Sorry for all the questions

[mpb47]

hey, thanks again, no meds so no, it is just a fall out at a very fast rate. It was a thinning over a few years, but now its just mental, and the front has shown through which it hadn't done until the last few months. I had an OK coverage at front, despite it receding, but now... it's awful. I just know that since September it's like a different head, It's gone so fast

Ok I think my original thought was correct then. I don't understand why it can be so slow or even completely dormant for years, then speed up, but all I can say is that is how it works for some guys. But again if there is any good news, it's there is a reasonable chance that it will at least slow down in the future.

Oh and your other comment about the hairline..I would listen to Tracy as she knows what she is talking about.

You never know what results you are going to get till you try it (and stay on them for a long time). Everything I had read said that Propecia works best on both recent loss and in the crown area. Well for me, relatively speaking, I found the opposite to be true. I was receding at 15 or 17 at the latest but my crown didn't started thinning till about 36. Recession was always very slow, even stopping for years at a time. Crown came on quickly just like you are seeing now. Rogaine alone was like using water to fight mpb...crown just kept growing. Added Propecia shortly before I turned 38. Took 9-10 months to see results in crown..and while it did work well there, shrinking crown to small oval, it did not complelty get rid of it even though it was only a 2-3 years since it started. Hairline was diff story...started seeing results around 3-4 months and it had been so long I did not honestly realize how much it had receded till it started filling in again. It came forward and diffuse thinning was greatly reduced. After reading pubmed , I think the weird results I got were not from the meds, but rather my variation of mpb..which is more aggressive in back than in front, but point is you won't know till you try.
The hairline eaters probably have a more aggressive mpb in the front and going off meds is not going to help things at all..know that from my own experiences as well.

[ravegrover]

Well most people here want to treat hairloss. Using concealer is not treatment. You will compound your illusions and it will make it harder for you to accept your hairloss. And, as you continue to lose more hair, this stuff will look more and more ridiculous. My advise is to not use concealer and instead treat your hairloss.
With that said, if you are comfortable with using concealer, please ignore my advise.

[Misery]

Ok I think my original thought was correct then. I don't understand why it can be so slow or even completely dormant for years, then speed up, but all I can say is that is how it works for some guys. But again if there is any good news, it's there is a reasonable chance that it will at least slow down in the future.

Oh and your other comment about the hairline..I would listen to Tracy as she knows what she is talking about.

You never know what results you are going to get till you try it (and stay on them for a long time). Everything I had read said that Propecia works best on both recent loss and in the crown area. Well for me, relatively speaking, I found the opposite to be true. I was receding at 15 or 17 at the latest but my crown didn't started thinning till about 36. Recession was always very slow, even stopping for years at a time. Crown came on quickly just like you are seeing now. Rogaine alone was like using water to fight mpb...crown just kept growing. Added Propecia shortly before I turned 38. Took 9-10 months to see results in crown..and while it did work well there, shrinking crown to small oval, it did not complelty get rid of it even though it was only a 2-3 years since it started. Hairline was diff story...started seeing results around 3-4 months and it had been so long I did not honestly realize how much it had receded till it started filling in again. It came forward and diffuse thinning was greatly reduced. After reading pubmed , I think the weird results I got were not from the meds, but rather my variation of mpb..which is more aggressive in back than in front, but point is you won't know till you try.
The hairline eaters probably have a more aggressive mpb in the front and going off meds is not going to help things at all..know that from my own experiences as well.

Thanks for that, I hope I've not left it too late, It's been going on for a long time, but the fronts are more recent, can you use the Regaine all over without problems? Are you saying if crown has been shot for a fair while then it won't do any good? I'm assuming you meant 'crown kept going', not growing? It is the thinning ALL over now that's really scaring me, It's bad enough with no crown, but this is just horrible

[mpb47]

Thanks for that, I hope I've not left it too late, It's been going on for a long time, but the fronts are more recent, can you use the Regaine all over without problems?

Regaine=minox...then yes I use it all over.,.problems...skin irritation and dandruff but otherwise ok.

Are you saying if crown has been shot for a fair while then it won't do any good?

No...not what I mean at all. Yes normally drugs are supposed work better on recent loss AND the crown area, but in my case they seem to work better up front on much much older loss....loss that had started in my teens. My crown had started thinning only 2-3 years before I went on propecia...and yes it worked pretty good but I still had a small oval area of thinning that I could never get rid of. Yet I have seen guys over at bald talk that in some cases had crown loss much worse than me but were able to reverse it so well you couldn't tell they were ever balding.

Point of my rambling is you never know for sure how well they work till you try them..and if you do you must wait a good long time to know what is going to happen.

I'm assuming you meant 'crown kept going', not growing? It is the thinning ALL over now that's really scaring me, It's bad enough with no crown, but this is just horrible

What I mean is the size of my thin spot kept getting bigger(I was taking pictures) until I went on propecia. At that time my mpb was very fast and minox alone was not enough. Please weight the risks, but just know if your mpb is very fast you may have to add propecia ...now if it slows down you might get by for a good while on just minox.

Good luck!

[Tracy C]

Thanks Tracy, can you clear up the mid anterior?

I will try. The vertex is the area where you typically see a bald spot on men. The mid-anterior is forward of that in the front of your scalp. There is often a bridge of hair between the vertex and mid anterior. When this bridge of hair thins out and breaks the separation between the vertex and mid-anterior, you have reached Norwood 6. Minoxidil works in these areas for most males. Minoxidil does not work on the hair line for most males.

... and can it damage hair line? A lot of guys just cover whole head in it I've read?

To say Minoxidil can "damage" a males hair line is not an accurate way to put it, though many young males do just that. Minoxidil can speed up the development of the natural and normal adult mature male hair line.

This confuses many because they do not understand that males have different hair lines than females do. They wrongfully think the natural and normal adult mature male hair line is MPB. It is not.

I was under the impression that if you were 20, you had a better chance for catching it early, but you say it's an advantage to be older? Thought less likely to grown back much if you're older?

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say here or how you understood what I said.

It is best to catch MPB early. The earlier the better. What happens too often is young males think the natural and normal adult mature male hair line is MPB, which it is not. Then they try to prevent the natural and normal adult mature hair line from happening by using a medication that is intended for treating MPB. When they try to prevent it, they usually end up speeding up the process. This gives them the false impression that the medication made their hair loss worse. The truth is they made their hair loss worse themselves by not understanding what is actually going on.

I know, this is still probably clear as mud but I am trying.

[Misery]

Regaine=minox...then yes I use it all over.,.problems...skin irritation and dandruff but otherwise ok.

No...not what I mean at all. Yes normally drugs are supposed work better on recent loss AND the crown area, but in my case they seem to work better up front on much much older loss....loss that had started in my teens. My crown had started thinning only 2-3 years before I went on propecia...and yes it worked pretty good but I still had a small oval area of thinning that I could never get rid of. Yet I have seen guys over at bald talk that in some cases had crown loss much worse than me but were able to reverse it so well you couldn't tell they were ever balding.

Point of my rambling is you never know for sure how well they work till you try them..and if you do you must wait a good long time to know what is going to happen.

What I mean is the size of my thin spot kept getting bigger(I was taking pictures) until I went on propecia. At that time my mpb was very fast and minox alone was not enough. Please weight the risks, but just know if your mpb is very fast you may have to add propecia ...now if it slows down you might get by for a good while on just minox.

Good luck!

thank you for clearing that up, I understand more now from yourself and Tracy, that for the most part you can apply the minox all over, and I'm still not sure about whether to use the foam or the liquid yet, and that the likelihood of it ruining hairline is more from people not maintaining use than anything else, or it was going to go anyway

I will try. The vertex is the area where you typically see a bald spot on men. The mid-anterior is forward of that in the front of your scalp. There is often a bridge of hair between the vertex and mid anterior. When this bridge of hair thins out and breaks the separation between the vertex and mid-anterior, you have reached Norwood 6. Minoxidil works in these areas for most males. Minoxidil does not work on the hair line for most males.

To say Minoxidil can "damage" a males hair line is not an accurate way to put it, though many young males do just that. Minoxidil can speed up the development of the natural and normal adult mature male hair line.

This confuses many because they do not understand that males have different hair lines than females do. They wrongfully think the natural and normal adult mature male hair line is MPB. It is not.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say here or how you understood what I said.

It is best to catch MPB early. The earlier the better. What happens too often is young males think the natural and normal adult mature male hair line is MPB, which it is not. Then they try to prevent the natural and normal adult mature hair line from happening by using a medication that is intended for treating MPB. When they try to prevent it, they usually end up speeding up the process. This gives them the false impression that the medication made their hair loss worse. The truth is they made their hair loss worse themselves by not understanding what is actually going on.

I know, this is still probably clear as mud but I am trying.

You are explaining incredibly well, it's just that I'm so aghast with all the terminology on these boards and trying to take it all in, the transplant lingo on the other boards are even more confusing, terms I've not clue as to what they are talking about, and how well versed you all are as well. So the mid is basically the bit inside the horseshoe of hair that shapes what most men keep when losing the rest of it around that? I think....

What shows best results these days, foam or liquid for men, I see the foam says only for use up to age 49, so wonder how it differs

Sorry Tracy, that was just questioning LaLaLa's post about me being in a better position because he said it was better to be older and to tackle this as opposed to me thinking it was better to catch early etc.

[Tracy C]

What shows best results these days, foam or liquid for men, I see the foam says only for use up to age 49, so wonder how it differs.

This is based on the age of the oldest study subject when the study was conducted. The makers cannot claim it will work for anyone older than the oldest person who participated in the study.

For the most part, the foam is the best. I use both the foam and the liquid. I use the foam for my morning dose because it is very stealthy and dries very quickly. I use the liquid generic for my evening dose because it is a lot less expensive than the foam.

[mpb47]

thank you for clearing that up, I understand more now from yourself and Tracy, that for the most part you can apply the minox all over, and I'm still not sure about whether to use the foam or the liquid yet, and that the likelihood of it ruining hairline is more from people not maintaining use than anything else, or it was going to go anyway

Some believe the liquid is more effective, but it's so messy that I only use it at night and have to wash my hair every morning. So I only use it 1x a day which some dr's think is fine. I even skip a day here and there to give my scalp a break. Never tried the foam but I have read it is much better for daytime use as it does not mess up your hair as much. Which ever way you go, buy your minox online..as it is much cheaper, even over walmart who has recently become way over priced. About $22-$30 for 6 bottles of liquid kirkland brand from Amazon. Price varies because different vendors sell it and it depends on who has it in stock at the time. There are 2 different boxes and one box will be higher than the other even though they contain the same 6 bottles. I just paid $30 but that was because I paid extra for fast shipping as I was running out.



You are explaining incredibly well, it's just that I'm so aghast with all the terminology on these boards and trying to take it all in, the transplant lingo on the other boards are even more confusing, terms I've not clue as to what they are talking about, and how well versed you all are as well. So the mid is basically the bit inside the horseshoe of hair that shapes what most men keep when losing the rest of it around that? I think....

What shows best results these days, foam or liquid for men, I see the foam says only for use up to age 49, so wonder how it differs

Sorry Tracy, that was just questioning LaLaLa's post about me being in a better position because he said it was better to be older and to tackle this as opposed to me thinking it was better to catch early etc.[/QUOTE]

[Misery]

thanks again both of you, I'm still shedding at a rate of knots for some reason, It seems to never end, It's gone on forever, clothes, pillows, shoulders at all stage of day, this laptop! I started using Nizoral again, which I didn't like last time as it always made my hair fall out. The Nizorelle which was the 1% version was brilliant and maintained very well, but the makers stopped making it and that also played a part on me I think. I remember reading ages ago, that using Nizoral was having the same effects as people using Regaine, I sincerely hope not or it won't do anything for me!

As you know, I use concealer, derm and fibres, and the thought of washing it every day fills me with horror as well, but I guess if I start on Minox next week, then i will have no option? Is there ever a time when it's safe to put it on top of them, even if it's just a couple of times a week or is that a very bad idea, providing of course that the baseball cap stays on head wherever I am! I'm guessing if needs me the foam would be the better bet on those days?

[Tracy C]

I remember reading ages ago, that using Nizoral was having the same effects as people using Regaine, I sincerely hope not or it won't do anything for me!

The study indicated that Nizoral can stimulate hair to grow in females with hereditary hair loss. That does not mean that the mechanism of action is the same, though shedding itself is a normal part of treating hereditary hair loss. Therefore basically any treatment for hereditary hair loss will involve a period of shedding. Propecia involves a period of shedding. Rogaine/Regaine involves a period of shedding. The laser comb involves a period of shedding. Dutasteride involves a period of shedding. The hair that sheds out usually grows back thicker than it was before it shed out.

I don't believe they stopped making 1% Nizoral A-D, however there is a supply problem. They are not making enough to meet demand. This is not the first time that has happened. There is an alternative available in Regenepure though it is very over priced. Regenepure has almost 1% Ketoconazole in it but not quite. The percentage is close enough to 1% that the makers round the percentage up to 1%. Since they do not mass print this statement, they can get away with that. Anyways, if I find myself unable to get Nizoral A-D when my current supply runs out, I will start using Regenepure.

[guygroomes12]

I would start with a multi vitamin, quitting smoking, releasing pent up stress and dealing with it properly. Do not let it fester. Do something anything to burn it off. And using rogaine until you get a prescription for propecia. I use saw palmetto, its experimental though. I used nizoral 2% for awhile but the bottle said 2-3 times per week so i used it that much and threw it out.

[guygroomes12]

yeah its true tracy usually contributes pretty sound advices. Ive heard so much about stress being a non issue. And although i do believe hereditary hairloss is common. I also believe now adays with the hectic lifestyles and economy issues its really easy to fall into a stress hole. Proactivity is the key focusing on things you can control, yeah my land lords a dick and stresses me out, but i take that stress and put it into something i can control, or a positive location such as running. Thats the key, and although not a miracle cure. I can see that alot of people handle it opposite and start puffing more cigarettes or eating like crap. And i have no doubt that it will accelerate/exacerbate/ or even cause hairloss. No doubt in my mind. And stressed out people tend to be horribly balanced people as well, so im pretty sure their diets are lacking.
Like the people who drink alot while in college because of stress, or eat pizza 5 times a week. I believe if you continue that for a long time you will see negative effects on your body. Including but not limited to hairloss, depression, all kinds of stuff.

[Tracy C]

I used nizoral 2% for awhile but the bottle said 2-3 times per week so i used it that much and threw it out.

The label on the Nizoral bottle does not say to use it 2 to 3 times per week. It says to use it every 3 to 4 days for eight weeks then continue once per week - or as directed by a doctor.

[Misery]

I am shedding like you can't imagine at the moment. And I've been off cigarettes for 3 months now, What I do know is when I was smoking 15 or so a day, my hair was not great, but it was not see through anywhere other than the crown, and now it's just horrendous, which is why when you mention shedding on Regaine, I wonder whether it will actually leave any hair left on my head? I hate to endorse smoking and I'm not doing that in any way. It kills you, but, I'm convinced this has played a huge part, and stress has hit the roof more now because of the worry of seeing hair fall out every day, A vicious circle

Nizorelle, the 1% version of Nizoral has definitely been stopped here in the UK, because I spoke to the makers on the phone and they told me it didn't sell so they stopped making it. I was getting on really well with that, but damage is done now for being off it nearly a year. Nizoral the 2% which doesn't like me very much is readily available in most places here in London and no prescription

I have taken a very high power Multi Vit as well as B Complexes in the last 3 weeks, but nothing is slowing this shed up, I've tried to eat healthier also and had no red meats for ages.

I will have to start on the Regain foam next week and pray it doesn't get rid of what I DO have left. That is my biggest worry because of how thin it's become so quickly.

Do you comb it in for more effect or just rub and how much can you use without going mad and this is going to get even worse, right?

[Tracy C]

Do you comb it in for more effect or just rub and how much can you use without going mad and this is going to get even worse, right?

You massage it into your scalp. It is very important that you get the medicine into contact with your scalp. Some will get in your hair but don't worry about that. Use only the amount directed on the bottle and no more.

To help you try to avoid shedding, start off with using it only once a day every other day for that first bottle. Then use it once a day every day for the next bottle. Then use it twice a day as directed from then on.