The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[hellouser]

Yes, Mr. expert.

And now go out here because you're as useful as a hole in the head in such threads.

What, cat got your tongue? How's it feel to be on the receiving end, 'idiot' ?

[didi]

Man, always the the same odd story ...


What the hell do you guys still don't understand about TELOGEN hairs??

What you can see in the petri dish (section 1), are basically SINGLE-HAIR-FOLLICLES. But there could also be a few "transected" follicles - but most of these "transected" follicles are, in fact, 2-hair follicles whereby 1 follicle of this "2-hair follicle" is in TELOGEN - which counts for Kristel/Gho simply as "single follicle". And especialy THESE grafts, these grafts produce in the donor area mostly the "no regrowth" sites - but eventually a 2-hair graft in the recipient site (unclear).

I can see 2 hairs ...how can it be single? how do you know one of these follicls is in TELOGEN?

it looks like transected graft to me, the other part is left in donor which will keep growing and we will be able to see it in a week or so

[Arashi]

I can see 2 hairs ...how can it be single? how do you know one of these follicls is in TELOGEN?

Agreed with Didi here, but then again, I'd admit I'm no expert at this. But how do we know that those grafts really are 1's ?

[534623]

Here's just one problem I see, for example:

If we look at the subsection labelled '1' in the petri dish...

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12643640/img/12643640.jpg

The petri-dish photo (in general) is pretty cool, I think.

Anyway, COMPARE Gho's grafts with Dr. Rassman's "beautiful ultra-refined" FUE² grafts-photos:

http://www.newhair.com/Procedures/FUEE/index.htm

If you can't see any difference - buy new glasses ...

[gc83uk]

Man, always the the same odd story ...


What the hell do you guys still don't understand about TELOGEN hairs??

What you can see in the petri dish (section 1), are basically SINGLE-HAIR-FOLLICLES. But there could also be a few "transected" follicles - but most of these "transected" follicles are, in fact, 2-hair follicles whereby 1 follicle of this "2-hair follicle" is in TELOGEN - which counts for Kristel/Gho simply as "single follicle". And especialy THESE grafts, these grafts produce in the donor area mostly the "no regrowth" sites - but eventually a 2-hair graft in the recipient site (unclear).

OK noob question I.M.

Can you elaborate on this? Specifically where you say 'unclear'. Are you saying your not sure if these 2 hair FU's on which half of it is in telogen will eventually grow a 2hair graft in the recipient?

And "especialy THESE grafts, these grafts produce in the donor area mostly the "no regrowth" sites"...

I would have thought that because half of the graft is in telogen, that even though it's been extracted that at the very least the telogen graft when it wakes up again in the coming months, it will regrow in the donor. So why is it that you expect it won't?

Anybody else understand this?

[534623]

I can see 2 hairs ...how can it be single? how do you know one of these follicls is in TELOGEN?

yeah, again, everybody is fully aware about your IQ problems ...

HOW MANY EXPLANATIONS DO YOU NEED ??

[gc83uk]

I can see 2 hairs ...how can it be single? how do you know one of these follicls is in TELOGEN?

it looks like transected graft to me, the other part is left in donor which will keep growing and we will be able to see it in a week or so

The little I do know tells me that some 10 or 20% of hairs are in telogen.

How many singles were extract did James say? 150 was it?

What % of the 'singles' really are singles in that 1st compartment compared to telogen/transected would you say?

Theoretically there should be no more than 20% of the singles which are in telogen.

[534623]

OK noob question I.M.

Can you elaborate on this? Specifically where you say 'unclear'. Are you saying your not sure if these 2 hair FU's on which half of it is in telogen will eventually grow a 2hair graft in the recipient?

And "especialy THESE grafts, these grafts produce in the donor area mostly the "no regrowth" sites"...

I would have thought that because half of the graft is in telogen, that even though it's been extracted that at the very least the telogen graft when it wakes up again in the coming months, it will regrow in the donor. So why is it that you expect it won't?

Anybody else understand this?

I really wonder what good are all the interviews with Kobren/Gho:

A follicle in TELOGEN is very very SMALL contrary to ANAGEN follicles - and I'm talking about the FOLLICLE, and not the hair which you can still see in the petri dish/graft.

So because it is very very small - mostly the COMPLETE telogen follicle is extracted and therefore can't leave any portion of it behind in the donor area for regeneration.

Concerning "unclear": Unclear means simply "unclear", because there're no scientific studies out there (to the best of my knowledge) which can show any proof what, in fact, happens with telogen FOLLICLES (successful or not) if transplanted. Especially with the HST technique - I highly doubt that an transplanted TELOGEN-FOLLICLE has still the power to regenerate in the recipient area. It's practically the same problem as with a baby which is born much to early than after 9 month "gestation period". But again, I'm not aware about any conclusive scientific data concerning telogen-follicle transplantation.

What is this article all about??
Let me guess: Dr. Cole wrote this article just for fun ...

[JJJJrS]

Man, always the the same odd story ...


What the hell do you guys still don't understand about TELOGEN hairs??

What you can see in the petri dish (section 1), are basically SINGLE-HAIR-FOLLICLES. But there could also be a few "transected" follicles - but most of these "transected" follicles are, in fact, 2-hair follicles whereby 1 follicle of this "2-hair follicle" is in TELOGEN - which counts for Kristel/Gho simply as "single follicle". And especialy THESE grafts, these grafts produce in the donor area mostly the "no regrowth" sites - but eventually a 2-hair graft in the recipient site (unclear).

If these are simply 2-hair follicles where 1 is in the telogen state, wouldn't it make much more sense to put it in the 2-hair subsection of the petri-dish? I think these are more likely transections.

Without the before photo, all this makes it more difficult to determine an accurate regeneration rate.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12643640.jpg

The petri-dish photo (in general) is pretty cool, I think.

Anyway, COMPARE Gho's grafts with Dr. Rassman's "beautiful ultra-refined" FUE² grafts-photos:

http://www.newhair.com/Procedures/FUEE/index.htm

If you can't see any difference - buy new glasses ...

Of course, there's no comparison. But we already know the difference between FUE and HST just be comparing the donor scarring, which we can see very prominently in james bald's photo.

I just wonder what HASCI expects us to do with these photos. All it takes is one quick look to see that the photos aren't good enough for a detailed analysis... If the intention is to document and prove a 50-graft procedure, there's no point taking such poor photos or putting 200 grafts in james' temples. I appreciate the fact that they agreed to do this and offered itfor free, but they didn't succeed with the most basic goals.

[gc83uk]

I really wonder what good are all the interviews with Kobren/Gho:

A follicle in TELOGEN is very very SMALL contrary to ANAGEN follicles - and I'm talking about the FOLLICLE, and not the hair which you can still see in the petri dish/graft.

So because it is very very small - mostly the COMPLETE telogen follicle is extracted and therefore can't leave any portion of it behind in the donor area for regeneration.

Concerning "unclear": Unclear means simply "unclear", because there're no scientific studies out there (to the best of my knowledge) which can show any proof what, in fact, happens with telogen FOLLICLES (successful or not) if transplanted. Especially with the HST technique - I highly doubt that an transplanted TELOGEN-FOLLICLE has still the power to regenerate in the recipient area. It's practically the same problem as with a baby which is born much to early than after 9 month "gestation period". But again, I'm not aware about any conclusive scientific data concerning telogen-follicle transplantation.

That makes perfect sense, thanks, especially the part about the follicle being so small and being completely extracted from the donor, leaving nothing behind!

I also checked out the page you just linked and read this..
"Most importantly, cosmetically, all too often surgeons and technicians do not realize the concept that the hair is in a cycle and do not notice that there is a telogen hair next to the anagen hair. So this picture is of a two (2) hair follicular unit. But unfortunately, untrained hair transplant teams assume that this is a one (1) hair follicular unit and implant BOTH hairs. This is not that big a problem unless it is implanted in the frontal hair line. Two hairs will eventually grow out rather than the preferred one (1) hair. If this happens often enough, the hairline will look less natural."

So this is why you say it's unclear right? Because there is contradicting information out there about this and of course no scientific proof?

I think I also read that there is a better chance of FUT telogen growing in the recipient than regular FUE telogen, is that logical? I know it's not relevant, however I am interested!

[cocacola]

nice stuff guys i wanna thank everyone who participates in this directly as our james and indirectly im, arashi didi and all the other professional analysts lol

Hope we will have a clear picture of everything very soon

[534623]

If these are simply 2-hair follicles where 1 is in the telogen state, wouldn't it make much more sense to put it in the 2-hair subsection of the petri-dish? I think these are more likely transections.

No the problem is that most guys can't think and read ...

As just mentioned, I guess they put them into the section-1 BECAUSE they know already that such a graft will produce a SINGLE-HAIR GRAFT!

THEY know this in advance, what just indicates, that my "theory" is right - and that follicles in TELOGEN are definitely NOT the ideal follicles for transplantation (such a 2-hair graft with 1 in telogen will just produce a single-hair follicle/graft).
Of course the same rule for indeed transected follicles.

So where is the difference between a transected follicle and a follicle in telogen from a VIEWERS point of view?

Sorry guys, I can't post over and over again Dr. Coles explanations/link.

[Arashi]

I just wonder what HASCI expects us to do with these photos. All it takes is one quick look to see that the photos aren't good enough for a detailed analysis... If the intention is to document and prove a 50-graft procedure, there's no point taking such poor photos or putting 200 grafts in james' temples. I appreciate the fact that they agreed to do this and offered itfor free, but they didn't succeed with the most basic goals.

I must say that I'm also VERY disappointed at the photo's they supplied. Especially the lack of a good pre-op photo is extremely disappointing. Now we're having this whole debate here regarding those 'singles' ...

[534623]

Hope we will have a clear picture of everything very soon

Yeah, concerning the donor regeneration in about 14 days;
and concerning the recipient area in about 12 month.

[534623]

I must say that I'm also VERY disappointed at the photo's they supplied. Especially the lack of a good pre-op photo is extremely disappointing. Now we're having this whole debate here regarding those 'singles' ...

Actually, we don't know whether or not all the photos so far are just JamesBald's OWN photos or those of Kristel's. Do we?