S-equol again

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  • PinotQ
    Senior Member
    • May 2010
    • 188

    #61
    Vred, I believe your research on this is very accurate. Not sure about its anti-inflammatory effects but S-equol is a powerful antioxidant. One property of S-equol that has not gotten much attention with respect to hairloss is that in addition to the fact that it binds to and sequesters DHT, it also binds to the estrogen B receptor. This is one of the reasons that it reduces wrinkles and promotes collagen in the skin. Interestingly, the patent application I referred to in an earlier post also claims that the estrogen mimicking action of s-equol helps promote hair growth as there are many estrogen b receptors in the hair follicle. I am still researching this but there is conflicting research on whether estrogen promotes or retards hair growth. In mice, estrogen definitely shuts down anagen in a reversible manner. However, in humans the clinical evidence seems to support the fact that it promotes anagen. I can post some research articles if anyone is interested.

    Comment

    • vred
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2013
      • 12

      #62
      Originally posted by PinotQ
      Vred, I believe your research on this is very accurate. Not sure about its anti-inflammatory effects but S-equol is a powerful antioxidant. One property of S-equol that has not gotten much attention with respect to hairloss is that in addition to the fact that it binds to and sequesters DHT, it also binds to the estrogen B receptor. This is one of the reasons that it reduces wrinkles and promotes collagen in the skin. Interestingly, the patent application I referred to in an earlier post also claims that the estrogen mimicking action of s-equol helps promote hair growth as there are many estrogen b receptors in the hair follicle. I am still researching this but there is conflicting research on whether estrogen promotes or retards hair growth. In mice, estrogen definitely shuts down anagen in a reversible manner. However, in humans the clinical evidence seems to support the fact that it promotes anagen. I can post some research articles if anyone is interested.
      Yes PinotQ please post, I'd love to see them.

      I'm not saying S Equol is the cure, but it might be close.

      What I am saying is that we should be looking at all options. This forum is a very powerful medium for the centralizing of information and testing treatments. S Equol so far has a great safety profile with solid science backing it up. This is the first time it is available to the public and I hate to see it dismissed as "tried and doesn't work" based on some false companies who claimed to produce it in the past.

      As far as the question of "Well if it works, why hasn't "Big Pharma" produced it?". My guess would be that I don't believe S Equol is patent-able. You can patent the manufacturing process, but not the natural molecule. So if there's not literally billions of dollars to be made, pharma is just not interested.

      I'm telling you guys, this is really at least worth a shot to seriously look at. No real downside right?

      Comment

      • UK_
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2011
        • 2744

        #63
        A controlled double blind study reveals S-Equol to be effective in curing hair loss and turning NW7 > NW1.

        Plans to release the product have been made, however researchers and business leaders agree it is appropriate to leave a pointless 5 year gap between now and release date just to piss everyone off:

        Hate that you're losing your hair? Dr. Nancy Snyderman reports on a new treatment that might allow you to grow new locks.

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        • vred
          Junior Member
          • Feb 2013
          • 12

          #64
          Originally posted by UK_
          A controlled double blind study reveals S-Equol to be effective in curing hair loss and turning NW7 > NW1.

          Plans to release the product have been made, however researchers and business leaders agree it is appropriate to leave a pointless 5 year gap between now and release date just to piss everyone off:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V64ht1r8APo

          I'm really trying to understand the basis of your sarcasm. No, S Equol has not been tried for hair loss.

          So why bash the thread? When it comes out and if it works, would you not use it? Probably.

          So why discourage the testing of a possible treatment simply based on your incorrect opinions? I don't get it.

          Comment

          • vred
            Junior Member
            • Feb 2013
            • 12

            #65
            .................

            Comment

            • brooks1089
              Junior Member
              • Nov 2012
              • 12

              #66
              I second vred. It's understandable that anyone on this forum would be skeptical, but your negativity isn't very inviting.

              I would imagine S equol would only serve to maintain, if it even works. No one is saying this would bring a nw7 back to nw1. This isn't some miracle cure to regrow hair, it's a possible alternative to fin.

              Comment

              • PinotQ
                Senior Member
                • May 2010
                • 188

                #67
                You may be correct vred about only the manufacturing process being patent-able as opposed to s-equol itself, although note that Lund, Setchall, et al has tried to patent s-equol in the application referred to above. It would seem that since s-equol is a naturally occuring substance that it would be hard to patent. And brooks1089.............I agree that s-equol is a maintenance possibilty with a possible bump rather than a regrowth vehicle. What we know for sure is that s-equol neutralizes DHT. What we don't know is whether we can take enough or apply it in a way that has any effect, let alone halts MPB.

                Here is some of the estrogen research

                Just add www to plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0040124

                Just add www to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15591132

                Just add http:// to faculty.washington.edu/andchien/PDFs/HuBio/estrogen.pdf

                If you take the time to read these you will see estrogen definitely induces catagen and retards anagen in mice; that this process seems to occur thru estrogen receptor A and not B; and that it may not have a negative effect in humans. I don't think this is a negative for s-equol since it only acts on estrogen receptor b, even if estrogen does have a negative effect in humans. The fact that s-equol doesn't seem to have a negative effect on hair in Asians would seem to back this up. Any thoughts on this would be welcome.

                Comment

                • PinotQ
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2010
                  • 188

                  #68
                  I have done a little more research on the effect of estrogens on hair growth. It is a very complicated subject, the research of which underscores just how complex the process of hair growth is. The purpose of my trying to understand how estrogen affects hair growth is because not only does s-equol bind DHT, it attaches to estrogen receptor B. See the s-equol website on the "About S-equol" tab:"When comparing their relative affinities to bind to the human estrogen receptor alpha (ERα) S-equol has only about 1 percent of the affinity possessed by 17-estradiol. S-equol has a stronger affinity for the human estrogen receptor beta (ERβ), yet this affinity is just 20 percent of estradiol's affinity for ERβ" Recapping some of what I said above, as I looked into this, I found that: 1) Estrogen has a reversible inhibitory effect on the anagen phase of hair growth 2) This sounds contrary to everything you might think given that women generally have much better hair than men 3) Although estrogen absolutely has an inhibitory effect on hair growth in mice, there is clinical evidence to the contrary in humans (http: and then add //faculty.washington.edu/andchien/PDFs/HuBio/estrogen.pdf) Exactly how these apparently conflictive findings could be explained is still open 4) The location of estrogen receptors (both A & B) vary from men to women and within areas of the scalp suggestive of the patterns that might be associated with MPB. 5) Even if estrogen does have an inhibitory effect in humans, estrogen receptor b agonists, where s-equol has its effect, apparently silence the negative effects of estrogen receptor A (http: and then add //www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15591132) "This suggests that, contrary to previous concepts, ER beta does indeed play a significant role in murine hair growth control: whereas the catagen-promoting properties of E2 are mediated via ER alpha, ER beta mainly may function as a silencer of ER alpha action in hair biology."

                  If I am interpreting all of this correctly, s-equol would appear to act in 2 specific ways, both of which would benefit hair maintenance/growth. Again, any commentary those knowledgeable in this area are welcome.

                  Comment

                  • clandestine
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 2005

                    #69
                    vred; Ignore UK, his posts are often pessimistic and baseless.

                    I appreciate your posts, and your interest in Equol as a potential viable treatment for hair loss.

                    Comment

                    • burtandernie
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 1568

                      #70
                      I think its safe to say by the popularity of all the alternative treatments that people in general are not crazy about the idea of taking propecia and I honestly dont blame them.
                      Every guy wants his hair given the choice, but taking a drug is a tough choice given the dangers of it regardless of evidence it has. That is why I havent tried it yet

                      Comment

                      • clandestine
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 2005

                        #71
                        For some of us it's not whether or not we want to take Propecia.

                        I've taken Propecia, and experienced sides. My body cannot tolerate Propecia. For this reason, I need to seek out other avenues to treat this condition.

                        Comment

                        • brunobald
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2013
                          • 172

                          #72
                          Any updates on this?

                          Is it possible to test if you naturally make Equol?

                          Cheers

                          Comment

                          • brunobald
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2013
                            • 172

                            #73


                            Found this document that describes how to test for Equol productions. Basicly you drink 500ml of soy milk for three days then test your urine for Equol. I wonder who has the equipment to do this.

                            Might be worth drinking 500ml of soy milk a day for a month and see if it reduces my scalp itch.

                            Comment

                            • PinotQ
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2010
                              • 188

                              #74
                              FYI For those who have been waiting for Nature Made to release their S-Equol product, it is still not available. However, a large vitamin manufacturer called Natures Sunshine has released an equol product called Equolibrium. Each capsule contains 6 mg of equol.

                              As you may recall, the lead researchers of equol over the past decade filed a patent: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100076071 which concerning dosage, states:

                              "Generally, a dose sufficient to produce a concentration of equol or active fragments thereof in the bloodstream of the recipient of at least about 0.2 mg equol per kg weight of the recipient and preferably at least about 0.5 mg/kg. The dose may be increased dramatically without incurring significant dose-limiting side effects to greater than about 10 mg/kg."

                              Dosage depends on bodyweight but for me, I calculate that to keep a relatively steady state of .5mg per kg of bodyweight of equol in my bloodstream, I need to take 8 capsules, 3 times per day given the half life of equol (about 8 hours). See http://www.naturalequol.com/pharmacokinetics.html "S-equol is rapidly absorbed after oral administration and rapidly excreted in urine, according to a pharmacokinetics evaluation of 12 healthy post-menopausal US women, including equol producers and non-equol producers. The average half-life, the time for plasma concentrations to decrease by 50 percent, was 7 to 8 hours." This will be an expensive experiment costing somewhere in the neighborhood of $3500 for 1 year but after many many years of success with propecia, which I am still, I am no longer winning the battle. Keep in mind this mainly a maintenance option. I will keep you posted.

                              Comment

                              • brooks1089
                                Junior Member
                                • Nov 2012
                                • 12

                                #75
                                Pinot>>> thanks for the update on s-equol. Although most don't seem to be interested I would really appreciate if you could provide updates for the s-equol treatment either here or by PM. Thanks!

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