Sorry for all the questions

[Tracy C]

Dam these 40+ year olds that come on here miserable about hairloss piss me off.

This should not tick you off. MPB and FPB hurts. It does not matter how old you are - it still hurts. Shame on you.

[Exodus]

Tracy I really do admire your confidence and down-to-earth approach when it comes to baldness. You'e fought your own personal battle and still come across as a clear headed person to seek advice from.

I do think there is a lot of worry and people can't be blamed for that (look at my first post), but she's right, there does have to be a point when you draw the line and carry on.

[Misery]

Thanks for all your replies, I didn't think being depressed in your 40s would piss off people losing it in their 20s, and for you to say you'd be happy to lose it by then and basically saying... 'you've had your life', Let's see how you feel when you get there and if you'll be happy to lose it. I guarantee you won't.

For you guys, and lady, who have responded and stuck up for me on this thread I salute you, and appreciate it. Depression because of hair loss is crappy, despite your age, or sex. It hurts at any age... Obviously I'm not talking pensionable age here but none of us know how we will feel when we get to that age either.

john2399, why you should be pissed off and think it's only about your age is beyond me. FYI, you're wrong, I unfortunately am surrounded by people of my age and older who have loads of thick hair, and when I see them and they think it's hilarious to take the piss out of me losing mine, it hurts, even if I TRY to pretend it doesn't in front of them, behind closed doors is another story and It really does.

[Jcm800]

I hear you Misery - i've got an older bro who's 48 - hasn't lost a single hair from his head - loves calling me 'follically challenged' piss's me off deeply, hairloss hurts whatever age you are, if you care about your appearance.

[Misery]

Wow that was a lot but I am going to try to touch on everything, starting with quitting smoking...

Though it may seem contradictory, giving up smoking may have induced a temporary shed as your hair follicles are being fed clean blood now. If that is the case, the hair that shed out should start growing back in a few months or so.

The hormone that triggers hereditary hair loss is DHT, not testosterone itself.

The two proven medications that are FDA approved to stop hereditary hair loss and regrow some lost hair are Propecia (Finasteride) and Rogaine/Regaine (Minoxidil). Between those two, Finasteride is the most important because it blocks the formation of the hormone that triggers hereditary hair loss (DHT). Minoxidil stimulates hair that can grow back to grow back. These medications work very well when used together along with Nizoral shampoo. This regimen is know as "The Big 3".

Nizoral shampoo should only be used once a week. If you can get the 1% version, you can use that up to twice per week - but not more often than that. Over using nizoral or any other Ketoconazole shampoo can make your hair loss worsen.

The other shampoo's you have mention are just other brands that contain Ketoconazole as an active ingredient. The amount of Ketoconazole that is in those other brands is in question and has not been legitimately confirmed.

It is a good idea to replace your regular shampoo and conditioner with sulfate free shampoo and conditioner. If you use Nizoral only once per week as you should, your exposure to the sulfates in it is insignificant.

It is a good idea to ramp up to your doses slowly over time. This is generally true of almost every medication. So your thinking is on the right track there.

It takes a really long time to treat hereditary hair loss. If you started on full doses today it typically takes a full 12 months before you will know if your treatment is doing you any good. Obviously if you are ramping up that will take longer - but ramping up is still a very good idea. Try not to think about it during that time. Just move on with your life as best you can while you are treating it and hope for the best.

I do not know what kind of concealer you have been using but I do know that Dermmatch does not cause hair loss to worsen.

The safety and efficacy of RU is questionable. There is no good data available concerning the safety and efficacy of RU. Many young guys have jumped on the RU bandwagon - many of whom don't even have MPB. They post "before and after" pictures that look exactly the same - so this muddy's up the available info even further.

Did that touch on everything?

Thanks for this, appreciate the time to respond, Dermmatch and Nanogen. I don't know for sure, but it does seem to have maybe speeded it up...
I used to be on the 1% but they discontinued making it for some reason? And it was better for me I believe, at that time

Hey .

Dont be sorry. The only stupid question is the one we dont ask.

I am 46 years old and just opted for my first hair transplant.

Post up some photos of your head so we can see what is going on for you dude.

There are folks on here who are experts who can tell you what your next move is.

Thanks

I dont recall the guy trying to insult anyone. He came here because he is worried about his hair loss. Just like everyone else.

To him, its devastating. Thats all we need to know. We dont need to compare it to other guys losing their hair earlier or later. Its not about them.

This case is about this guy. Lets try to help him.

Thank you again!

We are close to the same age and I agree it sucks to start losing hair so late in the game. People don't believe it can still be embarrassing at 40+ but it is.

Hairloss can be fast or slow or in my case mostly slow but at times fast. It sounds like you are in the fast mode at the moment and when I was at that point, minox was not enough as it also took propecia to stop and reverse it.

I would start at a low dosage and gradually ramp up.

Just remember it can take a long time to work. In my case it took 9 months before I saw it working in the crown. There is no reason to give up just because you are 40+ like some people would want you to do. Medicine really works but you must be patient. For the past several generations, all the men on my mothers side have lost their hair in the same pattern. And I was losing my hair just like them , UNTIL I went on meds. My crown pattern was looking just like my uncles till I went on meds. The funny thing is his daughter is Always saying something about my hair...like she suspects I must be on something to still have it. Yesterday was no exception. As I was leaving Christmas eve dinner she said how good my hair looked and how I was lucky to have so much hair for a guy my age. Like its normal to be bald or something..no thanks..will keep it as long as I can. Good luck and remember to keep at it and not give up if things don't improve right away...
Happy holidays!

Thank you, what dosage are you on now, and start at, do you still do Minox?

[Misery]

I hear you Misery - i've got an older bro who's 48 - hasn't lost a single hair from his head - loves calling me 'follically challenged' piss's me off deeply, hairloss hurts whatever age you are, if you care about your appearance.

Thanks, I feel for you. Even when I had a FULL head, in my 20s, I would never have joined in with other ignorant people when they mocked anyone who was losing their hair. You never know when it will strike, and its incredibly insensitive to anyone of any age

[mpb47]

Sadly, it is normal for males to have lost hair by the age of 40. What is even more sad is these young guys who think they are balding in their teens and twenties when in all reality most of them only have the natural and normal adult mature male hair line going on. What is even more sad than that is the fact that they guys convince each other that there is no such thing as the natural and normal adult mature male hair line. Then they waist their lives away worrying about it. So very sad.

I agree that it's starts to get more and more common @ 40+ but not sure I would go so far as to say it's normal.

As far as the mature hair thing, the problem is no one knows about it unless you read medical literature. My high school biology textbook talked about mpb but never about that. Only learned about it years later by reading lit at a medical library on campus.

Seems like some of the people here still don't believe it and then there is another group that goes to extreme measures to stop it- yes I have read that female hormones promote hairgrowth up front/temple areas but I sure wouldn't go that far to get my 15year old hair back!

[Tracy C]

I agree that it's starts to get more and more common @ 40+ but not sure I would go so far as to say it's normal.

I suppose that depends on how you define normal. Haha Most men I see who are over 40 have lost some hair. To me that defines the norm. From what I can see, the 30's is when it becomes more common, 40's is when it becomes normal and 50's is when it becomes typical. Very few males can escape it without taking medication to prevent it.

As far as the mature hair thing, the problem is no one knows about it unless you read medical literature. My high school biology textbook talked about mpb but never about that. Only learned about it years later by reading lit at a medical library on campus.

That's probably because the natural and normal adult mature male hair line is not MPB. Therefore it makes sense that it might not be discussed during discussions about MPB. The male hair line is a normal part of virilization - just like a deeper voice, bigger hands, bigger feet, body hair and facial hair..

Seems like some of the people here still don't believe it and then there is another group that goes to extreme measures to stop it- yes I have read that female hormones promote hairgrowth up front/temple areas but I sure wouldn't go that far to get my 15year old hair back!

They kind of don't have a choice - because it is as obvious as the sky is blue. The problem is they refuse to accept it for whatever reason - and yes they are taking extreme measures to prevent it that will feminize their bodies. Whether they believe that or not, it will happen in time.

[mpb47]

I suppose that depends on how you define normal. Haha Most men I see who are over 40 have lost some hair. To me that defines the norm. From what I can see, the 30's is when it becomes more common, 40's is when it becomes normal and 50's is when it becomes typical. Very few males can escape it without taking medication to prevent it.

Just curious as to what you define as normal loss (as in 40's)...do you mean just minor loss in front or more advanced like a spot developing in the back?

That's probably because the natural and normal adult mature male hair line is not MPB. Therefore it makes sense that it might not be discussed during discussions about MPB. The male hair line is a normal part of virilization - just like a deeper voice, bigger hands, bigger feet, body hair and facial hair..

If people knew it was normal, they would not freq out as much and think they will be bald in 5-10 years...so yea it should be discussed. Even mpb itself was discussed in my biology class though many did not believe our teacher, which kinda ticked her off. But hey when you are a teenager you think you are invincible and baldling only happened to old sick helpless people..least that is what our class thought back then.

They kind of don't have a choice - because it is as obvious as the sky is blue. The problem is they refuse to accept it for whatever reason - and yes they are taking extreme measures to prevent it that will feminize their bodies. Whether they believe that or not, it will happen in time.

Again if no one tells you about it..you think it is mpb so education or lack of is the problem. Hey I tried to fight it too as information was not as freeflowing in the pre internet age.

[drybone]

This has given me a great idea.

I will go get all the pics I got from my late teens, twenties , thirties and finally 40s .

Then at age 46 putting my foot down and getting a hair transplant.

I do feel fortunate to have kept my hair so long compared to other guys who lost it at age 20, but nonetheless we all have to come to a basic choice.

Get busy living

Or get busy dying.

After 6 years of 'mid life crisis' confusion, I have come out of it. I have decided that growing old may be inevitable, but looking and feeling old is optional. I am going to choose to do what I can to be healthy and happy.

[Tracy C]

Just curious as to what you define as normal loss (as in 40's)...do you mean just minor loss in front or more advanced like a spot developing in the back?

What I am seeing in most men in their 40's is a bit more loss in the temples than the natural and normal adult mature male hair line - and obvious thinning in the vertex over a larger area. For men in their 50's, I see a large well defined bald spot on the vertex.

If people knew it was normal, they would not freq out as much and think they will be bald in 5-10 years...so yea it should be discussed.

I agree. We try to inform young guys about it here, but these guys attack us like Nazi's at a book burning party.

[mpb47]

What I am seeing in most men in their 40's is a bit more loss in the temples than the natural and normal adult mature male hair line - and obvious thinning in the vertex over a larger area.

Darn..that is a pretty good guess...and would pretty much would describe me without meds. And even with them still look like that first thing in the morning before washing/combing.

I agree. We try to inform young guys about it here, but these guys attack us like Nazi's at a book burning party.

Maybe here on this site but on other sites I see people talking about it and knowing it is normal. Not just guys but girls too..

[Misery]

Everyone thinks they suffer alone, even when coming on to boards like this, and the truth of the matter is that we know it's a hugely common thing to go through, at any age. I feel for each and every one who goes through this, because at the end of the day, it's horrible. My point being, wrongly worded, obviously, is that when some suffer early on, they accept it, and i know a lot of people who look better without hair, I'm not one of those people. But I also know that there are 20 year olds out there hating their life as much as some of us, because of one thing. Losing their hair.... It was a security blanket. My hair has fallen out at a rate of knots, it hasn't been gradual, and the docs and derms were useless beyond useless!

I'm ashamed to admit, that i don't even turn a light on in the bathroom anymore when I go to bed, I clean my teeth in the dark, I can't stand to look at myself, Pathetic? Probably... but I'm not wanting to be like that. It makes me physically sick to look at myself now I'm patchy and have lost crown and appears to be going all over from front to back too. Some professors and shrinks out there will give me all the underlying bollox about it being a deeper problem, and that the hair is only a part of it. I can assure one and all, that if i had my hair back to what it was all those years ago, I would be far more confident, not stay in every day of my life and fortunately now work from home so don't have to see anyone.

My ex once saw one of her exs when we were out shopping, and he had lost a lot of his hair. Her reaction, which actually sickened me was 'Hah, look he's lost his hair, great!'. I suppose that kind of stuck with me too, that if she now saw me, she'd say the same thing. I'm not saying she's typical of women because she wasn't. She wasn't pleasant and when I started thinning at back, she made some shitty comments to me too and to her mates just to bash me down a bit more.

But, I digress.... Yes, it's sad and pathetic, but that's my life now, so you see kids.... it's not native to you, but us grown ups can be sad and pissed off too.

[mpb47]

Everyone thinks they suffer alone, even when coming on to boards like this, and the truth of the matter is that we know it's a hugely common thing to go through, at any age. I feel for each and every one who goes through this, because at the end of the day, it's horrible. My point being, wrongly worded, obviously, is that when some suffer early on, they accept it, and i know a lot of people who look better without hair, I'm not one of those people. But I also know that there are 20 year olds out there hating their life as much as some of us, because of one thing. Losing their hair.... It was a security blanket. My hair has fallen out at a rate of knots, it hasn't been gradual, and the docs and derms were useless beyond useless!

I'm ashamed to admit, that i don't even turn a light on in the bathroom anymore when I go to bed, I clean my teeth in the dark, I can't stand to look at myself, Pathetic? Probably... but I'm not wanting to be like that. It makes me physically sick to look at myself now I'm patchy and have lost crown and appears to be going all over from front to back too. Some professors and shrinks out there will give me all the underlying bollox about it being a deeper problem, and that the hair is only a part of it. I can assure one and all, that if i had my hair back to what it was all those years ago, I would be far more confident, not stay in every day of my life and fortunately now work from home so don't have to see anyone.

My ex once saw one of her exs when we were out shopping, and he had lost a lot of his hair. Her reaction, which actually sickened me was 'Hah, look he's lost his hair, great!'. I suppose that kind of stuck with me too, that if she now saw me, she'd say the same thing. I'm not saying she's typical of women because she wasn't. She wasn't pleasant and when I started thinning at back, she made some shitty comments to me too and to her mates just to bash me down a bit more.

But, I digress.... Yes, it's sad and pathetic, but that's my life now, so you see kids.... it's not native to you, but us grown ups can be sad and pissed off too.

One thing I was told many years ago by a 78-80 year old man. You will never like it but it will be easier to deal with the older you get. I still hate it but not as much as I did when I was younger so I think what he said was true.

And don't worry about the ex issue...this took me a long time to figure out, but sometimes that is their way of empowerment. I used to fall for it too till I figured out the reason behind it.

And 2 long time (30+) years female friends did it for the most crazy reasons of all....
Tracy often talks about guys trying to fight natural recession and how it is normal etc. But a few girls have hangups about natural things too.

Friend #1 has always said how mpb is normal/natural and guys should not waste time trying to fight it as it is not unattractive with the only exception being the combover. She went on about how her brother freqed out when he started receding and hoped I would not be like him. She worked for a Dr's office and knew about propecia when it was still called proscar. That is how I first learned about it. But anyway while she was telling me not to fight mpb when it came, at the same time was convinced she was a fat blob and was saving up 10--15K to have her thighs /boobs lipoed. She is hot yet thinks she is really fat and admitted to excercising to the point of exhaustion when she was younger to try to avoid getting fat.

Friend # 2 issue is being a tomboy even at 35+ Even wore straps as a kid to keep her boobs from growing. To her , having boobs is the equivalent to us having mpb as crazy as that sounds. Has brought up my hair several times saying a spot in the back would be the next thing to happen and has pointed out several other guy friends when they first started balding. One guy made the mistake of saying she needed a bra and that sent her off the deep end for months.... Will most likely see her tonight and probably won't say a word about hair as long as noone mentions her boobs


So even people that appear fine can have hangups too

[Misery]

I don't think I'm settled enough or happy enough for the not bothering thing to kick in yet, and it's harder when you find yourself single in the latter part of 40, probably after being in relationships for all those years.

But... I do get your point, and in particular the second one, on an opposite scale. This same girl I mentioned was paranoid beyond paranoid about her flat chest, but I told her it really didn't bother me at all, and it really didn't, at all, and thinking about this now, she could pad-out till her hearts content, and it was on the inside, if you get my drift, the hair thing is more in your face, in every day life than that. I'm not blaming her for my paranoia, although her behaviour to some poor b'stard losing his hair, probably didn't help the way I felt and thought. But I would never have dreamed of making comment about her hang ups, or weaknesses, and yet she used mine against me.

And.. here's another thing to think about, here in the UK, we have many cases of women getting breast enlargement on the NHS because they're so depressed by their small busts, but if a guy has a hang up about his baldness it doesn't work the same way. Any idea why? Not the ladies fault of course, but it does seem to sway in their favour a tad more, like our vanity doesn't count?