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Please friends, do not respond to Arashi. He continue and he will never stop trolling if you respond. It's a waste of time. He didn't understand the warning from moderation. I think he want to see this topic close. 50 pages with the same arguments, we have to stop with him.
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I wonder how Follicept's treatment might work in combo with this treatment:
Maybe do one treatment in the morning and the other in the evening. Keep in mind that IGF-1 is a KEY factor in hair growth and Wnt is a key factor in hair growth. If you did one in the morning and one in the other in the evening you would be getting two of the most important growth factors into the follicles.Comment
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Ahah thx you but I AM european and basically i eat only cheese lol, i tried to order some times from US and japan, for cosmetics is like a nightmare 99% they block it for months, even tshirt and eletronic can stay there for weeks and weeks then they send you a mail and a call, **** them i just order thing from europe, there is a new regulation between usa and europe so MAYBE things will be easier soonComment
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can someone please do me a huge favor and link me to the proper description of the Andenogen I should buy.. there are like a 100 different kinds and I'm very lost. Also, does anyone else recommend this treatment, and do you think it will be a better idea to just wait for Follicept before messing with new treatments (I have never tried anything yet). Please helpComment
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The wnt pathway and growth factors do not function independently. all of these things are tied together chemically. Both of these treatments show promise though, and my personal hunch is that a combination of a couple of new treatments is going to constitute the next good way to maintain hair in the near future.I wonder how Follicept's treatment might work in combo with this treatment:
Maybe do one treatment in the morning and the other in the evening. Keep in mind that IGF-1 is a KEY factor in hair growth and Wnt is a key factor in hair growth. If you did one in the morning and one in the other in the evening you would be getting two of the most important growth factors into the follicles.
Arashi-
a) nothing has happened to me. I remain objective. Did you take reading comprehension classes from swooping? I can't believe I have to further explain this. I have no certainty that follicept's treatment will work. You might be right again about the usefulness and it might be a flop. That being said, I now have talked to follicept's team individually and personally and I am 100 percent certain that they are not scammers. The idea that they might be is uneducated and inane, and if you can't decipher that for yourself then I can't help you. I don't have time to debate stupidities. The fact that there have been a lot of charlatans on here does not logically mean that these guys are at all the same. Did you think Dr. Gardner was a scammer just because he was on here sharing his research? These guys have a startup, they stumbled on a potentially awesome approach to treating hair loss, and they welcomed our input because they see the value in working with patients. I can tell you that they have considered leaving you guys in the dark, because these threads become ridiculous and insulting. They are here to help out, and they know that people on here will be a good gauge to see whether this thing works or not.
b) I would much rather talk about the science of this with dr. hsu, who has a harvard degree, than with you. I also have no interest in addressing your baiting comments about the non disclosure form. Ask Devon if you think I'm lying.
c) There's plenty of research on IGF-1 acting to promote anagen and hair growth at the dermal papillae. I cited tons of articles earlier in this thread when swooping was hassling me, or you can simply google them. I have no time to go back and dig them up. You're correct, There is no article stating that IGF-1 grows tons of new follicles. IGF-1 has never been tested for that purpose or been tested the way follicept is using it, except by dr. hsu on mice that are meant to mimic bald human skin. However, from the research I've done there's no doubt in my mind that IGF-1 plays a major role in hair growth and cycling. Whether it can stand alone as a great treatment is yet to be seen. I myself sent Dr. Hsu a lot of questions and I was pretty confused about the way that IGF-1 works, and its relationship to androgens. He explained a lot to me and Im not sure what is legit to disclose and what is not, so i have to leave it at that.
Again, I can't tell you everything about what follicept is thinking or why they think this will work, but it is based on very real observations and insights by some very experienced people. If you are basing your understanding of these pathways on swooping's words and random splattering of unrelated publications, then again I can't help you. The guy has zero reading comprehension or scientific background, and just naysays because he personally decided on a hunch that it won't work. He also is not privy to how this became of interest to follicept or what the mechanisms behind their approach are. I'm not saying this approach will definitely work, because human testing is crucial, but I think it has a more than a decent chance. I also think that it will take a lot of further testing, and though Dr Hsu believes IGF-1 is the lynchpin and simplicity is best, I personally am excited to see what they could do down the road. The doctor is definitely interested in other key pathways that involve hair loss, as well as testing on humans safely and asap, and he's definitely the kind of researcher that we want to see take an interest in this problem. Also he had alopecia areata so I think he feels something of the discomfort of losing hair as well.
I very much believe that hair cell replication is not as far off as most would believe (christiano recently stated that she's helping to start a new company that deals with implanting new HFs) and that it is the future of hair treatment. However, things like follicept could also prove very useful, and could also act as an adjunct therapy to cell based approaches, which will likely need to be supplemented due to the inhospitable balding scalp environment. Growth factors, as well as the wnt and b catenin pathways, are the body's keys to this regulation. We now have follicept targeting the protein/gene aspect of hair loss, we have SM addressing the ant pathway, kythera addressing the pgd2 angle, and hopefully a safer anti androgen on the way, so in my view, good things are bound to come sooner rather than later. Hair loss and medicine in general went through a pretty dead phase for the past couple of decades, but now they really do know quite a lot about what makes hair and cells tick, and with that knowledge comes progress. Also look up a company called follicum, they are using a modified bone protein to affect the factors that skin cells put out in order to both grow hair and stop unwanted hair growth. Could also be a very promising treatment, though they are just starting trials.Comment
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Guys this is derailing the thread by posting these questions about un-related topics. Please keep this thread related to follicept.
But I'll give a quick piece of advise to anybody wondering. Never wait for future treatments, get on FDA approved drugs as soon as possible and when future treatments come to market then you can decide if they are more effective than the current treatments.Comment
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I recommend using whatever we know works now. There's no guarantee follicept will succeed and both minoxidil and adenogen have been shown to have similar efficacy, which is pretty good for some people. In my experience adenogen is no miracle cure, but i don't seem to be losing much hair on it. basically what the trials on adenosine stated. You can use both adenogen and minox if you want, definitely give minox a try since it is cheap and works for a lot of people to maintain. It gave me raccoon eyes which is why I stopped. Lipogaine i think is a bit gentler with the sides for whatever reason. I don't personally recommend taking fin, I think it's a dangerous drug, but if you want to go down that route and it doesn't give you noticeable sides then thats another functional option until something better emerges.Comment
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just go on amazon and find the adenogen hair tonic. not the shampoo, though i suppose you could try that too. Also, stayhopeful, i highly highly highly recommend you get a therapist. The way you post on here is a huge red flag that your mental health is not being addressed properly. Losing hair when you're young is no fun, but you need to find confidence and happiness despite life's misfortunes, and a professional will help you do that. there are much worse things that can and probably will happen to you down the road. hair is nothing. I have many friends who lost their hair young and none of them acted like you're acting, they all continued to live happy and useful lives. Science moves slow and chances are that you might still lose all your hair, and you need to be ok with that. please find help. balding is a tough thing, and the best thing you can do is take care of your brain and your outlook, and love yourself no matter what anyone thinks, it is the only good solution to this problem at the moment, and we never know if treatments will pan out in time for us.Comment
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The great sdsurfin who calls himself "smart". That says enough. Indeed he lost his mind, but did he ever have one is my question? It's cringe worthy to see sdsurfin talk. Did you learn that all from Dr. Hsu what you just told in your last two posts? You make Follicept look even more bad to be honest. You literally have no clue what you are talking about. Also you have a tendency to promise much to the people here, but when you are asked for evidence you never show it.
Stop dreaming guys. This isn't going to come close to minoxidil. I'll give you that 100%. Every hair biologist would laugh at the thought that this is going to even approach minoxidil in efficiency. This isn't even to grow you cosmetically valuable hair.
LOL. Just no comment.sdsurfin: except by dr. hsu on mice that are meant to mimic bald human skin.Comment
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LOL said by someone who don't even read the source of what he post, who think he can teach real doc how injection works
You need a therapist, a good one too, you never understood and will never understand nothing about aga, you can impress some noob ignorant ineducated kid here with some link to korean shop igf seller and publications about igf blood level, the rest of us will just have a good laught rotfl
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A very strong ad hominem to make me feel what, insecure? Oh boy, guys like you are the ones who make my day. Little do you know that with such statements you make yourself even make more ridicilous and discredit follicept their team/product even more.LOL said by someone who don't even read the source of what he post, who think he can teach real doc how injection works
You need a therapist, a good one too, you never understood and will never understand nothing about aga, you can impress some noob ignorant ineducated kid here with some link to korean shop igf seller and publications about igf blood level, the rest of us will just have a good laught rotfl
Chapeau!
By the way, do you know what the beauty is of it all? Time will show who has it on the right end. Currently I have that, until it's proven otherwise by independent evidence. That's how science works, sorry. We'll see who will have the last laugh "Keki".Comment
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IGF-1 Medical textbook resarch
Gentlemen,
I’ve been a lurker on this forum and I wanted to share some details from a medical textbook that I was going through last day in preparation for my upcoming exams. I’m an M.D. student at the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada. My area of intended specialization is in Dermatology.
Coincidentally, I happened to come upon a section on Genetics and IGF-1 in my exam review readings. The primary author of the textbook is Dr. Jerry Shapiro , co-author is Nina Otenberg.
[Author/Physician/ Researcher Introduction:]
By way of background, Dr. Shapiro is a renowned hair restoration surgeon and a hair loss researcher. He is one of the few doctors who happens to be affiliated with the public hair research and skin institute at the University of British Columbia’s medical school, one of Canada’s pre-eminent medical institutions. In addition to being a practicing hair restoration surgeon and doctor, he serves at the NYU – Langone Clinical Center and UBC- Vancouver. Dr. Shapiro mixes teaching, research and diagnosis all in one.
Dr. Shapiro’s research is heavily “lab based” and he is constantly researching at UBC on hair follicle biology. Upon closer research, it appears he is the advising physician for Replicel and their RCH-01 trials. Moreover, he is conducting double-blind placebo controlled clinical trials (the first of their kind) on PRP to “validate” if the hype around PRP growth factors is true or not. (Note: No double-blind , placebo controlled studies on PRP and Androgenic Alopecia exists to date)
To date, Dr. Shapiro’s stance has been tailored to traditional FDA approved drugs minoxidil and finasteride to treat male pattern baldness. At the last consult, he discouraged use of PRP until further scientific evidence accumulates via double-blind, placebo controlled studies.
IGF-1 is a key part of PRP and one of many growth factors released by PRP, it is a key area of Dr. Shapiro’s research.
http://www.doctorjerryshapiro.com/ (Dr. Shapiro’s Biography)
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02074943 (PRP Trial - Clinical Trials.gov)
Dr. Nina Otberg is a hair loss restoration surgeon and also teaches, researches and authors textbooks on hair loss. Dr. Otberg has worked in research labs at the University of Berlin (Germany) and currently is stationed out of the University of British Columbia. Her specialization is in the niche of “female pattern baldness.”
Both Dr. Shapiro and Otberg have authored numerous articles on hair loss in the renowned peer-review journal NATURE which has high standards of review unlike some other smaller “peer-reviewed” articles
In the research world, Nature has a high “Impact Factor” compared to many journals because of its strict academic reputation and many researchers and publication cite its research. It is not easy and fairly hard for the average researcher to get published in Nature. Moreover, many researchers have tried to replicate findings of many Nature research articles (aside)
The textbook authored by Dr. Shapiro and Nina Otberg entitled “Hair Loss and Restoration” has to say this about IGF-1 and hair follicle biology (meat of the matter):
[Textbook Excerpt]
The expression of Insulin like growth factor (IGF-1) in the dermal papilla is discussed to play an “important” role in the development of pattern balding. Older men with vertex balding showed higher levels of IGF-1 and lower circulation levels of IGF-1 binding protein 3. A decreased expression of IGF-1 was found in in the scalp tissue.
Source:
(Genetics in Hair Loss and Restoration, Dr. Jerry Shapiro and Nine Otenberg, pg 28)
Analysis:
It appears to me in my academic study of IGF-1 that this growth factor certainly plays a role in hair growth – no question about that. IGF-1 contributes to hair thinning and it is important! That being said, it can be speculated that the dermal papilla senesce in balding men/women impacted by androgenic alopecia is due to two things:
1) Lower circulation of the IGF-1 binding protein results in lack of IGF-1 in the scalp and thus, the regular hair follicle cycle is disrupted resulting in thinner and thinner hair until the follicle miniaturizes or goes dormant. The IGF1 binding protein 3 receptors for the dermal papilla are functional
2) Abnormality or inability of proper uptake of the IGF1-1 binding protein 3 at the dermal papilla receptors which results in the protein not being used properly even if IGF1 levels are higher and thus progressive miniaturization
As a medical student, I have to say that Follicept’s “science is strong” and they are going after the right target. However, the probability of failure is there, and it is high.
Thus I am cautiously watching and observing here. Who said science was simple?
This can obviously fail too, the complexity of the hair follicle has evaded a cure for so long. We have to wait and see the results.
The Challenge:
If Point # 1 holds true, then Follicept is likely to work. If Point # 2 holds true then, Follicept will fail.
The challenge or onus is on Follicept to show their trials one-man and multiple specimen experiments and publish results from double-blind placebo controlled fashion.Comment
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Thanks rdas88. Very interesting post. Let's hope point 1 holds true. Guys please stop having a go at eachother. It's not about who's right and who's wrong. We're not kids here. We will see the outcome of this soon enough.Comment
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Would you agree that this igf-1 binding problem looks a lot like insulin resistance at hair follicle level ?Gentlemen,
I’ve been a lurker on this forum and I wanted to share some details from a medical textbook that I was going through last day in preparation for my upcoming exams. I’m an M.D. student at the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada. My area of intended specialization is in Dermatology.
Coincidentally, I happened to come upon a section on Genetics and IGF-1 in my exam review readings. The primary author of the textbook is Dr. Jerry Shapiro , co-author is Nina Otenberg.
[Author/Physician/ Researcher Introduction:]
By way of background, Dr. Shapiro is a renowned hair restoration surgeon and a hair loss researcher. He is one of the few doctors who happens to be affiliated with the public hair research and skin institute at the University of British Columbia’s medical school, one of Canada’s pre-eminent medical institutions. In addition to being a practicing hair restoration surgeon and doctor, he serves at the NYU – Langone Clinical Center and UBC- Vancouver. Dr. Shapiro mixes teaching, research and diagnosis all in one.
Dr. Shapiro’s research is heavily “lab based” and he is constantly researching at UBC on hair follicle biology. Upon closer research, it appears he is the advising physician for Replicel and their RCH-01 trials. Moreover, he is conducting double-blind placebo controlled clinical trials (the first of their kind) on PRP to “validate” if the hype around PRP growth factors is true or not. (Note: No double-blind , placebo controlled studies on PRP and Androgenic Alopecia exists to date)
To date, Dr. Shapiro’s stance has been tailored to traditional FDA approved drugs minoxidil and finasteride to treat male pattern baldness. At the last consult, he discouraged use of PRP until further scientific evidence accumulates via double-blind, placebo controlled studies.
IGF-1 is a key part of PRP and one of many growth factors released by PRP, it is a key area of Dr. Shapiro’s research.
http://www.doctorjerryshapiro.com/ (Dr. Shapiro’s Biography)
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02074943 (PRP Trial - Clinical Trials.gov)
Dr. Nina Otberg is a hair loss restoration surgeon and also teaches, researches and authors textbooks on hair loss. Dr. Otberg has worked in research labs at the University of Berlin (Germany) and currently is stationed out of the University of British Columbia. Her specialization is in the niche of “female pattern baldness.”
Both Dr. Shapiro and Otberg have authored numerous articles on hair loss in the renowned peer-review journal NATURE which has high standards of review unlike some other smaller “peer-reviewed” articles
In the research world, Nature has a high “Impact Factor” compared to many journals because of its strict academic reputation and many researchers and publication cite its research. It is not easy and fairly hard for the average researcher to get published in Nature. Moreover, many researchers have tried to replicate findings of many Nature research articles (aside)
The textbook authored by Dr. Shapiro and Nina Otberg entitled “Hair Loss and Restoration” has to say this about IGF-1 and hair follicle biology (meat of the matter):
[Textbook Excerpt]
The expression of Insulin like growth factor (IGF-1) in the dermal papilla is discussed to play an “important” role in the development of pattern balding. Older men with vertex balding showed higher levels of IGF-1 and lower circulation levels of IGF-1 binding protein 3. A decreased expression of IGF-1 was found in in the scalp tissue.
Source:
(Genetics in Hair Loss and Restoration, Dr. Jerry Shapiro and Nine Otenberg, pg 28)
Analysis:
It appears to me in my academic study of IGF-1 that this growth factor certainly plays a role in hair growth – no question about that. IGF-1 contributes to hair thinning and it is important! That being said, it can be speculated that the dermal papilla senesce in balding men/women impacted by androgenic alopecia is due to two things:
1) Lower circulation of the IGF-1 binding protein results in lack of IGF-1 in the scalp and thus, the regular hair follicle cycle is disrupted resulting in thinner and thinner hair until the follicle miniaturizes or goes dormant. The IGF1 binding protein 3 receptors for the dermal papilla are functional
2) Abnormality or inability of proper uptake of the IGF1-1 binding protein 3 at the dermal papilla receptors which results in the protein not being used properly even if IGF1 levels are higher and thus progressive miniaturization
As a medical student, I have to say that Follicept’s “science is strong” and they are going after the right target. However, the probability of failure is there, and it is high.
Thus I am cautiously watching and observing here. Who said science was simple?
This can obviously fail too, the complexity of the hair follicle has evaded a cure for so long. We have to wait and see the results.
The Challenge:
If Point # 1 holds true, then Follicept is likely to work. If Point # 2 holds true then, Follicept will fail.
The challenge or onus is on Follicept to show their trials one-man and multiple specimen experiments and publish results from double-blind placebo controlled fashion.Comment
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