Sorry for all the questions

[Jcm800]

Im single, early 40's, think that's a big reason I worry about my fading looks. Youngsters think us older guys are married and settled down. Not always the case.

[mpb47]

I don't think I'm settled enough or happy enough for the not bothering thing to kick in yet, and it's harder when you find yourself single in the latter part of 40, probably after being in relationships for all those years.

Well I am in the same boat as you...thought I had finally found the one this summer and it may still work out but at this point the chances are getting slimmer. And yes it still bothers me..sometimes really bad, but not nearly as much as say 10 years ago when it started rather suddenly in the back.

But... I do get your point, and in particular the second one, on an opposite scale. This same girl I mentioned was paranoid beyond paranoid about her flat chest, but I told her it really didn't bother me at all, and it really didn't, at all, and thinking about this now, she could pad-out till her hearts content, and it was on the inside, if you get my drift, the hair thing is more in your face, in every day life than that. I'm not blaming her for my paranoia, although her behaviour to some poor b'stard losing his hair, probably didn't help the way I felt and thought. But I would never have dreamed of making comment about her hang ups, or weaknesses, and yet she used mine against me.

In my experiences when women say things about mpb and say it in a mean hatefully way they usually have their own problems. One in college would make fun of guys in our class and no one liked her for it. ..she was also very fat and probably was why she did it. Another one was to put it nicely, very unattractive.

But to be clear my 2 friends mentioned in my last post are not like that at all... Friend #1 has never said anything negative about mpb..in fact she actually likes it most likely do to her dad being totally bald by 40.
She was kinda like what you refer to as the double standard though. While she thought mpb was normal and natural , she didn't think men should try and fight it as it was sorta vain and unstoppable anyway. Yet she was super attractive-very very hot but thought she was a fat blob and was saving up for fat removal surgery.

Friend #2 would only kid a few of us that were friends with her.

The one exception was the guy who gave her a hard time about needing a bra.
But he was/is a jerk and knew she had a hangup about it and said it in a mean way.

And.. here's another thing to think about, here in the UK, we have many cases of women getting breast enlargement on the NHS because they're so depressed by their small busts, but if a guy has a hang up about his baldness it doesn't work the same way. Any idea why? Not the ladies fault of course, but it does seem to sway in their favour a tad more, like our vanity doesn't count?

I think some women consider it vain and think it is a turnoff, but others don't mind. And then there is the other extreme... One of my friend's girlfriend thinks propecia is 100% effective and was upset that he wouldn't take it or anything else. She even told me to take it so I would never end up like him...

[Misery]

Im single, early 40's, think that's a big reason I worry about my fading looks. Youngsters think us older guys are married and settled down. Not always the case.

I wish I had have got to care less as i got older, In some ways I'm almost glad I'm not with any of my exs and they didn't get to see this...

Without over dramatising this shitty problem, It really is my Kryptonite, sad as that may sound!!

Well I am in the same boat as you...thought I had finally found the one this summer and it may still work out but at this point the chances are getting slimmer. And yes it still bothers me..sometimes really bad, but not nearly as much as say 10 years ago when it started rather suddenly in the back.

In my experiences when women say things about mpb and say it in a mean hatefully way they usually have their own problems. One in college would make fun of guys in our class and no one liked her for it. ..she was also very fat and probably was why she did it. Another one was to put it nicely, very unattractive.

But to be clear my 2 friends mentioned in my last post are not like that at all... Friend #1 has never said anything negative about mpb..in fact she actually likes it most likely do to her dad being totally bald by 40.
She was kinda like what you refer to as the double standard though. While she thought mpb was normal and natural , she didn't think men should try and fight it as it was sorta vain and unstoppable anyway. Yet she was super attractive-very very hot but thought she was a fat blob and was saving up for fat removal surgery.

Friend #2 would only kid a few of us that were friends with her.

The one exception was the guy who gave her a hard time about needing a bra.
But he was/is a jerk and knew she had a hangup about it and said it in a mean way.

I think some women consider it vain and think it is a turnoff, but others don't mind. And then there is the other extreme... One of my friend's girlfriend thinks propecia is 100% effective and was upset that he wouldn't take it or anything else. She even told me to take it so I would never end up like him...

It's like what's been discussed on hair forums all over, when we use concealers... the argument is always, 'women use make up' etc... I don't know if I see that as the same thing, well I don't actually, but many guys use that argument. I actually dislike myself for using that stuff if I was totally honest.

I'm really not understanding why the fallout rate of the hair was fairly gradual all over, and now it's coming out so quickly, are there ever any reasons for that?

[Tracy C]

It's like what's been discussed on hair forums all over, when we use concealers... the argument is always, 'women use make up' etc... I don't know if I see that as the same thing, well I don't actually, but many guys use that argument.

It is the same thing. I only wear a little eye make up and I do so because I want to look my best. I wear Dermmatch in my hair for that exact same reason. There is nothing wrong with trying to look your best if it helps you feel better about yourself.

I'm really not understanding why the fallout rate of the hair was fairly gradual all over, and now it's coming out so quickly, are there ever any reasons for that?

Maybe, maybe not. You may have periods of rapid loss and other periods of slowly shedding away. During the first two years of treating my hair loss, I went through three separate periods of shedding. Each time my hair grew back a little thicker than it was before the shed.

Stressful situations also make me shed. My mother and I had a spat in mid October. I was so upset about it that I was shedding hair by the handful for the next couple of days afterwards. Mom and I made up a couple of weeks later and my hair is filling back in already. When I lost my job a year ago, I shed out a bunch of hair - but it has since grown back. I still haven't found a new job - but the anxiety and depression from loosing my job had subsided.

[mpb47]

It's like what's been discussed on hair forums all over, when we use concealers... the argument is always, 'women use make up' etc... I don't know if I see that as the same thing, well I don't actually, but many guys use that argument. I actually dislike myself for using that stuff if I was totally honest.

Agree and disagree at the same time. As much as I like my friend, she really didn't have the right to imply I would be vain like her brother for wanting to use meds, esp since she wanted surgery for a problem that did not even exist. At the same time, part of me has hang ups about using them. Like yea a guess I am a bit vain....but still have the right to be if that makes sense?

i'm really not understanding why the fallout rate of the hair was fairly gradual all over, and now it's coming out so quickly, are there ever any reasons for that?

As you saw in my previous post mine did the same thing in my late 30's. Don't know why, just know that it happens to some guys. One of the Dr's on this site has talked about it and I think basically said it is just one variation of mpb. I have never met anyone else on this site that has gone through this slow, then fast, then slow again loss but here is a thread on another site that has a couple of guys talking about it:

http://ask.metafilter.com/101166/What-can-cause-very-rapid-thinning-and

The good news is it will sometimes, but not always slow down or even completely stop- for a while at least. Mine was fast for about 5=6 years then slowed way down even when I went off of everything. Now 6-7 years later it has started up again. The longest it ever stopped/greatly slowed down for was about 9-10 years fwiw.

So if you do have this roller coaster type of loss , it actually may be a good thing as far as keeping your hair longer. I have met guys who had much higher NW's than me despite the fact my hairline was receding long before they were even born.

[Misery]

It is the same thing. I only wear a little eye make up and I do so because I want to look my best. I wear Dermmatch in my hair for that exact same reason. There is nothing wrong with trying to look your best if it helps you feel better about yourself.

Maybe, maybe not. You may have periods of rapid loss and other periods of slowly shedding away. During the first two years of treating my hair loss, I went through three separate periods of shedding. Each time my hair grew back a little thicker than it was before the shed.

Stressful situations also make me shed. My mother and I had a spat in mid October. I was so upset about it that I was shedding hair by the handful for the next couple of days afterwards. Mom and I made up a couple of weeks later and my hair is filling back in already. When I lost my job a year ago, I shed out a bunch of hair - but it has since grown back. I still haven't found a new job - but the anxiety and depression from loosing my job had subsided.

Thanks for that Tracy. I appreciate you saying that, and I know I shouldn't care, but sometimes I hate myself for having to put the dermmatch and nanogen on, Men are supposed to be strong and not care blah blah... and it's now a lot longer job, and doesn't work as much because I'm patchy all over now, as opposed to just at back. It's worked it's way to the front and those products are not as good as they once were.

Stress is unavoidable for me at the moment, and also the hair thing depresses so much it keeps me awake every night so it's a vicious circle.

Agree and disagree at the same time. As much as I like my friend, she really didn't have the right to imply I would be vain like her brother for wanting to use meds, esp since she wanted surgery for a problem that did not even exist. At the same time, part of me has hang ups about using them. Like yea a guess I am a bit vain....but still have the right to be if that makes sense?

As you saw in my previous post mine did the same thing in my late 30's. Don't know why, just know that it happens to some guys. One of the Dr's on this site has talked about it and I think basically said it is just one variation of mpb. I have never met anyone else on this site that has gone through this slow, then fast, then slow again loss but here is a thread on another site that has a couple of guys talking about it:

http://ask.metafilter.com/101166/What-can-cause-very-rapid-thinning-and

The good news is it will sometimes, but not always slow down or even completely stop- for a while at least. Mine was fast for about 5=6 years then slowed way down even when I went off of everything. Now 6-7 years later it has started up again. The longest it ever stopped/greatly slowed down for was about 9-10 years fwiw.

So if you do have this roller coaster type of loss , it actually may be a good thing as far as keeping your hair longer. I have met guys who had much higher NW's than me despite the fact my hairline was receding long before they were even born.

I am appalled at the way it can change in just one week to the next, that's why I wondered whether the derm was making it fall out quicker. I dread washing the hair and seeing it without the concealers, that's a depressing hour... and I hate those times, which is why I was asking about maybe only using the Minox every other day, so I don't have to wash it every day as I'm guessing that's not such a great idea either

[Tracy C]

...which is why I was asking about maybe only using the Minox every other day, so I don't have to wash it every day as I'm guessing that's not such a great idea either

I only wash my hair every other night now that the weather has gone cold. I also only use Dermmatch and nothing else. On the nights that I do not wash my hair, I still apply liquid Minoxidil in the evening. I just don't apply my morning dose the next day. My cold weather schedule goes like this:

I wash and condition during my evening shower then I give myself a laser treatment with my laser comb. I then apply liquid Minoxidil. The following morning I apply Rogaine foam after my morning shower while my hair is towel dry damp. I give that a few minutes to absorb then I apply Dermmatch while my hair is still a little damp and style my hair for the day. That night I won't wash my hair but I will still apply liquid Minoxidil. By morning you cannot tell I have liquid Minoxidil on my scalp. I might need to add a little more Dermmatch in the morning to touch it up a bit but I do not apply my morning dose of Rogaine foam that day. So, I am applying liquid Minoxidil every night but I am only washing my hair, applying Rogaine foam and Dermmatch every other day.

I realize that might sound kind of confusing. If you need to ask me to try to explain it again I will try to do better.

Just to make it a tad more confusing, I alternate between sulfate free shampoo/conditioner and Nizoral A-D with my regular sulfate free conditioner.

When the weather is warm enough for me to exercise outside, I typically need to wash and condition my hair almost every day.

[ravegrover]

It's like what's been discussed on hair forums all over, when we use concealers... the argument is always, 'women use make up' etc... I don't know if I see that as the same thing, well I don't actually, but many guys use that argument. I actually dislike myself for using that stuff if I was totally honest.

As a former user of concealers, I can say that this argument has zero merit. Men don't use makeup, period. Use of concealers by men is not accepted by any sane society or group of people. It is much much better to be bald or balding. Sadly, a man wearing concealer is nothing but a JOKE

[Misery]

I only wash my hair every other night now that the weather has gone cold. I also only use Dermmatch and nothing else. On the nights that I do not wash my hair, I still apply liquid Minoxidil in the evening. I just don't apply my morning dose the next day. My cold weather schedule goes like this:

I wash and condition during my evening shower then I give myself a laser treatment with my laser comb. I then apply liquid Minoxidil. The following morning I apply Rogaine foam after my morning shower while my hair is towel dry damp. I give that a few minutes to absorb then I apply Dermmatch while my hair is still a little damp and style my hair for the day. That night I won't wash my hair but I will still apply liquid Minoxidil. By morning you cannot tell I have liquid Minoxidil on my scalp. I might need to add a little more Dermmatch in the morning to touch it up a bit but I do not apply my morning dose of Rogaine foam that day. So, I am applying liquid Minoxidil every night but I am only washing my hair, applying Rogaine foam and Dermmatch every other day.

I realize that might sound kind of confusing. If you need to ask me to try to explain it again I will try to do better.

Just to make it a tad more confusing, I alternate between sulfate free shampoo/conditioner and Nizoral A-D with my regular sulfate free conditioner.

When the weather is warm enough for me to exercise outside, I typically need to wash and condition my hair almost every day.

Thank you, I'm still trying to compute this... so you don't or do actually hit the derm with the Minox, or Rogaine... so you use Rogaine liquid and Foam but only use the liquid when you've got Derm on. I think it will be too tricky if I use that with dermm and the fibres though. I still think I'll need to wash every time I apply? If you don't have the fibres I'm sure it's OK, but I really have to use both.
Which other shampoo do you use, the Thin To Thick is sulfate free?

As a former user of concealers, I can say that this argument has zero merit. Men don't use makeup, period. Use of concealers by men is not accepted by any sane society or group of people. It is much much better to be bald or balding. Sadly, a man wearing concealer is nothing but a JOKE

Thanks, you've cheered me up no end with that fantastic piece of advice. To say it's better to be bald or balding contradicts why you'd actually be on a site like this, doesn't it?

[ravegrover]

It is better to be bald, than to paint ones scalp. You may not appreciate my advise right now, I understand.

[lalala]

Misery, if you are this depressed about hair loss then do something about it. After you get on fin and minox, start some consults with the best HT surgeons in the world, pick one, and schedule a hair transplant. The good news is that you are older so it will be easier for them to have a decent idea of where your hair loss might go. This will help in designing a realistic hairline and giving you adequate coverage to thicken things up.

You mentioned that you work from home. This is a HUGE advantage in that you can hide out during the "ugly duckling" period after the surgery.

Guys like you have a much bigger advantage than a 20 year old who is seeing hair loss. So do something about it!

Oh, and to all the kids posting in this thread -- stay out of it!! It's not your thread. Stop being selfish and go make your own thread!

[mpb47]

I am appalled at the way it can change in just one week to the next, that's why I wondered whether the derm was making it fall out quicker. I dread washing the hair and seeing it without the concealers, that's a depressing hour... and I hate those times, which is why I was asking about maybe only using the Minox every other day, so I don't have to wash it every day as I'm guessing that's not such a great idea either

Ok I think I misunderstood what you were meaning. The link I sent was about how mpb can start and stop/slow, then start again over time. That is what those guys were talking about and what has happened to me. If there is such a thing as a good type of mpb that is probably it because it buys you time even without meds.

But if you mean it's starting/stopping like over weeks or months, that is shedding and is very common and happens to just about everyone using meds..I really don't know what it is, but to me it seems to be like a tug of war between your mpb and your meds. I took pics and you could see my crown expand and shrink back and forth.

[Misery]

It is better to be bald, than to paint ones scalp. You may not appreciate my advise right now, I understand.

I don't get why you feel like that on here though. Wouldn't you think 99% of people are on here because they're wanting to hide their thinning/baldness? Have you had a bad experience with it, or are you like me, finding it harder to use the more the hair has gone

Misery, if you are this depressed about hair loss then do something about it. After you get on fin and minox, start some consults with the best HT surgeons in the world, pick one, and schedule a hair transplant. The good news is that you are older so it will be easier for them to have a decent idea of where your hair loss might go. This will help in designing a realistic hairline and giving you adequate coverage to thicken things up.

You mentioned that you work from home. This is a HUGE advantage in that you can hide out during the "ugly duckling" period after the surgery.

Guys like you have a much bigger advantage than a 20 year old who is seeing hair loss. So do something about it!

Oh, and to all the kids posting in this thread -- stay out of it!! It's not your thread. Stop being selfish and go make your own thread!

Thanks for that, I have problems and bad reactions to most drugs due to an old illness from many years ago, so think this will be the same, and am terrified of the reactions from these too, Understandably, realistically speaking I know I've got to try one or other yes. The thought of a shed on Minox while it's getting so horrendous now is another factor, plus the loads of people who say it ruined their hair/line and after the shed they didn't grow the hair back either...?

The downside of working from home is the fact I work for myself and don't have cover, so unless it's a local HT in London and I can go one day and back to work next, that is a tough one too. And I understand it's a no no to get it done here. London HT are frowned upon in these boards I notice.
Are there ever any circumstances where someone has a HT and doesn't have to use Minox or Fin afterwards, I'm guessing not, or the remaining will fall out too?
Thanks again

Ok I think I misunderstood what you were meaning. The link I sent was about how mpb can start and stop/slow, then start again over time. That is what those guys were talking about and what has happened to me. If there is such a thing as a good type of mpb that is probably it because it buys you time even without meds.

But if you mean it's starting/stopping like over weeks or months, that is shedding and is very common and happens to just about everyone using meds..I really don't know what it is, but to me it seems to be like a tug of war between your mpb and your meds. I took pics and you could see my crown expand and shrink back and forth.

hey, thanks again, no meds so no, it is just a fall out at a very fast rate. It was a thinning over a few years, but now its just mental, and the front has shown through which it hadn't done until the last few months. I had an OK coverage at front, despite it receding, but now... it's awful. I just know that since September it's like a different head, It's gone so fast

[Tracy C]

...plus the loads of people who say it ruined their hair/line and after the shed they didn't grow the hair back either...?

Stopping treatment due to shedding is the absolute worse thing you could do. Shedding is part of the process. The hair that sheds out usually grows back thicker than it was before it shed out - if you continue treatment. The vast majority of these guys who complain about that made their problem worse by stopping treatment. Their only chance of growing the hair that shed out back was to continue treatment - but they did not do that. They freaked out over the shedding and they stopped treatment. Big mistake.

Another big mistake many young males make is they try using it on their hair line. Though some males can regrow some of their lost hair line hair, most males cannot. This limitation does not apply to females. For males, Minoxidil can be expected to work on the vertex and mid-anterior areas, not the hair line. For females Minoxidil works the same all over her scalp.

[Misery]

Thanks Tracy, can you clear up the mid anterior, should I not use the Minox on the front of head, Like I said, the crown area has moved forward to forward and behind hair line now, Will it not work there, and can it damage hair line? A lot of guys just cover whole head in it I've read?

LaLaLa, another question, forgot to say... I was under the impression that if you were 20, you had a better chance for catching it early, but you say it's an advantage to be older? Thought less likely to grown back much if you're older?