ACell, a Current Review of Applications in Hair Transplant Surgery

[HairTalk]

I do seriously think that you dont want anything to work. If otherwise you wouldnt quote something, which says that plucked hairs dont grew back or have a smaller diameter.

So tell me one thing, you pluck a hair and insert it in the recipient area, now this exact same hair grows onger and cycles normal. HOW could this hair getting smaller in diameter if its the exact same plucked hair which grows longer like it would have in the donor area?

HOW is that even possible? How

I can accept your wide-eyed self-declared "optimism" (even if I feel it isn't based on very much), but it's perverse of you to suggest someone else actively seeks failure in this field simply because he doesn't share in your giddiness.

I believe, in early 2011, we still cannot confidently say plucked hairs will exhibit long-term growth in the recipient area; the only reason we all comfortably agree that transplanted follicular units will do so, is the procedures have been being performed for decades (even if specific techniques of extraction and placement have evolved). The clinical background simply does not yet exist in regard to plucking.

Is this to suggest we shouldn't try it out if we have reason to think things might work? Of course not. It is, however, to imply we should be wary and slow in raising our spirits too high about the prospect. If you want to balloon your hopes to the sky, fine; but it isn't fair to accuse people who show more reluctance, of being in favor of failure.

Ok ahm you gotta be kidding me right? There are millions of females who almost weekly pluck and epilept their legs, bikini zone and armpits and they still struggle with doing this until the end of their lifes. So its pretty pretty pretty obvious that plucked hairs come back.

Even people who suffer trichotillomania get their hair back after some time if they stop to pluck permanently, and what they do is far more extensive then pluck some hairs, let them grow back and pluck them again and use acell on donor side as well.

[...]

Of course they have the same charateristics, have you ever plucked your eye brows or nose hair? Its coming back exactly the same way as you plucked it. Hair doesnt forget about its characteristics only because you pluck it

Yes, many women (and probably quite a few more men than would admit) tweeze their eyebrows their whole lives, and, of course, this is because the hair comes back. (I think you mention the use of depilatories, but this has absolutely nothing to do with regeneration following plucking: depilatories dissolve the proteins that compose hair-shafts so the latter can be pulled off — the approach is more akin to shaving than to tweezing). However, I believe it's reasonably well-accepted the characteristics of hair can change with continual plucking (it may miniaturize, or altogether cease to come in). All this is anecdotal, as far as I know, but it does give credence to the thought you don't end up with a literally unaffected donor zone by plucking rather than using F.U.E.-extraction.

Now, even if they don't all come back, I am more comfortable than Dr. Cole appeared to be in his earlier posts in this thread, that most tweezed hairs will return properly. Dr. Cole posted a few pictures suggesting more stuff was pulled out with the hair as part of this surgical procedure than is removed with cosmetic tweezing, but Dr. Cooley replied he pulls out the hairs as would anyone else (i.e., for purposes of grooming), so I'm left hopeful the deleterious repercussions on a plucked donor-area could be kept minimal.

Why should i prove that it works? Why doesnt Dr Cole prove that it didnt work?

One sets out to prove what works and what is, not the reverse.

Finally, I'm curious to why you appear to be so reluctant to have anyone challenge the prospect of this succeeding. No one in this thread has stricken me as eager to watch this plan turn out to be a disaster or a waste of time. The doctors want to see it work, and the people who suffer from hair-loss — even if they're restricting themselves from celebrating just yet — would love it to. No one's against it; people are simply being cautious rather than unboundedly childish. I don't see why that lands on you as a bad thing.

[wolvie1985]

UK, please stop wasting our time with this "where is the controlled study science" nonsense. Yes, in a perfect world, Dr Cooley would have the millions of dollars in funding for such experiments like Merck and Pfizer does. But he doesn't. All he has is his observations and his word, which, based on his years of stellar reputation, we should all trust implicitly.

By your rationale, most hair transplant techniques should not be taken seriously either. You think there is "science" up to your standards for any other hair transplant procedures? You think there's double-blind controlled "science" behind tricho closures, certain FUE/FUT methods or the like? NO. There are only HT doctors across the world who share their knowledge and experiences and try to improve on them. What you and Dr. Cole are trying to do, I believe, with the greatest respect, is slow down the rate of progress and enthusiasm involved with plucking as it's only a matter of time before it becomes the new standard. Dr. Cole spent years and years to perfect his FUE technique, only to have it replaced by this new easier, less invasive system that provides for unlimited donor. In a way, I feel for him. But not so much after his blatant attempts to quash progress in the field to the benefit of his pocketbook and the expense of prospective patients.

[RichardDawkins]

Ok ahm you gotta be kidding me right? There are millions of females who almost weekly pluck and epilept their legs, bikini zone and armpits and they still struggle with doing this until the end of their lifes. So its pretty pretty pretty obvious that plucked hairs come back.

Even people who suffer trichotillomania get their hair back after some time if they stop to pluck permanently, and what they do is far more extensive then pluck some hairs, let them grow back and pluck them again and use acell on donor side as well.

I think people who suffer from trichotillomania dont use acell but get their hair back also.

Ahm i belive that Dr Hitzig also stated that they have to carefully look if the follicles (plucked hairs) are usable.... but why am i repeating this to you.

Of course they have the same charateristics, have you ever plucked your eye brows or nose hair? Its coming back exactly the same way as you plucked it. Hair doesnt forget about its characteristics only because you pluck it

You should ask this pvtpoint2000 guy cause he also stated that the plucked hairs grow in his scar.

Why should i prove that it works? Why doesnt Dr Cole prove that it didnt work?

No i wont copy and paste anything, thats your job, i refrain from doing so and share my personal believings.

[UK_]

Ok then if thats your opinion, then this is ok with me so to speak in your words "There wont be ever something that ill help us right?

I say even genetical predisposition can be altered to a benefit with the right ingridients.

Even Propecia can slow down hairloss and thats a stupid pill. And even Minox can slow it down and thats just "shampoo"

So why do you say that something drastical cant do something better?

Stem cells are still in baldie heads so give them a kickstart or something they can transform to and you got your result.

So explain to me WHY there is nothing and wont be nothing forever according to you? Where are your ideas based off?

I do seriously think that you dont want anything to work. If otherwise you wouldnt quote something, which says that plucked hairs dont grew back or have a smaller diameter.

So tell me one thing, you pluck a hair and insert it in the recipient area, now this exact same hair grows onger and cycles normal. HOW could this hair getting smaller in diameter if its the exact same plucked hair which grows longer like it would have in the donor area?

HOW is that even possible? How

What about damage to the hair follicle in both process and donor? Do you think out of say c2,000 plucked follicles that Acell will regenerate and repair damage to 100% of the plucked follicles to the exact specification of the preceding hair? On what clinical evidence can this assumption be made? You would need to check under a microscope every plucked hair for what damage has occured, if the hair/follicle has been damaged beyond the extent of it being a viable candidate in the recipient area - how can you rule out the impact that any damage will play in the scope of the natural regeneration of the follicle several months later in the donor region?

Nobody here is making assumptions regarding the patterns of growth/results of plucking hair but you, Dr Cole stated there is no evidence to suggest anything similar to the concept of autocloning works I or Dr Cole are not stating plucked hairs do not grow back, yet you cannot state that 100% of plucked hairs will grow back to the exact specification of the preceding hair. You also cannot state the diameter of that particular hair will be exactly the same, nor can I state that it will not be. You do not have that evidence, all that exists is anecdotal evidence in a handful of patients, that is not real solid scientific evidence per se. Yet all Dr Cole has stated, and all I have supported across the board of his statement is that the evidence does not exist. If you want to refute Dr Cole, please provide the evidence.... again... show me the science.

Until you can provide me with data on 20 - 100 patients in a controlled study I will support Dr Coles contention that no evidence exists to support the statement that this procedure works. There is still no evidence on a survival rate of 75% - if there is and I have missed this, please copy and paste it in your next post.

[RichardDawkins]

Ok then if thats your opinion, then this is ok with me so to speak in your words "There wont be ever something that ill help us right?

I say even genetical predisposition can be altered to a benefit with the right ingridients.

Even Propecia can slow down hairloss and thats a stupid pill. And even Minox can slow it down and thats just "shampoo"

So why do you say that something drastical cant do something better?

Stem cells are still in baldie heads so give them a kickstart or something they can transform to and you got your result.

So explain to me WHY there is nothing and wont be nothing forever according to you? Where are your ideas based off?

I do seriously think that you dont want anything to work. If otherwise you wouldnt quote something, which says that plucked hairs dont grew back or have a smaller diameter.

So tell me one thing, you pluck a hair and insert it in the recipient area, now this exact same hair grows onger and cycles normal. HOW could this hair getting smaller in diameter if its the exact same plucked hair which grows longer like it would have in the donor area?

HOW is that even possible? How

[UK_]

Okay - IT WORKS - is that what you wanna hear?

Do you seriously think I DONT want this to work?

What's "learning about my hair" gonna do anyway? If yr genetically predisposed to AA thats it - no amount of protein propecia potion pills books an B vitamins are gonna help you - there is barely anything in the field right now - we're banking on a few horses and I doubt any will reach the finish line - so dont assume im sitting here gleefully awaiting Histogen to wipe away the scorn of my hair loss.

And what's wrong with quoting Dr Cole? I believe his comment was an accurate one, please silence me by proving me wrong, show me the science.

By "AA" I meant Androgenic Alopecia not Alopecia Areata

[plopp]

Dr Hitzig,

Could you update us on the 'eyebrow patient'? Have you performed the procedure yet? If hairlines are a problem, wouldn't eyebrows be as well?

Thanks.

[UK_]

Btw its funny that you keep on trying to destroy everything and you have been registered since february :-) always thos funny coincidences here.

Do you mean Dr Cole who stated that plucked hairs never grew back? While the whole female world struggles with unwante hair :-)

"Uncontrollable wildfire"? Thats ridicolous, can you tell me which clinic you represent here?

You know, i f i were you i would highly get rid of the idea, that one time Histogen will fix you :-) i think thats what you are after, the magic pill or injection.

So my advice is, that you should learn more about your hair, how its working, and how its growing and where the essential key points lay within it characteristics.

But hey thats ok stick with your opinions and its good, but dont quote docs here, when you yourself dont have any clue about hairs or how they work, thank you

Okay - IT WORKS - is that what you wanna hear?

Do you seriously think I DONT want this to work?

What's "learning about my hair" gonna do anyway? If yr genetically predisposed to AA thats it - no amount of protein propecia potion pills books an B vitamins are gonna help you - there is barely anything in the field right now - we're banking on a few horses and I doubt any will reach the finish line - so dont assume im sitting here gleefully awaiting Histogen to wipe away the scorn of my hair loss.

And what's wrong with quoting Dr Cole? I believe his comment was an accurate one, please silence me by proving me wrong, show me the science.

[Gary Hitzig MD]

Plucked hairs do grow back!!!!

Also, plucked hairs do grow back!!!!
I proved this over 10 years ago in my original work.
When you pluck a large circular area in the donor region, it does not remain bald, but instead grows back fully. I have re-used these sites in more than one patient.
Talk with a female who tweezes her eyebrows.

[Gary Hitzig MD]

Keep the Faith

Hi Richard,

As we progress we will modify what we do and how we approach it. Sorry people think the cup is half empty but it is really turning out to be half full. Progress is made with slow safe deliberate steps and that is what we are trying.
As much as it is exciting that we are duplicating hair all over with ACell, the hairline is not the appropriate site. We need to adjust for this. The good news is that the hair is duplicating, not that we need to modify the technique using ACell.
Keep the Faith
GH

[RichardDawkins]

When did Dr Cole said that?

Btw its funny that you keep on trying to destroy everything and you have been registered since february :-) always thos funny coincidences here.

Do you mean Dr Cole who stated that plucked hairs never grew back? While the whole female world struggles with unwante hair :-)

Do you mena that Dr Cole who after this expressions become very quiet and showed a picture with blood vessels after a FUE.

"Uncontrollable wildfire"? Thats ridicolous, can you tell me which clinic you represent here?

You know, i f i were you i would highly get rid of the idea, that one time Histogen will fix you :-) i think thats what you are after, the magic pill or injection.

So my advice is, that you should learn more about your hair, how its working, and how its growing and where the essential key points lay within it characteristics.

Plucked single hairs, seem to be smaller in diamater because THEY ARE SINGLE HAIRS and not a group of hairs coming out of one follicle.

Oh and i take and give this pvtpoint2000 guy definetly more credit because he said that almost all of the plucked hairs grew in his scar.

But hey thats ok stick with your opinions and its good, but dont quote docs here, when you yourself dont have any clue about hairs or how they work, thank you

[UK_]

"There is no scientific data to prove a single conclusion you allude to. There is no evidence that the plucked hairs grow back at the same diameter as they were in the donor area. There is absolutely no evidence what so ever that anything similar to autoclonning occurs. Dr. Cooley performed no survival studies so there is no evidence that the survival rate is 75%. You seem to have a great deal of difficulty connecting the dots. Read my lips...Dr. Cooley presented no data what so ever to indicate that even a single viable plucked hair grew in both the donor area and the recipient area. I have no idea what your agenda is, but your conclusions are simply a leap of logic or hallucination. We all want to believe hair plucking works including myself, but no one can draw scientific conclusions based on faulty studies. Now, if you want to pull the Dr. Cooley card on me, feel free to have him give me a call or debate me on a forum. We’re not enemies or competitors. We’re colleagues who are both interested in making lives better. I welcome evidence that refutes my position simply because it will improve the possibilities for all individuals with hair loss. If it does not pan out, however, the impact on the finite donor area would be deleterious. Don’t count me to be on the bridge of that ship. In other words, show me the science."

Dr Cole.

The above comment remains an accurate one.

I am glad Dr Cole was here to douse the uncontrollable wildfire of optimism regarding Acell/Autocloning.

[gmonasco]

We should probably take the Histogen discussion over to the relevant thread:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=23616

[Bakez]

Actually lack of hype is probably a good thing when thinking about investment. Hype usually ends up over valuing everything, and investors have learnt the hard way (or should have) when dealing with hyped up industries or companies. IE they will be reluctant to put money into it

[Bakez]

Best case scenario for ACell:

In 1-2 years you might be able to get a 1000-1500 FUE transplant where all the extraction sites have no scarring whatsoever, and in maybe 50% of them a single hair grows back where the 2-3 graft used to be.

So essentially you might be able to get a 1 small FUE transplant where you can literally still do the sides and back to grade 0.5 and nobody will be able to tell unless they come up and start examining your head after it just got cut to grade 0.5.

That is the realistic scenario for the layman, based on the evidence in this thread and without hope judging my vision.