Cetirizine

[Desmond84]

Oh NO!

Guys I just came across this study and it seems like Cetrizine will not alter PGD2 all that much.

Loratadine (Claratyne) however, showed marked reduction of PGD2! So could these guys just be having a placebo effect?!

Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7690526

[Desmond84]

Also, guys DO NOT USE NSIADs, Aspirin or COX-2 inhibitors for hairloss!!!

MPB is a chronic condition, but these drugs can not be taken on a chronic basis. You will end up with some nasty adverse effects 2-3 months into it.

I'll be doing more research on potential antihistamines and will get back to you

[JJacobs152]

Also, guys DO NOT USE NSIADs, Aspirin or COX-2 inhibitors for hairloss!!!

MPB is a chronic condition, but these drugs can not be taken on a chronic basis. You will end up with some nasty adverse effects 2-3 months into it.

I'll be doing more research on potential antihistamines and will get back to you

Why not a cox-2? It won't lead to the s/e of cox-1 inhibition...

[Desmond84]

Why not a cox-2? It won't lead to the s/e of cox-1 inhibition...

JJ,

It's COX-2 selectivity is only relevant in terms of reducing Gastrointestinal adverse effects (ulcers, indigestion, reflux) NOT its renal & cardiovascular complications. We have patients on Celecoxib for arthritis and they suffer from a range of sides due to their need to use this stuff long term. Here's some of its potential long-term effects:

• Aggravated hypertension,
• Angina pectoris,
• coronary artery disorder,
• MI,
• arrhythmia
• Aggrevation of prostate disorders
• etc

[Desmond84]

After 6 months or so it also can elevate your liver function tests (ALT & AST), which might have some potential damage to your liver!

Unfortunately, COX-2 NSAIDs didn't end up being as awesome as they made it out to be

That's why 4 of them went off the market due to their potential to cause fatal liver toxicity (hepatotoxicity) and Myocardial infarctions (heart attacks)

[thechamp]

Found this

» I'm curious what you have to say but keep in mind that I personally would
» prefer a legitimate PGD2 antagonist made by a drug company over some health
» food store kind of thing where people say bread crust inhibits PGD2 or
» seaweed or some such thing.
»
» I'm not disrespecting you but i do want to say that we really should be
» focused on real drugs and not gimmicky things that are not going to work.
» The thing is that you want to apply or digest a drug that antagonizes the
» PGD2 in a potent and pure manner. I really don't go for these gimmicky
» shortcuts.
»
» That having been said I would be interested in what you have to say
» although I am concerned that it will be some kind of gimmicky trick to try
» to inhibit PGD2 in a way that simply will not get the job done.

I am talking about a known drug that is off patent now and successfully used everyday by people to treat nasal allergies and asthma. Cromolyn Sodium or other mast cell stabilizers.

Mast cells secrete PGD2. When you use a stabilzer they cannot do this.

The problem is when you use it for instance in the over the counter preperation NASALCROM. you need to use it consistantly a minimum of 4 times a day to keep the mast cells stabilized. For some people it takes a few weeks have a really good effect.

IT DEFINATELY WORKS. UNEQUIVICAL

Questions are.

What concentration and what vehicle for scalp?

Will people want to rub something on their head every 4 to 5 hours?

Perhaps there is a solution that will get the stuff into your scalp without messing up your hair too bad and you can give a misting multiple times a day with something that will dry quickly.

Then perhaps suspend it in something that you put on at night that would stay moist and keep it effective while you sleep ( 8 hours) and washed out in morning.

My only point really is. There is a KNOWN drug produced by pharma RIGHT NOW that definitely inhibits PGD2.This is just factual. Easily looked up.

Even if it didnt completely inhibit it or it was impractical to apply so often PERHAPS the amount of inhibition would reduce the current finding of 2-3 times the amount of PGD2 in balding scalp to non balding.

AS you mentioned in another post ( i believe it was you) I could see this making something like bimatoprost more effective.

Add in other known cox-2 inhibitors (even simple stuff like aspirin which is proven). I personally have faith in Tumeric/Curcumin (even sloan kettering suggests it is helpful with inflammation and cancer). And MAYBE just maybe you get a synergistic or even multiplier effect. Hit it from multiple angles.

Actually I would think that ANYTHING that reduces inflammation would help ANY other treatment even if it was a sliver bullet itself. ESPECIALLY something that so directly inhibits inflammation like a mast cell stabilizer.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT IN MY MIND. In my research I have found that one of the ways to de stabilize a mast cell and cause it to release PGD2 is expose it to alcohol. ALC is in almost every thing you put on your dang scalp. So you put something on to clean, stimulate your hair and BAM!!!!! you cause PGD2 to be released probably making it ineffective. It would appear that bald scalp is in a state of allergic/hyper immune response so anything that would promote mast cell degranulation which is probably happening at elevated levels already would be like ALC on a fire.

Phew. OK So it would seem that a mast cell stabilzer SHOULD BE IN ALL PREPARATIONS that contain ALC!!!




Rudy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

[Desmond84]

» I'm curious what you have to say but keep in mind that I personally would
» prefer a legitimate PGD2 antagonist made by a drug company over some health
» food store kind of thing where people say bread crust inhibits PGD2 or
» seaweed or some such thing.
»
» I'm not disrespecting you but i do want to say that we really should be
» focused on real drugs and not gimmicky things that are not going to work.
» The thing is that you want to apply or digest a drug that antagonizes the
» PGD2 in a potent and pure manner. I really don't go for these gimmicky
» shortcuts.
»
» That having been said I would be interested in what you have to say
» although I am concerned that it will be some kind of gimmicky trick to try
» to inhibit PGD2 in a way that simply will not get the job done.

I am talking about a known drug that is off patent now and successfully used everyday by people to treat nasal allergies and asthma. Cromolyn Sodium or other mast cell stabilizers.

Mast cells secrete PGD2. When you use a stabilzer they cannot do this.

The problem is when you use it for instance in the over the counter preperation NASALCROM. you need to use it consistantly a minimum of 4 times a day to keep the mast cells stabilized. For some people it takes a few weeks have a really good effect.

IT DEFINATELY WORKS. UNEQUIVICAL

Questions are.

What concentration and what vehicle for scalp?

Will people want to rub something on their head every 4 to 5 hours?

Perhaps there is a solution that will get the stuff into your scalp without messing up your hair too bad and you can give a misting multiple times a day with something that will dry quickly.

Then perhaps suspend it in something that you put on at night that would stay moist and keep it effective while you sleep ( 8 hours) and washed out in morning.

My only point really is. There is a KNOWN drug produced by pharma RIGHT NOW that definitely inhibits PGD2.This is just factual. Easily looked up.

Even if it didnt completely inhibit it or it was impractical to apply so often PERHAPS the amount of inhibition would reduce the current finding of 2-3 times the amount of PGD2 in balding scalp to non balding.

AS you mentioned in another post ( i believe it was you) I could see this making something like bimatoprost more effective.

Add in other known cox-2 inhibitors (even simple stuff like aspirin which is proven). I personally have faith in Tumeric/Curcumin (even sloan kettering suggests it is helpful with inflammation and cancer). And MAYBE just maybe you get a synergistic or even multiplier effect. Hit it from multiple angles.

Actually I would think that ANYTHING that reduces inflammation would help ANY other treatment even if it was a sliver bullet itself. ESPECIALLY something that so directly inhibits inflammation like a mast cell stabilizer.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT IN MY MIND. In my research I have found that one of the ways to de stabilize a mast cell and cause it to release PGD2 is expose it to alcohol. ALC is in almost every thing you put on your dang scalp. So you put something on to clean, stimulate your hair and BAM!!!!! you cause PGD2 to be released probably making it ineffective. It would appear that bald scalp is in a state of allergic/hyper immune response so anything that would promote mast cell degranulation which is probably happening at elevated levels already would be like ALC on a fire.

Phew. OK So it would seem that a mast cell stabilzer SHOULD BE IN ALL PREPARATIONS that contain ALC!!!




Rudy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Hey champ

I've been thinking about Cromolyns as well. The trouble is PGD2 gets released by a host of immune cells, mast cells is only one of them. It might work though. We have to find out which immune cells are responsible for releasing PGD2 in the scalp. I'll be doing a bit of research on it this weekend and we'll get back to you guys.

But Cromolyns are definitely an option, no doubt about it. AND THEY ARE LITERALLY SIDE EFFECT FREE!!! There's literally no common side effect ever reported on this stuff which is awesome

[thechamp]

Thanks Desmond

How do we get Cromolyns? From where

[thechamp]

More info

Post reply
http://http://www.valuepharmaceuticals.com/Indocin.php

Indometacin - Shown to block dp2 (crth2 receptor)

We already have the cures available.
Get the powder form and make your own topical since I didn't find any online.

Or use a compounding pharmacy overseas perhaps.

For DP1 receptor blockade aspirin works great. The topical form
of aspirin is salicylic acid which is a common acne/skin treatment topical obtained from any store.

Bengay also contains a very similar ingredient as to aspirin and it also helps relax muscles ( the galea and other areas that give male pattern baldness the shape)

Also, DP2 when it is increased, get this: increases intracellular CALCIUM

That is what me and many others have been saying , that calcification leads to hair follicle death. Well now we know that happens due to DP2.

Vinegar I think is another item (acetic acid) that i think is a dp2 receptor antagonist.

So instead of waiting for some company to make pills and products that actually already exist and by the way turns out this research on dp2 has been released partially already for many years... so I dont' see why Costralies or whatever his name is taking all the credit.

[Pate]

Oh NO!

Guys I just came across this study and it seems like Cetrizine will not alter PGD2 all that much.

Loratadine (Claratyne) however, showed marked reduction of PGD2! So could these guys just be having a placebo effect?!

Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7690526

Interesting. So according to that model, Claratyne should be far more effective than Zyrtec - assuming Claratyne is also easily water-soluble and can be absorbed topically.

Although I guess we need to keep in mind that that article is referring to a very specific model called nasal antigen challenge, which may not apply to either the scalp in particular or the rest of the body generally.

We have found other papers that cite Zyrtec as inhibiting PGD2 so it may just be that in this particular nasal situation that Claratyne is better than Zyrtec.

But still. Sounds like somebody needs to try Claratyne too!

Any info on Claratyne's solubility in water?

[thechamp]

Claratyne

Funny you say that my uncle is 63 years old takes Claratyne every day for allergies has a full head of hair!!

[thechamp]

Hmmmm could be risky

(loratadine) Tablets, Syrup, and Rapidly-Disintegrating Tablets
Now available Over-The-Counter (OTC); No prescription needed.

DRUG DESCRIPTION
Loratadine is a white to off-white powder not soluble in water, but very soluble in acetone, alcohol, and chloroform. It has a molecular weight of 382.89, and empirical formula of C22H23CIN2O2; its chemical name is ethyl 4-(8-chloro-5,6-dihydro-11H-benzo[5,6]cyclohepta[1,2-b]pyridin-11-ylidene) -1-piperidinecarboxylate and has the following structural formula:


CLARITIN Tablets contain 10 mg micronized loratadine, an antihistamine, to be administered orally. It also contains the following inactive ingredients: corn starch, lactose, and magnesium stearate.

CLARITIN Syrup contains 1 mg/mL micronized loratadine, an antihistamine, to be administered orally. It also contains the following inactive ingredients:citric acid, edetate disodium, artificial flavor, glycerin, propylene glycol, sodium ben-zoate, sugar, and water. The pH is between 2.5 and 3.1.

CLARITIN REDITABS (loratadine rapidly-disintegrating tablets)contain 10 mg micronized loratadine, an antihistamine, to be administered orally. It disintegrates in the mouth within seconds after placement on the tongue, allowing its contents to be subsequently swallowed with or without water. CLARITIN REDITABS (loratadine rapidly-disintegrating tablets) also contain the following inactive ingredients: citric acid, gelatin, mannitol, and mint flavor.

What are the possible side effects of loratadine?

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficult breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Call your doctor at once if you have a serious side effect such as:

fast or uneven heart rate;
feeling like you might pass out;
jaundice (yellowing of your skin or eyes); or
seizures (convulsions).
Less serious side effects may include:

headache;
nervousness;
feeling tired or drowsy;
stomach pain, diarrhea;
dry mouth, sore throat...

[ovoxo]

so maybe ethanol/ppg vehicle for loratadine?

[Desmond84]

Good News

Hey guys,

I thought it was really odd how Cetirizine had shown no effect on PGD2, particularly since Cetirizine is far more effective than Loratadine (Claratyne) & Fexofenadine (Telfast) when it comes to SKIN allergies.

So I did a lot of digging and found that within 5 hours of its oral use it inhibits PGD2 production in the skin by at least 50%!

I think the previous study was looking at PGD2 levels in nasal mucosa. I guess it makes sense. For example, antihistamines don't seem to work when you have a runny nose due to a cold (minimum effect on PGD2 in the nose) so we have to resort to Sudafed (Pseudoephedrine) to dry up and unblock our nose

Here's a study for you guys to look at. This was conducted during its approval process

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2469708

So, stick to Cetirizine for now, until I dig up more info on Cromolyns.

P.S. If Cromolyns are more effective, there's a product called INTAL SPINCAPS, which are Cromolyn based capsules that go into a inhaler device. We can just open one capsule everynight, mix it with Emu oil & Propylene Glycol & voila

[thechamp]

Desmond

Desmond all this sounds to good to be true if we only knew years ago about this dam it lol!