Hidden Gem -> MSM/Vit C & TRX2 - a fin alternative?

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  • bananana
    Inactive
    • Feb 2012
    • 524

    #91
    Originally posted by gutted
    have no idea. probably best to contact them and ask if its safe for oral use.
    Ok, I'll do that. It says (in german) this is a "resource" for making MSM supplements.

    Comment

    • FlightTL
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2011
      • 841

      #92
      I remember reading somewhere that eating raw onions was healthy for hair, due to its rich sulfur content.

      Plus there is a guy online (website: hairlossreversible.com) who says his scalp exercises plus good nutrition helped him have the youthful hair till his 80s.

      Comment

      • Jasari
        Senior Member
        • May 2011
        • 251

        #93
        From about the age of 18-21 my hair was probably the thickest it has been my entire life. I was actually taking 20grams of MSM per day primarily to help with tendon injuries i was suspect to at the time. After a while my injuries became a lot better and I dropped the MSM. Potentially co-incidence but I noticed my hair loss soon after with that all too familiar case of running your fingers through your hair and just knowing the density isn't the same. I'm 25 atm so I'm going to give it a try again. I'm already on trx2.

        There really appears to be quite a big upper limit to the MSM. Do you think this ratio is kicked out of whack if you take 20 grams plus?

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        • gutted
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2011
          • 1397

          #94
          Originally posted by Jasari
          From about the age of 18-21 my hair was probably the thickest it has been my entire life. I was actually taking 20grams of MSM per day primarily to help with tendon injuries i was suspect to at the time. After a while my injuries became a lot better and I dropped the MSM. Potentially co-incidence but I noticed my hair loss soon after with that all too familiar case of running your fingers through your hair and just knowing the density isn't the same. I'm 25 atm so I'm going to give it a try again. I'm already on trx2.

          There really appears to be quite a big upper limit to the MSM. Do you think this ratio is kicked out of whack if you take 20 grams plus?
          no 20+ grams is fine, but for cost effectiveness anything between 9-15 grams per day is enough.

          Comment

          • Davey Jones
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2012
            • 356

            #95
            Originally posted by Jasari
            There really appears to be quite a big upper limit to the MSM. Do you think this ratio is kicked out of whack if you take 20 grams plus?
            Just a side note: high sulfur intake has been suspected in cases of thiamine (B1) deficiency in animals. Studies with cattle, if I remember right. But that's not a phenomenon that's restricted to non-human animals. Vitamins and minerals compete with each other for absorption. For instance, Vitamin C and copper are absorbed via the same pathways, thus competition. I don't know what a "high intake" of sulfur would be for people, but if you're going to dose that high, you might want to consider watching out for symptoms of B1 deficiency. And backing off a little if you notice any.

            But as another side note, don't get your hopes too high. I realize that you stopped taking MSM and then your hair started to thin, but that is a pretty common time in life to expect hair thinning anyway. I can vouch for that. I'm not saying this sort of treatment doesn't work, but there is not a lot of proof. Try to approach it hoping that it will work, but realizing and accepting that it might not.

            I'm highly considering it myself, as soon as I sort out some money difficulties. The difficulty being that it's very difficult to have no money.

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            • bananana
              Inactive
              • Feb 2012
              • 524

              #96
              Gutted, what do you think about intake of equol and MSM, can they interfere with each other?

              I'm taking equol for almost 2 months and I'm seeing lowered itch, now I plan to start MSM, can I take those together?
              Any thoughts?

              Comment

              • gutted
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2011
                • 1397

                #97
                Originally posted by bananana
                Gutted, what do you think about intake of equol and MSM, can they interfere with each other?

                I'm taking equol for almost 2 months and I'm seeing lowered itch, now I plan to start MSM, can I take those together?
                Any thoughts?
                it will depend on how much of your dht is supressed through equol.
                If its a pretty low dosage. Then it probably wouldnt hurt much as long as a balance is maintained, which is difficult to figure out since everyone is unique.

                Anything that affects androgen balance, whether its through 5 alpha reductase suppression or direct dht suppression will have an effect on efficacy.

                Comment

                • bananana
                  Inactive
                  • Feb 2012
                  • 524

                  #98
                  Originally posted by gutted
                  it will depend on how much of your dht is supressed through equol.
                  If its a pretty low dosage. Then it probably wouldnt hurt much as long as a balance is maintained, which is difficult to figure out since everyone is unique.

                  Anything that affects androgen balance, whether its through 5 alpha reductase suppression or direct dht suppression will have an effect on efficacy.
                  Hm, I understand, but equol is not a dht blocker, is it? It bounds to DHT and stops it from bounding to receptors in follicule area (this is my layman explanation), so the DHT is there, but can't hurt the follicule.
                  I'm taking 10 mg daily.

                  Comment

                  • gutted
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1397

                    #99
                    Originally posted by bananana
                    Hm, I understand, but equol is not a dht blocker, is it? It bounds to DHT and stops it from bounding to receptors in follicule area (this is my layman explanation), so the DHT is there, but can't hurt the follicule.
                    I'm taking 10 mg daily.
                    equol is a dht blocker. Fin more correctly is a 5alphareductase blocker (indirect dht blocker)
                    your still lowering your levels of dht in the body, the only difference between fin is the way you are achieving this. This may cause an imbalance which (depending on the dose you take) causes the body to upregulate, in what ever way it sees fit.

                    Comment

                    • MrBlonde
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2012
                      • 261

                      Originally posted by gutted
                      equol is a dht blocker. Fin more correctly is a 5alphareductase blocker (indirect dht blocker)
                      your still lowering your levels of dht in the body, the only difference between fin is the way you are achieving this. This may cause an imbalance which (depending on the dose you take) causes the body to upregulate, in what ever way it sees fit.
                      Your against all types of DHT blockers with this system 100% than gutted? Even a topical like Lipogaine is a no no you think?



                      Neogenic and Minox are okay though. I know even topical DHT blockers can work their way into your bloodstream but wouldn't that amount be minimal enough not to effect your TRX2 reccomendations?

                      Comment

                      • gutted
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1397

                        Originally posted by MrBlonde
                        Your against all types of DHT blockers with this system 100% than gutted? Even a topical like Lipogaine is a no no you think?



                        Neogenic and Minox are okay though. I know even topical DHT blockers can work their way into your bloodstream but wouldn't that amount be minimal enough not to effect your TRX2 reccomendations?


                        Yes any sort of internal dht blocker will affect the efficacy of this, and when it does affect the efficacy, it affects it big time.
                        As for lthe azeliac acid in lipogaine im aware its a dht inhibtor, it could get into the blood stream and affect androgen balance but since its in topical form it "may" be minimal.

                        I say "may" because even if you decide to block 100% dht "topically" there is still a possibility that the hair follicle cells will continue to upregulate AR's if they do not recieve enough dht stimulation, so the real key here is to find a balance and maintain that balance.
                        Im currently experimenting with this scenario so cant say anything for definite but early indications say do not use any dht blockers with the combo, internal or topical.

                        I dont know what to say about neogenic for now, i wont comment on it.
                        Minox is OK, but bothersome for some with long hair and incovenient, so isnt really neccasary, this combo does what minox does internally and consistently as well as addresses the real cause of baldness. Im pretty confident this can take over minoxidil growth, just need someone to be a guine pig!

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                        • ovoxo
                          Member
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 72

                          well, i'm on msm and vitamin c, so i'll let you know if something happens

                          Comment

                          • gutted
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1397

                            Originally posted by ovoxo
                            well, i'm on msm and vitamin c, so i'll let you know if something happens
                            12 month dedication required!

                            Comment

                            • ammin
                              Member
                              • Sep 2012
                              • 74

                              I really cant stop the topical antiandrogen - Hair loss has been taking an emotional and professional toll on me. Consequently, I am too scared to forsake the results I have observed from my current regimen, namely: Revivogen,Viviscal Laser Comb, 6 mg MSM, 1 gm Vit C, Nizoral, 1000 IU Vitamin D3 and B complex.

                              I dont want to lose any more hair or hair thickness. What do you reckon Gutted? Can I keep what I have on my current regimen. My MPB doesnt seem to be aggressive and my father is a NW 3.5-4 at 59.

                              Comment

                              • gutted
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 1397

                                Originally posted by ammin
                                I really cant stop the topical antiandrogen - Hair loss has been taking an emotional and professional toll on me. Consequently, I am too scared to forsake the results I have observed from my current regimen, namely: Revivogen,Viviscal Laser Comb, 6 mg MSM, 1 gm Vit C, Nizoral, 1000 IU Vitamin D3 and B complex.

                                I dont want to lose any more hair or hair thickness. What do you reckon Gutted? Can I keep what I have on my current regimen. My MPB doesnt seem to be aggressive and my father is a NW 3.5-4 at 59.

                                it is this reason why propecia continues to sell making its producers billions! the fear of losing something, that may not neccsarily be "susceptible" to loss.

                                to answer your question, if you can afford the regime your on, and its working for you then i guess it would be fine, but you should realise any "sheds" will be from androgen imbalances and not from the vitc/msm combo. The vitc/msm combo works to normalise these sheds rather than promote sheds.

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