Another Gho question.

[534623]

btw - During so many years of hair transplants in general, HOW MANY of such close-up photos with shaved transplanted hairs could we see - I mean besides the shitty standard before/after photos by HT clinics??

...and there is an even bigger problem:

http://www.realself.com/question/scarring-alopecia-hair-transplant

When you scroll down this page, you can read 6 different HT doctor opinions concerning the hair transplant success rate for SCARRING ALOPECIA patients - like you.
Anyway, besides the well-known bold claims by hair transplant doctors (NONE of them will ever say and admit "I get bad results") - I have never ever seen any photos (not even shitty ones) of these "good results" of transplanted scarring alopecia patients - neither scientifically, nor anecdotally.
The only one I'm aware of, who did BOTH, is Dr. Gho.

[534623]

My first question is this, if they are not extracting singles as you say, (or at least deliberately not trying to extract singles), then why would I end up with so many singles in the recipient shortly afterwards?

I have also noted plenty of singles when the hair was long and short in the 1st and 2nd HST areas, that is simply not up for discussion. Half of all grafts I would say are 1 hair grafts, plenty of 2 hair grafts and indeed some multi hair grafts.

Here is another snippet/close-up from this photo...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/28/3202143/14th%20Jan%202013%20065.JPG

The left side shows the freshly implanted grafts (your 3rd HST) and the right side shows the "result" after 9 month from your 2nd HST.

So what exactly can everybody see?
If you look and compare the distribution and configuration of the "grafts" on the right side, is the destribution/configuration of the grafts on the right side the same as on the left side (the freshly implanted hairs)?
I will tell you something:
If there would be almost twice as much grafts on the right side (in 9 month at both sides) - this would simply create a PERFECT natural looking!!

btw - During so many years of hair transplants in general, HOW MANY of such close-up photos with shaved transplanted hairs could we see - I mean besides the shitty standard before/after photos by HT clinics??

[gc83uk]

because the really really good question is, why do these "singles" appear much thicker just after 9 month than the hair-shafts of the completely new implanted hairs from the donor area??

Yes why do they?

I concur with most of what you have said. And as you have also pointed out there are some 'singles' which appear to be singles at first glance and probably are singles (in the 3rd HST area photo a few hours after the day1 treatment.)

My first question is this, if they are not extracting singles as you say, (or at least deliberately not trying to extract singles), then why would I end up with so many singles in the recipient shortly afterwards?

I have also noted plenty of singles when the hair was long and short in the 1st and 2nd HST areas, that is simply not up for discussion. Half of all grafts I would say are 1 hair grafts, plenty of 2 hair grafts and indeed some multi hair grafts.

I personally believe they do extract some singles (which I know you think they don't). I would rather believe they do extract singles, otherwise I don't know how else I can explain it other than they are extracting a 2 fu and either implanting 2 single FU's or perhaps a part of the 2 fu extracted was damaged and only the single part was implanted.

Let's put it another way, if they are not extracting singles, then why do I have so many singles growing in the recipient area?

On the positive note, it is true these singles appear much thicker after say 9 months than the recently implanted hairs. I also think the new hairs after a few months appear thicker than the rest of my surrounding hair, something which was claimed to be the opposite by the naysayers not so long ago.

Despite what I've said above, I don't actually care too much, I would be happy if all the hairs were singles as long as I keep regenerating hair in the donor over and over. If the same 2 FU is extracted 3 times from my donor and it only gives me a single hair in my recipient each time, then, it's still a net gain of 3 hairs.

[534623]

That's of course the thing. Of course there's a limit to the maximum drills and grafts. Hence the 3000 grafts sounds nice but merely is a marketing gimmic when it's totally unrealistic for 99% of the patients. 1000-1600 grafts will still be the max for most patients.

That's right - I thought the same; it IS merely a marketing gimmic -imho. BUT it is also NOT a misleading claim, because they just say "A maximum of approximately 3000 grafts can be transplanted per day of treatment" - what's basically correct, because I have no doubts that it IS basically possible - unfortunatelly not for everyone, because "the number of grafts to be transplanted, which entirely depends on your wishes, the possibilities and the condition of the donor area" - so there is, in fact, nothing misleading; that means, it is basically possible to transplant UP TO 3000 grafts per treatment day, but the number per se depends on the condition of a patients' donor area.
In more simple words: Just because it's basically possible to transplant up to 3000 HST grafts per treatment day, it doesn't mean YOU can get or "can buy" this number.

[Arashi]

Yes, that's right. Now they can make 10,000 holes in your donor area - divided in 2 sessions.

That's of course the thing. Of course there's a limit to the maximum drills and grafts. Hence the 3000 grafts sounds nice but merely is a marketing gimmic when it's totally unrealistic for 99% of the patients. 1000-1600 grafts will still be the max for most patients.

[534623]

Their pricing scheme allows a reasonable cost for big sessions, because after 1800 grafts they charge 2.5 euros per graft. So we have:

the first 1800 grafts: 9400 euros
the next 1200 grafts: 3000 euros
total: 12400 euros

If one goes for two separate sessions of 1500 grafts each, he will pay 2 x 8700 euros = 17400 euros; 5000 euros more. Ouch!

...it's rather one reason more why you won't see much (if at all) 3000 HST grafts procedures in future.

Concerning "within 2 days 3000 HST grafts" - that's actually not what they say; here is what they say:

*) A maximum of approximately 3000 grafts can be transplanted per day of treatment.

Per day of treatment or within 2 days - who cares when most guys (even "virgin" guys) will not get such large extraction numbers.

[Vox]

wow, that will be a first. I take it you've sent over photos or had a consultation?

How much are they charging for 3000 grafts?

Their pricing scheme allows a reasonable cost for big sessions, because after 1800 grafts they charge 2.5 euros per graft. So we have:

the first 1800 grafts: 9400 euros
the next 1200 grafts: 3000 euros
total: 12400 euros

If one goes for two separate sessions of 1500 grafts each, he will pay 2 x 8700 euros = 17400 euros; 5000 euros more. Ouch!

Performing big sessions like that is obviously interesting to high NW guys for the reason just stated.

This surely has to be over 2 days, unless your going to start at 6am and finish at 8pm

This is what I think also.

[cocacola]

thats pretty good! IM what do you think is the density that gc has right now in his donor/unaffected hair, 1st/2nd procedure zone and 3rd procedure zone.

[534623]

In comparison to the completely new implanted grafts in the photo, the hairs from your 2nd HST next to them, appear almost like BEARD HAIRS concerning the diameter/thickness of the hair shafts - just after 9 month!

Concerning the type of grafts, I can actually just see the same as in the new implantation area - namely most of the grafts are 2-hair grafts, maybe some are indeed singles, but there are definitely also a few 3-hair grafts. That's what I can see. And just because you can see "singles" - it's absolutely NOT clear and you simply CAN'T tell whether or not they are really singles, because the really really good question is, why do these "singles" appear much thicker just after 9 month than the hair-shafts of the completely new implanted hairs from the donor area??

Just in case you guys don't understand what I'm talking about...


*complete/full size photo*: http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/...2013%20065.JPG

[534623]

But the result of your 7 weeks after photos from your 2nd HST...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/28/3202143/2nd%20-%20week%207%20recip%20001.JPG

...is still legendary!

Anyway, around 7 MONTH later - and shaved...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/28/3202143/14th%20Jan%202013%20065.JPG

So this photo shows the "shaved result" of your 2nd HST 9 month after.

In comparison to the completely new implanted grafts in the photo, the hairs from your 2nd HST next to them, appear almost like BEARD HAIRS concerning the diameter/thickness of the hair shafts - just after 9 month!

Concerning the type of grafts, I can actually just see the same as in the new implantation area - namely most of the grafts are 2-hair grafts, maybe some are indeed singles, but there are definitely also a few 3-hair grafts. That's what I can see. And just because you can see "singles" - it's absolutely NOT clear and you simply CAN'T tell whether or not they are really singles, because the really really good question is, why do these "singles" appear much thicker just after 9 month than the hair-shafts of the completely new implanted hairs from the donor area??

Furthermore, you can see in every other recipient photos the hard transition zone (like a line) between the slick bald area and the new implanted hairs of the 3rd, 2nd and 1st HST, what clearly shows the growth-rate (aka "yield") in general of all implanted grafts, which is definitely superb, because it appears that practically EVERY implanted graft produced hair.

So if someone can see something completely different in all these photos than just described - should immediately stop smoking the real hard stuff.

[534623]

The next photo shows my entire recipient from further away from the front view, the 3rd HST is still in the very early stages, 7 weeks today, however I've retained maybe 30% of grafts, but I'm not even thinking about that area until another 6 weeks at least.
Week 7 view of recip area

Sure, you shaved your hair including the new implanted hairs and a loss of around 70% (+/-) during the first 2 month or so, seems to be "standard" among HST candidates - like me. But the result of your 7 weeks after photos from your 2nd HST...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/28/3202143/2nd%20-%20week%207%20recip%20007.JPG

http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/28/3202143/2nd%20-%20week%207%20recip%20001.JPG

...is still legendary!
...in comparison with your 7 weeks after photos from your 3rd HST.

Anyway, click the 2 links, enlarge the photos and - what type of grafts can YOU see?
Then try to imagine how all these new and LONG hairs/grafts in the photos would look like, if they would be shaved as in your new recipient photos.

[gc83uk]

Iron Man, answer my previous post would you please.

[aim4hair]

I've been in contact with them and am having a procedure Q3 this year. They have confirmed that I will have approx 3000 grafts (Which was my request) but I haven't found out whether that is over 1 or 2 days yet.

how did hey confirm this ? i thought they usually give the least number of grafts they an do, not the max... plus you had FUE before, so if they really can extract approx 3000 grafts from your non virgin donor, that would be awesome!!

[534623]

I'm pretty sure it's going to be divided in 2 sessions, given the fact that they need a full day (7:30 am - 6 pm) for 1600 grafts already.

Yes, that's right. Now they can make 10,000 holes in your donor area - divided in 2 sessions.

[Arashi]

How did you manage to convince them to do that?

I think 3k grafts is the most they've ever done in a single session so you're getting close to breaking the record. I noticed that they increased the maximum number of grafts per session on their website also to 3k. I really hope this is a sign that they're becoming more comfortable with larger sessions.

I'm pretty sure it's going to be divided in 2 sessions, given the fact that they need a full day (7:30 am - 6 pm) for 1600 grafts already.