The Ironman Procedure

[Arashi]

But that IS of course if all assumptions are correct. That is the whole reason why I wanted to look at Schweinhund's head, count the extraction sites and see if all assumptions are correct. Something for example that I can think of, what could dramatically improve the ratio, is if they drilled failed extractions twice (to re-try them).

I NEVER claimed all this is correct. ALL I'm saying is that I KNOW that during my surgery, i heard them drill way more often than that I heard them click for success (being close to that 2:1 ratio)

[Arashi]

So, again, that's where Schweinhund's case would have been really interesting. But all he's interested in is making a video of his hairs growing I think ...

[Arashi]

But what C5000 noted, I found too: when I asked them about failed extractions during the surgery, they really seemed not happy with those questions and answered them only VERY briefly.

So we just don't know a lot of stuff right now and that's why a case study would be great, so we can draw our own conclusions.

[gc83uk]

Hehe, in that case I would have been sitting there for 2 days (which I was afraid of when that assistant took over by the way). No, luckily the assistant called in the technician to take over again after 20-30 minutes. So let's assume my ratio was close to 2:1. In that case I would have 4800 extraction sites in my head (to get my 1600 grafts).

Did you take a peek at the petri dish? If so what do you remember seeing?

I must confess I didn't take much notice of the dish when I had mine, nor did I know at the time that the 3rd sector of the tray was for failed grafts.

I know this sounds like I'm making it up, but I would bet a large sum of money that the failed extraction section was empty on my last 2 procedures. I remember thinking to myself, these 3 compartments much be for 1 hair graft / 2 hair grafts and 3 hair grafts... I felt disappointed that I had no 3 hair grafts! This is a very vague memory though.

I'll definitely pay more attention on my next visit, I'm there in 3 weeks again.

So what would you like me to email to Kristel exactly? Type the email here as you want it and I'll send it.

[534623]

How many failed ext did IM have?

9,467 exactly. You can see them in my petri-dish photo.

[gc83uk]

Look I get it, your just worried and if anything you want to put this theory to rest so you can enjoy the rest of your recovery. Nothing wrong in playing devils advocate now and again.

[Arashi]

I'd ask her (or that other woman), this:

People on the forums are reporting that they're hearing (way) more drills than clicks for succesful extractions, somebody even reported he heard 4 drills for every succesful extraction. Does this mean that in his case, out of the 4000 extracted hairs only 1000 were succesful ?

Then, the regrowth number, being 80-85%, does this include these failed extractions ? If so, at 85% regrowth and 4000 drills, 3400 hairs would grow back, 3000 being the failed extractions (since these ALWAYS grow back, right ?), so only 400 succesful extracted follicles, hence a REAL regrowth ratio of only 40%. Is this correct ?

[c5000]

Yep. But seriously, when the assistant technician took over, she drilled about 20-25 times each time in a row and I would only hear 3 succesful clicks. So, ratio's can be a LOT worse than 3:1.

My extraction rate when a less experienced member of staff was working on me was also horrendous...

she worked on me for what felt like over half an hour, kept changing the depth of the drill etc and must have made 250 holes or more, at this point I asked her how many had actually been successful and she said "only 25"... at this point she must have guaged my concern as she got someone else to come in and my ratio improved to about 2 holes to get 1 successful graft

[Arashi]

You know what, GC83UK, maybe send 2 emails, to both doctors, independantely and see what they both answer, that would be really interesting

[didi]

back to basics,this is getting frustrating..as i said b4 the best way is to get someone to do 50 grafts test for 700 bucks...get 3 and 2s only...then simply monitor donor and receipient..its really simple...tht will prove everything,even spliting theory


im not happy tht they are not happy answering important questions,
why so many failed exts?

[Arashi]

back to basics,this is getting frustrating..as i said b4 the best way is to get someone to do 50 grafts test for 700 bucks...get 3 and 2s only...then simply monitor donor and receipient..its really simple...tht will prove everything,even spliting theory

Yeah that's the other thing, some people think Gho focuses on single graft, because they're reporting thin recipient area. That's another area where Schweinhund's photo's would come in helpful (instead of making his stupid video).

[c5000]

Did you take a peek at the petri dish? If so what do you remember seeing?

I must confess I didn't take much notice of the dish when I had mine, nor did I know at the time that the 3rd sector of the tray was for failed grafts.

I know this sounds like I'm making it up, but I would bet a large sum of money that the failed extraction section was empty on my last 2 procedures. I remember thinking to myself, these 3 compartments much be for 1 hair graft / 2 hair grafts and 3 hair grafts... I felt disappointed that I had no 3 hair grafts! This is a very vague memory though.

I'll definitely pay more attention on my next visit, I'm there in 3 weeks again.

So what would you like me to email to Kristel exactly? Type the email here as you want it and I'll send it.

Hi Gaz

I'm not sure they actually "extract" the "failed extractions" if you know what I mean? I think they leave them in the scalp. As there were say 50 holes made and every graft that was tweezed out was clicked in the "successful" clicker.

I'm almost positive they leave the unsuccessful extractions in the scalp

[Arashi]

Hi Gaz

I'm not sure they actually "extract" the "failed extractions" if you know what I mean? I think they leave them in the scalp. As there were say 50 holes made and every graft that was tweezed out was clicked in the "successful" clicker.

I'm almost positive they leave the unsuccessful extractions in the scalp

Yeah I know for SURE they did, since I could see some hairs sprouting back the next day (and Schweinhund, don't tell me they came out of a re-generated hair follicle, LOL). I didn't count these as regrowth, since it obviously was just hair cut of at the scalp level.

[didi]

How do we find out which tech at hasci is good?
On hasci website they have a list of all docs/tech but it says nothing about their level of experience, shame, would help so much

[c5000]

Hi Gaz

I'm not sure they actually "extract" the "failed extractions" if you know what I mean? I think they leave them in the scalp. As there were say 50 holes made and every graft that was tweezed out was clicked in the "successful" clicker.

I'm almost positive they leave the unsuccessful extractions in the scalp

Meant to say, they made say 50 holes, but only 20 or so were tweezed and then clicked.