The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[Arashi]

Good news!! They gonna do it on whom ?

Unfortunately not on James. They have a client living nearby who can come by daily for photoshooting. I asked if he was also active on one of these forums, haven't got a reply yet.

But if this is a guy not active on any forums, then I think we'll have to figure out a way to make the test more reliable. Otherwise Didi is going to bring up the same argument as I did with Dr Nigams And it would actually be a valid argument. Doing the test on a person we can not trust greatly could diminish the value of the test.

So if this client of theirs is not a forum member, then I think the best thing to do is that we'd ask to have someone we can trust witness the surgery. I'd do it myself (I'm in the Netherlands as of next week), but again, Didi would bring up I'm not the most reliable witness So maybe we can ask the moderator of the Dutch forums, he's independent AND he's always been sceptic towards HASCI. It seems he's interested in HASCI though, so he might be a great person to supervise. Important would be not to only supervise the procedure but have him check up with the client 2 days after as well, to verify that the grafs weren't taken elsewhere on his scalp. If we can have him do that, then in theory it doesn't even matter where they got their client ...

[aim4hair]

Ok guys, I have awesome news. HASCI is going to re-do the test !! Details to follow, but they understood why the previous test failed and will take great care to make sure we won't need a 3rd one

From what I understand, it will be going down next wednesday already !

Good news!! They gonna do it on whom ?

[Arashi]

Ok guys, I have awesome news. HASCI is going to re-do the test !! Details to follow, but they understood why the previous test failed and will take great care to make sure we won't need a 3rd one

From what I understand, it will be going down next wednesday already !

[FearTheLoss]

Also, after doing this analysis I think a 100 graft test would be best. I always felt a 50 graft test is statistically too insignificant. The element of luck is just too big. I was afraid that 100 grafts might become more difficult to analyse but I spent about 4-5 hours doing this (I think about 130 extraction sites in the pictures) so that was really not bad at all. And the photo's are bad: the better the photo's the easier/quicker the analysis. 200 might be a bit too much and results in too much work, but 100 grafts is very doable. Heck, like said, if HASCI for some reason wants to go for 200, that's also fine with me, as long as the pictures are good.

Again, Arashi...really appreciate all your time and effort. This is important stuff and you could be paving the way for the hair loss community with this.

[Arashi]

Also, after doing this analysis I think a 100 graft test would be best. I always felt a 50 graft test is statistically too insignificant. The element of luck is just too big. I was afraid that 100 grafts might become more difficult to analyse but I spent about 4-5 hours doing this (I think about 130 extraction sites in the pictures) so that was really not bad at all. And the photo's are bad: the better the photo's the easier/quicker the analysis. 200 might be a bit too much and results in too much work, but 100 grafts is very doable. Heck, like said, if HASCI for some reason wants to go for 200, that's also fine with me, as long as the pictures are good.

[Arashi]

But still, compared the gc's pictures, these still suck hard. And keep in mind that gc's pictures were shot by an amateur with a cheap camera (hehe no offence Gaz ). I still think we should be pushing for a 50 graft test with photo's by a professional photographer. Or do you guys think these photo's are good enough ?

My conclusion is: yes we can now pinpoint exactly the grafts and we can tell how many hairs they have within an error margin of -1/+1 hairs, but that's still not good enough for a decent analysis.

[Arashi]

This one's pretty good too, it shows about the same area. If you look at the bold spot, which is in about the middle of the lower left quadrant, you'll see how to overlay. http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12717887.jpg

Quite a few hairs that are not that visible in the other picture are in this one (I mean when in doubt how many hairs the graft has).

Will upload the rest tomorrow (or later this evening).

[Arashi]

this is as good as it's going to get.

Pre-op:

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12717863/img/12717863.jpg

postop:

http://picturepush.com/public/12717870

(click on it for bigger, but it will be tilted for some reason).

I have more pictures, also different shots of the same area but this will give a good indication about the quality. What do you guys think ? Useful ?

[aim4hair]

Ok Ironman, you're telling me all this stuff and yet I'm on a thread created to carry out a test to prove HST and answer unanswered questions. A thread that is being populated not just by the likes of Didi and other Gho 'haters' but by several HASCI clients. I don't dispute that Gho has previously provided evidence but why is it that his customers are running around trying desperately to organise some official way in which to get their questions answered to a degree ay which they are left without any doubts. This doesn't sit right with me.

Just to make things clear, im all for this test but i don't any of gho patients have doubts regarding HST and that's why they all are going for another pass this year. However, it wouldn't hurt to have this test done so that critics stop the bold claims regarding the growth in recepient....

[UK Boy]

Sorry, I didn't know that "we" know that.



Excuse me, but do you think that this scientific test, for example, ...

http://www.haarstichting.nl/uploads/pdf/HaarStamcel%20Transplantatie%20Bijlage%2002.pdf

...has been oranized by idi...I mean... inidviduals like Dr. Nigam?

And do you think that the running scientific "test" with around 100-200 patients (mentioned in the 1st Kobren/Gho interview) is also organized by Dr. Nigam or someone else in the HT industry?

And do you know the difference between real SCIENTIFIC "TESTS" and BOLD CLAIMS at hair loss forums?

Ok Ironman, you're telling me all this stuff and yet I'm on a thread created to carry out a test to prove HST and answer unanswered questions. A thread that is being populated not just by the likes of Didi and other Gho 'haters' but by several HASCI clients. I don't dispute that Gho has previously provided evidence but why is it that his customers are running around trying desperately to organise some official way in which to get their questions answered to a degree ay which they are left without any doubts. This doesn't sit right with me.

[534623]

We know that Gho has the forums monitored so he is undoubtly aware of all this...

Sorry, I didn't know that "we" know that.

- he should be stepping in and sorting this out, getting the test organised for you himself ...

Excuse me, but do you think that this scientific test, for example, ...

http://www.haarstichting.nl/uploads/pdf/HaarStamcel%20Transplantatie%20Bijlage%2002.pdf

...has been oranized by idi...I mean... inidviduals like Dr. Nigam?

And do you think that the running scientific "test" with around 100-200 patients (mentioned in the 1st Kobren/Gho interview) is also organized by Dr. Nigam or someone else in the HT industry?

And do you know the difference between real SCIENTIFIC "TESTS" and BOLD CLAIMS at hair loss forums?

[UK Boy]

I agree JJJJrS. Haven't heard anything back yet, will keep you guys updated.

In worst case scenario and HASCI isn't willing to do another test, then there's still a possibility of doing it ourselves. I'm planning to get my next procedure august/september and if we still haven't seen a 50 graft test by then, I'll make sure to get a good DSLR camera with good macro lense, start practicing taking photo's in advance, shave everything days before the procedure, make photo's night and day so there's enough to do an analysis that finally yields the answers we all seek.

However let's hope that's not necessary because it's going to be a tremendous amount of work. But one thing is sure: we ARE going to get our answers my friend, don't you worry about that. It's just TOO important. Without having answers it becomes impossible to plan future treatments in a meaningful way.

Guys I think you're all amazing with the time and effort you're putting into this and I don't want to get into ant arguements with you for that reason. I just can't help but feel this isbteally wrong of HASCI especially if they don't agree to another test. You are all ex patients if theirs and you all want this information. You all paid A LOT of money and as such I think HASCI should be jumping to provide that info, it's not like it's just one random person - it's several of their paying clients. We know that Gho has the forums monitored so he is undoubtly aware of all this - he should be stepping in and sorting this out, getting the test organised for you himself not leaving his clients to use their personal time to Chase around doing it. Maybe it doesn't matter to you guys but it makes me care less for HASCI that they're not really putting their heart into sufficiently answering their clients queries.

[Arashi]

Thanks guys. Today I've got all donor+recipient photo's that were made during James procedure. I'll post some later today. One of the photo's is pretty good, unfortunately it's a post-op picture. But at least we can finally get a pretty good count of all red spots/extraction sites AND we can pinpoint all extraction sites (so we can monitor them). I'm pretty sure it's going to be in the 320-330 range from what I've counted so far.

Furthermore going to see if the pre-op photo's can be combined to get at least a good indication of the pre-op situation.

[c5000]

I really appreciate it Arashi. You've done an amazing job setting all of this up and a lot of us are very thankful for that.
I agree 100% about the importance of the test and making it as conclusive as possible. Hopefully, we'll be able to get this done. If HASCI is open to doing smaller 50-100 graft procedures, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time until things work out.

I second that JJJJrS, you, Arashi Gaz and IronMan have done so much to clarify the mystery of this procedure.

Gaz, Arashi will you guys still be going for more procedures? I don't think the issue wih this 50 graft test has put me off, I'm still going back for my second procedure in December.

[JJJJrS]

I agree JJJJrS. Haven't heard anything back yet, will keep you guys updated.

In worst case scenario and HASCI isn't willing to do another test, then there's still a possibility of doing it ourselves. I'm planning to get my next procedure august/september and if we still haven't seen a 50 graft test by then, I'll make sure to get a good DSLR camera with good macro lense, start practicing taking photo's in advance, shave everything days before the procedure, make photo's night and day so there's enough to do an analysis that finally yields the answers we all seek.

However let's hope that's not necessary because it's going to be a tremendous amount of work. But one thing is sure: we ARE going to get our answers my friend, don't you worry about that. It's just TOO important. Without having answers it becomes impossible to plan future treatments in a meaningful way.

I really appreciate it Arashi. You've done an amazing job setting all of this up and a lot of us are very thankful for that.

I agree 100% about the importance of the test and making it as conclusive as possible. Hopefully, we'll be able to get this done. If HASCI is open to doing smaller 50-100 graft procedures, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time until things work out.