Further Follicept civil conversation

[serenemoon]

How do you know he's not on Finasteride ? You don't. Devon growing hair would definitely be a good begin and would get me interested, but still very very far from being convinced. The science is not on their side (igf-1 proven not to work on humans in previous trials), so if it would work now, I'd need way more proof than somebody at their office growing hair .... But yes, it would be a start.

Maybe StayThick will put doubts to rest then? He is a long term forum user, and yeah we could accuse him of things too, but then again, I think chances are very low there.

[Afghanwig]

Maybe StayThick will put doubts to rest then? He is a long term forum user, and yeah we could accuse him of things too, but then again, I think chances are very low there.

I don't see much difference between Staythick and Follicept. He's been supporting follicept all along, even said we shouldnt care about lighting in photo's and other weird remarks like that. So no, I don't trust him at all. Hellouser, now that would be a trustworthy forum member. Or Swooping. If both Hellouser and Swooping would grow hair, I'd buy this product the same day ! But this Staythick guy, I don't care much about. I wouldn't see any difference between Devon growing hair or StayThick growing hair.

[serenemoon]

I don't see much difference between Staythick and Follicept. He's been supporting follicept all along, even said we shouldnt care about lighting in photo's and other weird remarks like that. So no, I don't trust him at all. Hellouser, now that would be a trustworthy forum member. Or Swooping. If both Hellouser and Swooping would grow hair, I'd buy this product the same day ! But this Staythick guy, I don't care much about.

Nah, he has been skeptical multiple times. But okay, if hellouser and swooping growing hair is what you need in order to buy it, so be it.

[Afghanwig]

Nah, he has been skeptical multiple times. But okay, if hellouser and swooping growing hair is what you need in order to buy it, so be it.

Most definitely. If the science would be on their side, I probably might buy it sooner. But since we know IGF-1 didnt do anything in previous human trails, via injections, it would make no sense at all that it suddenly would work now, because of a different vehicle, that's total nonsense of course. So yeah, I'd need to see some really credible proof.

[serenemoon]

Most defintely. If the science would be on their side, I'd probably might buy it sooner. But since we know IGF-1 didnt do anything in previous human trails, via injections, it would make no sense at all that it suddenly would work now, because of a different vehicle, that's total nonsense of course. So yeah, I'd need to see some really credible proof.

You do know the frequency is also really different, right? it is 12 doses for one month with Follicept, which has NEVER been tried before. And when on earth did a trial directly inject IGF-1 to the head? I wanna see this study. LOL.

[Swooping]

Yeah because if we had seen results by now, you all would definitely not be accusing them of being a scam.

This will never be a viable potential treatment. Sorry to break your dreams.

Devon honestly I'll give you one sincere tip at least. Stop with these subjects. You need subjects who are suffering from telogen effluvium (TE). Women mostly have to cope with that. In theory your product has way way more potential in relation to the TE pathology. Read "Resting no more: re-defining telogen, the maintenance stage of the hair growth cycle (2014)"

http://s14.postimg.org/fqknab2tt/gffactors.jpg

I think you are smart enough to understand why it would have at least some theoretical merit to the pathology of TE. Especially as IGF-1 stimulates the AKT pathway. Or were you guys already going to do this?

Btw Devon why would I shame you? You are at the forefront of the mind of Dr. Hsu. He clearly lacks rational thought in my opinion. Furthermore he calls himself a expert in hair follicle biology. But if you are going to compare the fuzzy rat to be similar to the pathology of AGA then he is far from a expert. Or he lacks rational thought, it's that simple. Smart in textbooks, but clearly flying in the clouds. Anyway if I were you I would start looking for people who are suffering from TE, at least that gives you some chance to prove something.

[Afghanwig]

You do know the frequency is also really different, right? it is 12 doses for one month with Follicept, which has NEVER been tried before. And when on earth did a trial directly inject IGF-1 to the head? I wanna see this study. LOL.

Doses only matter so much. If something is effective it most likely would show results on lower doses too. It never did.

[serenemoon]

Doses only matter so much. If something is effective it most likely would show results on lower doses too. It never did.

I just checked, zero studies on IGF-1 directly being injected to the scalp.

[Afghanwig]

I just checked, zero studies on IGF-1 directly being injected to the scalp.

Histogen injected, Arvid Armani concluded in 2011 that IGF-1 was the growth factor least associated with hairgrowth and then there are tons of people who tried it in combo with dermarolling/needling for example and some who even tried with real needles. Never any noteworthy results.

[serenemoon]

Histogen injected, Arvid Armani concluded in 2011 that IGF-1 was the growth factor least associated with hairgrowth and then there are tons of people who tried it in combo with dermarolling/needling for example and some who even tried with real needles. Never any noteworthy results.

Histogen works. Sure, not massive amounts of hair, but it was also one shot injection, not 12 doses.

I see no mention of Arvid Armani or any of his studies online, so I can't comment on that. IF the argument is that IGF-1 is present in lowest numbers, that means nothing. It may be more powerful than other growth factor present in much larger numbers, it may upregulate other growth factors which is perhaps why the other growth factors are much larger in number. I am not saying this is necessarily the case,but IGF-1 being the growth factor "least associated" doesn't mean that it is not the most powerful/most impactful. How is "association" defined by Arvid Armani? By numbers/percentage of growth factor present? By some other factor? That is the question here.

People trying it with dermarolling and needling means nothing. Did they use real IGF-1? Was it in a stable formulation? Those things matter. If one uses those anecdotal stories to say that IGF-1 does not work, then why shouldn't one use anecdotal stories of bodybuilders injecting IGF-1 and growing hair to say that IGF-1 does work?

[Arashi]

Histogen works. Sure, not massive amounts of hair, but it was also one shot injection, not 12 doses.

I see no mention of Arvid Armani or any of his studies online, so I can't comment on that. IF the argument is that IGF-1 is present in lowest numbers, that means nothing. It may be more powerful than other growth factor present in much larger numbers, it may upregulate other growth factors which is perhaps why the other growth factors are much larger in number. I am not saying this is necessarily the case,but IGF-1 being the growth factor "least associated" doesn't mean that it is not the most powerful/most impactful. How is "association" defined by Arvid Armani? By numbers/percentage of growth factor present? By some other factor? That is the question here.

People trying it with dermarolling and needling means nothing. Did they use real IGF-1? Was it in a stable formulation? Those things matter. If one uses those anecdotal stories to say that IGF-1 does not work, then why shouldn't one use anecdotal stories of bodybuilders injecting IGF-1 and growing hair to say that IGF-1 does work?

These growthfactors have been along for quite a while. People tried all kinds of combo's, nothing worked. Yeah you keep saying that they did it wrong, it was unstable or somebody accidentally switched their bottle or what more excuses. Fact is that this is highly unlikely to work. Not 100% impossible maybe, I'll give you that, but highly unlikely. Which means I won't trust a guy at some company alone. I'd need way more proof. That was my whole point.

[Afghanwig]

Histogen works. Sure, not massive amounts of hair, but it was also one shot injection, not 12 doses.

I see no mention of Arvid Armani or any of his studies online, so I can't comment on that. IF the argument is that IGF-1 is present in lowest numbers, that means nothing. It may be more powerful than other growth factor present in much larger numbers, it may upregulate other growth factors which is perhaps why the other growth factors are much larger in number. I am not saying this is necessarily the case,but IGF-1 being the growth factor "least associated" doesn't mean that it is not the most powerful/most impactful. How is "association" defined by Arvid Armani? By numbers/percentage of growth factor present? By some other factor? That is the question here.

People trying it with dermarolling and needling means nothing. Did they use real IGF-1? Was it in a stable formulation? Those things matter. If one uses those anecdotal stories to say that IGF-1 does not work, then why shouldn't one use anecdotal stories of bodybuilders injecting IGF-1 and growing hair to say that IGF-1 does work?

Ok you win. This will work then.

[Afghanwig]

Just saw the pictures on their website, lol, what a joke, they're shooting pictures in all angles, see that guy with his week1,2,3 pictures. What are we supposed to do with that ?

[bigentries]

You also called Pilox "dubious", etc. when vraf posted his honest results (which weren't even remotely impressive). Why would a "Scammer company" be posting pictures with very "vanilla" results... and in an amateur picture-style with toilets in the background? Especially when we've seen how good the Pilox photography is?


Simply to point out that you have just as BAD a track record at spotting scams as you do a GOOD track record. People should realize that you have wrongfully bashed companies before... and they should take everything you post with a grain of salt.

LOL. They were not impressive? I can find post from you were you said vrafs pics were impressive. Why did you changed your mind now? I remember you did the same crap with Chlorine and CG210

Seriously dude, you are the one with a horrible bad record, Arashi is like a saint to bald guys. You are the perfect mark for scammer. You get way too emotionally attached to anything that gives you any hope

Let Arashi do his magic. Why do you love to argue so much when all the scams that you have pushed just end up burning you? I think you should learn your lesson by now, you are a poison to every community you join

[GSD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XklcMnm5x3k

the real trials starts 1.7