Further Follicept civil conversation

[Swooping]

I have seen more hair growth from guys who were massaging their head with a boar bristle brush. But hey, still some time left!

[sdsurfin]

You can see the same amount of vellus on week 0, just different light and angle and camera focus, devon had a little longer hairs and some locks of hairs more straight on the scalp, we all know what is real regrowth, on july we will have an answer

honestly i don't understand at all why they didn't buy a simple crap 20$ usb camera, it's not trichoscan but much better then the pics we have now

The angle is different but it does not look the same to me. looks more vellus for sure, and devon says he can definitely see it in person. also devon and subject 2 have areas that definitely look more full.

I think this has maybe a 20 percent chance of working at best, but we will see. I think one thing is for sure, mice grow hair way easier than people do.

[Arashi]

Subject 5 definitely has a lot more vellus at this point

That's just a different angle and different lighting. If you look at the 3rd photo for week 0, to the right part of the bald spot, you see the vellus hairs too if you look well.

Really, these photo's are horribly amateurish. If you're not going to use trichoscanning (or even a $20 USB microscope would do) then the least thing you should try to do is get the angles and lighting the same. Angle + lighting make all the difference.

[Arashi]

I think this has maybe a 20 percent chance of working at best

Hehe, finally sdsurfin is landing on the ground. Although, 20% chance of working, make that 0.2%.

[Hemo]

The angle is different but it does not look the same to me. looks more vellus for sure, and devon says he can definitely see it in person. also devon and subject 2 have areas that definitely look more full.

I think this has maybe a 20 percent chance of working at best, but we will see. I think one thing is for sure, mice grow hair way easier than people do.

LOL no one cares about what he can see in person. If they're just going to say "we can see it in person" then there's no point in even posting results. This is one of the shoddiest trials I've ever seen; if they wanted to prove effectiveness then they should have just left the forum, ran their BS trials and come back with results. They're not building hype by posting inconsistent shots and telling us they see crap in person; instead, they're making people realize how poorly thought out and designed their research is (the fact that they have a subject in Alaska right now where they can't monitor anything or receive updates sort of confirms this).

[NeedHairASAP]

The angle is different but it does not look the same to me. looks more vellus for sure, and devon says he can definitely see it in person. also devon and subject 2 have areas that definitely look more full.

I think this has maybe a 20 percent chance of working at best, but we will see. I think one thing is for sure, mice grow hair way easier than people do.

You start the post off with a very "hopeful" tone and then end it with saying their is a 20% chance it works lol

[nameless]

Subject 5 definitely has a lot more vellus at this point, and from what I can tell both devon and subject 2 have improved their hair cover at the edges of the bald areas. most people are reporting more vellus hair. Whether it will go beyond this is still up in the air. they might try different dosages too.

sdsurfin, Devon and co have the idea that since the mouse kept growing new hair even after they stopped giving treatment to the mouse that means the same thing should happen with humans but I think that idea is highly suspect. Mice and humans are not the same. Mice hair and human hair are not the same. A quick boost may be sufficient to make mouse hair grow and keep growing but that's not necessarily true for humans.

Plus mouse hair growth may be synchronic so once one mouse hair starts growing they all start growing BUT human hair is different. In humans, different hairs start growing at different points in time. Now let's say that IGF-1 does stimulate hair growth...but each follicle has to be exposed to the IGF-1 when it's time for each specific follicle. If this is the case then you have to keep applying the IGF-1 because maybe it's too early for some follicles to receive the IGF-1 so they can't use it to grow hair yet. You have to keep applying the IGF-1 because different follicles become "ready" to receive the IGF-1 after other follicles become "ready".

Do you understand?

[StayThick]

P

No results worth noting thus far. If this treatment works hopefully we'll see some early responders by the 2 month mark.

StayThick sorry to hear about the sudden shed, hopefully it's a good sign. Did you apply the treatment again yesterday and if so how did you respond?

I did apply treatment last night and nothing out of the ordinary occurred. I certainly did not shed hairs at the rate I did the treatment prior nor did I experience the itch. Granted, I still did lose hair, but mostly due to the stickiness of the gel and it catching hair I presume were already dying. But again, nothing like the hair that was coming down a few days prior.

To be honest, if this does make it to market and people use it in areas where there is actually hair, then be prepared for it to look like utter sh*t. This is a PM application only IMHO. I hate using gel anyway, but I can assure you this won't do any favors in the appearance of thickness.

I'm not expecting much from this in all honesty at this point and from what I've been seeing on the other subjects, but it is still early, especially for me. Also, as long as it doesn't make my hair worse I'll be continuing until my last 12th dose. Trial and error I guess, but I do appreciate how open Devon and Dr. Hsu have been throughout the short period of my trial. They have a theory and are trying to run with it right now....time will tell if their theory has any real substance, but I respect what they are trying to do.

Chat soon fellas'

[Koga]

Why is everyone being so negative and disrespectful? Does anyone still believe that follicept is a scam? If not, then why all this negativity? It sounds almost like you guys wish they fail. Weird.

Personally, I wish this works, but I think the chances are slim. But one thing I do want for sure is that if it does fail, that they continue and try different doses, different drugs, and just keep trying. Does anyone not want that? Everyone cries about how no one cares about hairloss, how no companies are doing anything. But when someone does, and updates us on it, everyone just craps all over it. Like complaining about how "amateurish" their trial is. It's an unofficial trial for family and friends, and they said they want to see terminal hairs. How hard is that to understand? I for one don't want to wait for an official clinical trial for god knows how many years before we even know if it works or not.

Sometimes I feel like some of us let this hairloss get to us too much. If you want to complain, complain about all the other companies and scientists that are doing nothing, or the people that are actively scamming people.

[hellouser]

i have seen more hair growth from guys who were massaging their head with a boar bristle brush. But hey, still some time left!

lol!!

[efedrez]

P

I did apply treatment last night and nothing out of the ordinary occurred. I certainly did not shed hairs at the ra" j'ai la peau douce...!"te I did the treatment prior nor did I experience the itch. Granted, I still did lose hair, but mostly due to the stickiness of the gel and it catching hair I presume were already dying. But again, nothing like the hair that was coming down a few days prior.

To be honest, if this does make it to market and people use it in areas where there is actually hair, then be prepared for it to look like utter sh*t. This is a PM application only IMHO. I hate using gel anyway, but I can assure you this won't do any favors in the appearance of thickness.

I'm not expecting much from this in all honesty at this point and from what I've been seeing on the other subjects, but it is still early, especially for me. Also, as long as it doesn't make my hair worse I'll be continuing until my last 12th dose. Trial and error I guess, but I do appreciate how open Devon and Dr. Hsu have been throughout the short period of my trial. They have a theory and are trying to run with it right now....time will tell if their theory has any real substance, but I respect what they are trying to do.

Chat soon fellas'

Great to hear you are not experiencing further crazy shedding and decided to continue with the trial
Are you going to publish pictures? There has been some controversy with the ones taken by follicept so it would be nice if you could try to keep the same angle and lighting if you take some
Be prepared for criticism no matter how well your pictures are taken but try not to pay too much attention to it. Most of us are grateful for having someone from the forum in the trail

[Thinning@30]

Why is everyone being so negative and disrespectful? Does anyone still believe that follicept is a scam? If not, then why all this negativity? It sounds almost like you guys wish they fail. Weird.

I've been skeptical of Follicept, but I would love to be wrong about them. So far, they've done a number of things that make it difficult to take them seriously. They made bold claims regarding effectiveness that so far haven't been born out by their informal trial. If they didn't start out with bold claims and just said they didn't know if it would work, but literature indicated it might and the mouse results were promising, I think most people here would have welcomed the openness and the chance to have a dialog with a company researching a hair loss treatment.

Their current trial is informal, but they still don't seem to be going about it in a very methodical way. It could be growing vellus hair or not, but how is anyone supposed to know? That combined with the hype makes it hard to believe they're just going to close up or go back to the drawing board if the informal trial doesn't show results. Plus, their website already talks about a timeline for selling the product.

They're also actively trying to get people to vote for them for some type of startup award, when they haven't even demonstrated results yet. It's like we're being used.

[FrenchNewbie]

Where are the photos StayThick? Are you kidding us? No photo on week 0! It seems you just took your Follicept for free and post a photo of your sink as a "proof" of a shedding. Big joke.

Please post your first photos as you promised. You were an opponent of Follicept first. Then Devon opened his door. Dr. Hsu does the same thing. You've publicly change your mind. And you are posting nothing. Hey man, you were speaking about a lot of photos... we have nothing. And we will wait what? We need the week 0 to date a possible progression by ourselves. You will not come on week 7 to say: "this photo was on week 0", no one will trust you.

PS: And i add one thing. I think you took a product before Follicept. You don't say it. It's a shame. You live a shedding cause of this product (maybe Minox, or Fin). I personnally think you are a lier.

[Hemo]

Where are the photos StayThick? Are you kidding us? No photo on week 0! It seems you just took your Follicept for free and post a photo of your sink as a "proof" of a shedding. Big joke.

Please post your first photos as you promised. You were an opponent of Follicept first. Then Devon opened his door. Dr. Hsu does the same thing. You've publicly change your mind. And you are posting nothing. Hey man, you were speaking about a lot of photos... we have nothing. And we will wait what? We need the week 0 to date a possible progression by ourselves. You will not come on week 7 to say: "this photo was on week 0", no one will trust you.

PS: And i add one thing. I think you took a product before Follicept. You don't say it. It's a shame. You live a shedding cause of this product (maybe Minox, or Fin). I personnally think you are a lier.

As much of a joke as their trial is, FrenchNewbie's correct - you agreed to be a part of the trial but continue to avoid posting pics. What's the issue?

[bananana]

Why is everyone being so negative and disrespectful? Does anyone still believe that follicept is a scam? If not, then why all this negativity? It sounds almost like you guys wish they fail. Weird.

Personally, I wish this works, but I think the chances are slim. But one thing I do want for sure is that if it does fail, that they continue and try different doses, different drugs, and just keep trying. Does anyone not want that? Everyone cries about how no one cares about hairloss, how no companies are doing anything. But when someone does, and updates us on it, everyone just craps all over it. Like complaining about how "amateurish" their trial is. It's an unofficial trial for family and friends, and they said they want to see terminal hairs. How hard is that to understand? I for one don't want to wait for an official clinical trial for god knows how many years before we even know if it works or not.

Sometimes I feel like some of us let this hairloss get to us too much. If you want to complain, complain about all the other companies and scientists that are doing nothing, or the people that are actively scamming people.

+2 (my dog barked)