NeedHairASAP

[topcat]

Hey Ironman are you going for complete hair restoration or just partial?

Do you know how many procedures you will be having and the doctors name? Is it one of the new guys or one that has been there for 1 year? Go for the guy with 1 year experience, more experience the better.

Looking forward to your updates in April. Can you post some before pictures now so we can see where you are at?

[hairysituation]

Which one (of the "most"), and what do you know about them?

Sorry, but just "blah blah blah" doesn't help anyone.

Ok. If you are so happy and convinced about the procedure, great! Go ahead and do it, and stop wasting time on these depressive hair loss forums. As I stated earlier, I hope everything works out well for you. I don`t have the energy right now to argue any further about this. It`s not productive. I have stated my opinion now. You know were I stand, and we all know were you stand.

Good luck!

[Delphi]

Ok. If you are so happy and convinced about the procedure, great! Go ahead and do it, and stop wasting time on these depressive hair loss forums. As I stated earlier, I hope everything works out well for you. I don`t have the energy right now to argue any further about this. It`s not productive. I have stated my opinion now. You know were I stand, and we all know were you stand.

Good luck!

I really wish Ironman would go away and live his life too. These discussions would be much more productive without him. I think this is an important topic, but it's like dealing with a child. Even when you try to show him some respect he just continues to act out. He just can't help it, and it makes every discussion so ugly and unproductive.

[534623]

These discussions would be much more productive without him. I think this is an important topic, but it's like dealing with a child.

Yup, that's the reason why everyone appreciates your posts - they are all fact based and productive. Absolutely. I could gather tons of worthful information just from YOUR posts! Now I know exactly how the HST procedure is working and what I can expect from it. Thank you so much!

[25 going on 65]

Watch this video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xapYyuI0lVA

... and you will know (34:20) that they are NOT "maketing tool meant" - in fact, they are just meant for such guys like you, who are mostly brainwashed by the many marketing tool meant before/after photos on hair loss forums.

btw - in this video, Dr. Gho is asking Spencer Kobren the same question: "To WHICH patient result do you/their refer?" And what do you know about this patients in general? So you have to ask Spencer Kobren about the answers.

HASCI is a company. Official company websites advertising a service are marketing tools. Gho does not deny this. This is not a public university or laboratory, and HASCI would not spend money on a website if it did not expect to attract customers with it. It wants people to look at the results and grow or at least maintain interest in HSI (You admit this with your comment "these are meant for guys just like you")
Gho says they want to create realistic expectations so they do not show their best work, and no one knows if this is true. of course as consumers, we would be fools to take his word for it since he is the company owner giving a media interview. Maybe he is right and maybe not.
The possible exception I have seen, as far as cosmetically pleasing recipient, is Sneijder and we still do not know how his hair looks grown out. (A short buzz is cosmetically preferable for sparse hair whether you are in a bright football stadium or a dim hallway, this is common knowledge on hair loss forums--if Sneijder has sparse grafts it would be much more obvious with his hair grown out while playing football)
Also why are we having this back and forth? Anyone can look for themselves and see that this body of work, as a form of cosmetic surgery, not very impressive by modern hair restoration standards. It is not disastrous but in 2012 there are plenty of clinics with far superior results. Maybe this will change as patients have more procedures and the doctors get more skilled, but right now we do not have evidence of that
Someone asked you for a dense result, you linked to scissorboy who does not have a dense result (in fact it is sparse in part of the recipient area). All I said was that this is not a cosmetically viable procedure as of right now, and going by these results we are talking about, it is not. Many others have the same opinion who have been watching this industry for far longer. If you want this procedure for regeneration and minimal scarring, OK I can kind of see your motivation, but why pretend the recipient is cosmetically competitive with what the top clinics are doing now?
Seriously why?

[ccmethinning]

Someone asked you for a dense result, you linked to scissorboy who does not have a dense result (in fact it is sparse in part of the recipient area). All I said was that this is not a cosmetically viable procedure as of right now, and going by these results we are talking about, it is not. Many others have the same opinion who have been watching this industry for far longer. If you want this procedure for regeneration and minimal scarring, OK I can kind of see your motivation, but why pretend the recipient is cosmetically competitive with what the top clinics are doing now?
Seriously why?

Show me a graft for graft comparison of how Gho is not "cosmetically competitive"?

[25 going on 65]

I would prefer to not keep spending time on this but ok.

Here are a series of frontal restoration procedures using roughly the same number of grafts. Notice the Gho patient’s video is poor resolution with no close ups, which helps to hide mediocre work (if there are better photos or video of his case for comparison, let me know), while the other three clinics have significantly higher resolution photos with closer (sometimes MUCH closer) shots:

1,408 grafts in one of the best (least poor) Gho hairlines made public so far (check the right side especially, at 1 minute there is a decent view--try 480 res to see slightly better):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tWm4qAj-9Q

1,441 grafts from Feriduni:

http://hairtransplantation.feriduni.com/en/pictures-videos-references/hair-loss-in-men/fue/fue-1441-fu.html

1,708 grafts from H&W (slightly larger treatment area than the other 2 patients):

http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_gallery/photo_viewer.php?pid=154&page=2&transplant_type=normal&nwScale=

The following DeYarmin case is not ideal since it doesn't offer multiple angles, but what is visible shows solid hairline work and I picked it for its low graft usage of 917:

http://www.deyarmanmedical.com/patients/ric

Of course there are many more examples of superior artistic work, with denser placement, than what Gho clinics have shown but I did not use them since you wanted similar graft counts and many examples have higher counts or do not list the number of grafts used.

[Conpecia]

Man that Feriduni result is beautiful. One of the rare instances where the patient grows his hair long after the procedure. Totally makes me rest easy knowing that can happen with well under 2k grafts.

As far as this thread goes, I don't really see the point in debating the quality of Gho's transplants compared to top clinics. The single most important innovation Gho gives us is the potential for donor regeneration. At a distant second is minimal to no scarring. I honestly could care less about the aesthetic quality of Gho's actual transplants. I just want to see more proof (which has been pretty well documented in this forum) of donor regeneration and the possibility of having enough donor hair to completely recover original density. That's why Gho matters. Hopefully his technique is consistent and he licenses it to other clinics in the near future. Whether his results "look good" is of far, far less importance imo.

[25 going on 65]

Man that Feriduni result is beautiful. One of the rare instances where the patient grows his hair long after the procedure. Totally makes me rest easy knowing that can happen with well under 2k grafts.

As far as this thread goes, I don't really see the point in debating the quality of Gho's transplants compared to top clinics. The single most important innovation Gho gives us is the potential for donor regeneration. At a distant second is minimal to no scarring. I honestly could care less about the aesthetic quality of Gho's actual transplants. I just want to see more proof (which has been pretty well documented in this forum) of donor regeneration and the possibility of having enough donor hair to completely recover original density. That's why Gho matters. Hopefully his technique is consistent and he licenses it to other clinics in the near future. Whether his results "look good" is of far, far less importance imo.

Yeah I can see that perspective. I can be guilty of just "thinking out loud" in these threads and when I saw the topic of discussion I threw my opinion into the mix. Probably part of the motivation was seeing (over the months) how sometimes Gho's procedure is hyped in unreasonable ways (eg claiming that the recipient is cosmetically world class) instead of focusing on realistic ways which it might be important (eg regeneration).
Some of the replies to my opinion made me feel like I needed to defend and clarify it, but you are right that there is not much point. Everyone can see what I was referring to. Although some will most likely still publicly disagree, I cannot accomplish anything by taking this further except to make past and future Gho patients feel bad about their decisions. Which was not my intention in the first place.
So I apologize if I came off that way. I wish everyone good luck who is going to try this procedure and as a fellow hair loss sufferer I genuinely hope it works out for them.

[Delphi]

I would prefer to not keep spending time on this but ok.

Here are a series of frontal restoration procedures using roughly the same number of grafts. Notice the Gho patient’s video is poor resolution with no close ups, which helps to hide mediocre work (if there are better photos or video of his case for comparison, let me know), while the other three clinics have significantly higher resolution photos with closer (sometimes MUCH closer) shots:

1,408 grafts in one of the best (least poor) Gho hairlines made public so far (check the right side especially, at 1 minute there is a decent view--try 480 res to see slightly better):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tWm4qAj-9Q

1,441 grafts from Feriduni:

http://hairtransplantation.feriduni.com/en/pictures-videos-references/hair-loss-in-men/fue/fue-1441-fu.html

1,708 grafts from H&W (slightly larger treatment area than the other 2 patients):

http://www.hassonandwong.com/patient_gallery/photo_viewer.php?pid=154&page=2&transplant_type=normal&nwScale=

The following DeYarmin case is not ideal since it doesn't offer multiple angles, but what is visible shows solid hairline work and I picked it for its low graft usage of 917:

http://www.deyarmanmedical.com/patients/ric

Of course there are many more examples of superior artistic work, with denser placement, than what Gho clinics have shown but I did not use them since you wanted similar graft counts and many examples have higher counts or do not list the number of grafts used.

Thanks 25 going on 65. I think that when it comes to having a hair transplant, the bottom line is the final result. Personally I think this debate has run its course. HST is just not producing these kind of results yet, but eventually things may change. I think we should just continue to watch Gho and his patients and hopefully he will begin to produce better and better results. I also wish Ironman the best of luck with his HST procedure. For me however and for many guys who would prefer a more aesthetically appropriate result for the time, emotional energy and money being spent for hair restoration, HST could be a disappointment. I agree with not making people feel bad about their decisions, so I think it would be great if both sides of the debate treat people with respect.

[534623]

Yeah I can see that perspective. I can be guilty of just "thinking out loud" in these threads and when I saw the topic of discussion I threw my opinion into the mix.

Okay - here is one of your so-called "opinion":

Anyone can look for themselves and see that this body of work, as a form of cosmetic surgery, not very impressive by modern hair restoration standards. It is not disastrous but in 2012 there are plenty of clinics with far superior results.

And here is my question - not opinion:

Why the hell don't you choose one of them - and therefore, what the hell are you still doing here??

This is a legit question - isn't it?

There are always some guys (also in this thread) who say "Dr. X can do this..." - clinic Y can do that..." - don't get me wrong guys, but don't all the other interested guys wonder also, what the hell these guys are still doing here? I mean, when they are soooo extremely excited about the "superior work" of other clinics/doctors? he he

Another question:
Why can you guys see me extremely rare posting any comments in any normal HT patient result thread - here, or on any other forums?

In advance - the answer is pretty simple:
I'm simply not interested. And the best part, at least I know why I'm absolutely not interested - whatever they "try" to show me.

[25 going on 65]

Okay - here is one of your so-called "opinion":

When I said I threw my opinion into the mix, I was referring to my initial post when I said something like "I don't know if it is all bullshit but it isn't cosmetically viable so far," a reply to another poster's opinion.
In subsequent replies I felt a bit put on the spot and did not always use the most diplomatic wording or tone, so I apologize to anyone I offended. I stand by what I expressed but should have expressed it differently.

And here is my question not opinion:

Why the hell don't you choose one of them - and therefore, what the hell are you still doing here??

This is a legit question - isn't it?

There are always some guys (also in this thread) who say "Dr. X can do this..." - clinic Y can do that..." - don't get me wrong guys, but don't all the other interested guys wonder also, what the hell these guys are still doing here? I mean, when they are soooo extremely excited about the "superior work" of other clinics/doctors? he he

I am not going the route of surgical hair restoration right now, because medication has maintained my hair so far. I use BTT because I am interested in hair loss and its treatments, which is also why I have commented on treatments I am not (currently) pursuing: minox, HT, laser therapy, etc

Good luck with any and all future procedures.

[Delphi]

Okay - here is one of your so-called "opinion":


And here is my question - not opinion:

Why the hell don't you choose one of them - and therefore, what the hell are you still doing here??

This is a legit question - isn't it?

There are always some guys (also in this thread) who say "Dr. X can do this..." - clinic Y can do that..." - don't get me wrong guys, but don't all the other interested guys wonder also, what the hell these guys are still doing here? I mean, when they are soooo extremely excited about the "superior work" of other clinics/doctors? he he

Another question:
Why can you guys see me extremely rare posting any comments in any normal HT patient result thread - here, or on any other forums?

In advance - the answer is pretty simple:
I'm simply not interested. And the best part, at least I know why I'm absolutely not interested - whatever they "try" to show me.

Come on Ironman, lets be honest here. You have spent a lot of time bashing hair transplant doctors or whoever you could in order to make your point and to try to elevate Gho. People have the right to state their honest opinions on the issue. Unlike the way you treat people, 25 going on 65, has treated you with respect. People don''t have to run and have surgery with anyone just because they have an opinion. Have you had surgery with Gho yet? Why is it so hard for you just to act civilized?

[JJJJrS]

Man that Feriduni result is beautiful. One of the rare instances where the patient grows his hair long after the procedure. Totally makes me rest easy knowing that can happen with well under 2k grafts.

As far as this thread goes, I don't really see the point in debating the quality of Gho's transplants compared to top clinics. The single most important innovation Gho gives us is the potential for donor regeneration. At a distant second is minimal to no scarring. I honestly could care less about the aesthetic quality of Gho's actual transplants. I just want to see more proof (which has been pretty well documented in this forum) of donor regeneration and the possibility of having enough donor hair to completely recover original density. That's why Gho matters. Hopefully his technique is consistent and he licenses it to other clinics in the near future. Whether his results "look good" is of far, far less importance imo.

Very well put and I hope more people start to see the bigger picture.

There's a reason why many people with hair loss are hesitant to get traditional hair transplants. Here we have a procedure that could potentially greatly reduce two of the biggest problems associated with HTs. People have to think beyond which surgeon's hairlines they like most or which docs are recommended by which organizations. This is about advancing the entire industry and getting the best possible procedures out there for prospective patients on a wider scale.

I know we might not see HST in North America anytime soon, but if we develop a consensus on HST and take a proactive approach, surgeons like Feriduni and Bisanga, who are right next door to HASCI, might one day be trained in HST. Maybe some of these practical issues (density, number of grafts per session, artistry etc.) can be improved if the ethical, quality surgeons cooperate with each other, which is in everyone's interests including Gho.

Those are issues further down the line of course but they're possibilities. For now, everybody who has any interest in hair transplants should be demanding for more information on the procedure. From the Aug. 28 edition of TBT radio show, it sounded like Gho offered to let Spencer follow the progress of one of his patients. Hook that guy up with a dermatologist or some other independent, third party, and you have an awesome opportunity to answer a lot of questions surrounding the procedure. That's the type of productive approach we need.

[garethbale]

I just want to see more proof (which has been pretty well documented in this forum) of donor regeneration and the possibility of having enough donor hair to completely recover original density.

Regarding your point about density, I had been in email correspondence with one of Gho's representatives. I asked them if full density is theoretically possible, given that the donor hair presumably regenerates. They said that while it it possible to extract again from donor sites, it is impossible to recreate full density again, as too many hairs are lost over time.