Hidden Gem -> MSM/Vit C & TRX2 - a fin alternative?

[Cob984]

try the sp, its not scary, iv reintroduced it at one 125mg extract every other day,
the sides it gave me are slight libido issues, and bloating i.e. more fat than usual

i was on 250mg/day then, now lets see if this dose is more tolerable and even helpful

[MrBlonde]

Nearly 4 months in. Still shedding but from all over my head. In general my hair looks pretty good, my temples and top of my head seem better than they did 4 months ago, though crown looks around the same. I feel like this combo is helping, so I'm going to review again at 6months, then 9, then 12. I think I could benefit from a growth stimulant, I'm considering TRX2 but it seems expensive and very mixed results.
Would be good to get some response from gutted on this thread.

This is what I am experiencing too and I'm about 4 months in too. The crown is a little worse off than it was and the hair got thinner in general but I seem to be hanging on for now and hope to see regrowth over the next 6 months.

[gutted]

Hi guys, first and foremost happy new year to all!

i apologise for not coming back as often as i used to, to answer questions.

i no longer feel the need to come here as much as i used to. I WILL proide updates on my situation which i will do periodiocailly, (which is more wise than every day or week that some are doing!!, this wont help in any way but make you feel more depressed! it takes time, ALOT of time...)

I havent read everything since i left the thread but have had a quick read a couple of pages back.


i will try to come back and answer questions as often as i can this week so post them.


As for my situtation i am improving, but very very slowly like i say, time is very much essential to this regime! please do NOT underestimate it.
i would LOVE for my temples to fill in which is the only thing about my hair that slightley bothers me, but i know this wont happen with this regime, at best im confident i will maintain what i have (which IMO is a big achievement). Anyhow with a bit of styling it pretty much goes unoticeable to the average person.

Please read the following carefully.

There are obviously some here who arnet getting results and some who are. Ive outlined what can affect results primarily dht suppressors! if your using one either internally or topically i wouldnt bother with this regime.

If youve recently dropped these dht inhibiting substances you NEED to give it aprrox 3 months for everything to return to normal again, in this time frame you will THIN out/shed hairs like never before in your life (this varies between individuals), you WILL also expeience oily hair/itches, maybe even more hornier than usual.

THIS DOES NOT IN ANY WAY MEAN MSM/C IS NOT WORKING FOR YOU.

what you have to do is allow 3 months for everything to normalise and then start the 12/18 month plan (thats a total of 21 months) CONSISTENTLY, without the use of dht suppressors...going back and forth will f*** up you hair cycle clock. this is NOT the way this regime works if you do, do this, then you will have to start from scratch.


For those that are taking it without known dht suppressors, you need to make SURE you are not taking anything else that MAY affect hormone levels in any way, vitamins/other conpounds CAN and DO, do this.

Also daily medications for other diseases may affect your results too.

Shampoos may also affect your results i.e nizoral/dht suppressing shampoos etc

For those that are taking this faithfully without (RE)INTRODUCING anything to your regime and still not seeing the reduction in oil and itch - i can only say you may not be suffering from androgenetic alopecia but a differnt type of loss OR you have not given it enough time.

Anrogentic alopecia has symptoms such as excessively oily hair in addition to itches - if you have these symptoms you are most likley going to go bald if its not sorted out. Using this as an assessment rather than the norwood scale (which doesnt predict if you will bald but shows you once it occurs!) to predict if you will go bald is a VERY good way to determine if you will go bald in the future and try to treat it before it occurs. Non balders have extremeley dry hair.

if anyone has any questions please post them will try and get back to them.

Thanks

[gutted]

I'm referring to the combo, as stated - along with trx2. Sadly my centre parting is getting wider and my crown is opening up, it ain't filling in gutted

jc, are you back on the minox? any changes to the regime?

are the backs and sides still itching for you?

[gutted]

Well this thread has steered off-topic but I am wondering what happened to gutted? I have used this combo for 3 months but only take a few grams of each daily. To be honest the only things I noticed growing faster were my nails and the hair on my head. I didn't experience any regrowth as far as I can see. I have really noticed a difference in my joints which seems to have been the most beneficial aspect of this combo on my body.

I just recently cut my hair short about a 3/4" length and man my hair is in terrible shape. It doesn't help that I'm a diffuse thinner so I have lost density all over my head not just in the typical MPB areas. I know what I am currently taking (MSM, Vit. C, Saw Palmetto) is most likely not working, probably never was so I am SOL because I refuse to take Finasteride for my own reasons.

I have pretty much after alot of soul searching accepted my fate and since I already have a wife and kids it isn't so bad really. I feel bad for younger brahs who are just starting off because I know it can be devastating to their social/love lives. I'm probably just gonna continue taking 2g-3g each of this combo daily just for maintenance may drop the SP but will continue for the time being. Goodluck to all but I wouldn't be expecting much from this combo. Besides, the only one who claimed to see improvement was gutted and perhaps he is just lucky to respond positively to MSM but he refuses to post pictures so we only have his word to go on.

saw palmetto...trying to convince people that dht suppression has a negative effect on your hair is going to be like trying to convince athiests god exists without much evidence to back it up.

DHT suppression is much more detrimental than you or the average hair loss sufferer are aware...put it this way you would not be balding as severley as you are now had you not started saw palmetto/suppressed dht! Chances are you would of balded much slower leaving it untreated.

It takes a VERY VERY long time to recover from the effects of dht suppression, but it can be done with the right frame of mind....patience is all that is required.

[MrBlonde]

I posted some questions about your hair and some contradictions I thought surrounded your posts about twenty pages back but I don't hink you looked back far enough. Here it is

Originally Posted by gutted View Post
If you have diffuse hair loss throughout the scalp, im confident you will see a reversal. First changes are seen at the crown.

I am diffuse throughout the scalp Gutted and its worrying, I am 3 months in and getting thinner whilst on this regiem. I shed mainly at the hairline too.

I would like to get an idea of exactly how aggressive and advanced your MPB was and just to make sure it was MPB and not TE or something else you could have recovered from with help of this program.

Where you thinning all over the scalp before you addressed you MPB with this program? because you said this before

no when i started the combo, there was no signs of thinning. Its only when i started other supplements that caused the thinning. That has slowly reversed itself over the last few months.

What I'm getting at is how can you say this will reverse diffuse thinning when you say were not experiencing it before this program? It was only a supplemental reaction that caused it and was easily reversable.

Why did you start this if there was no thinning?

In this exchange you seem to contradict the above and say you were thinning before this treatment

Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
So you were not thinning before this treatment or you were? I cant remember.

yes i was thinning in a diffuse manner BECAUSE of mpb, most visible on the left side.

Originally Posted by MrBlonde View Post
Did you hair feel flat, limp or thin at all at any stage and would you say your hair is thick now? How was your crown looking?

yes it was flat, thin, and limp, because of the thinning that had occured because of mpb. Not AFTER i started this combo. I never witnessed this. My crown was not "bad" but i could tell i was starting to lose density in this region, but not noticeable to the naked eye.

Can you clarify please.

You also say your hair is shedding but at a normal level

yes i have a normal shedding pattern and this is all over, hairline included. Its normal to lose hairs.

No my hairline has stopped receeding, there has been no recession for over a year now. Im confident its staying put. I know on the right side i can see density improving, i also expect this to happen on the left although in a few months time.

So your hairline is not receeding and your not thinning but you may not have ever been or had a problem in this area, i'm not sure. If you were not thinning and are saying that it will work for those that are you are taking a big risk with other ppls hair.

We are talking about diffuse thinning and miniturization as the same thing here yes?

I am just trying to get some clarity on your level of MPB and was it really a problem as it is for the rest of us or were you at an early recoverable stageother and some key issues I meant to address before but never did. I am not saying you are lying to us. I know when you are replying to a lot of posts you may contradict yourself accidently.

[gutted]

I posted some questions about your hair and some contradictions I thought surrounded your posts about twenty pages back but I don't hink you looked back far enough. Here it is



I am diffuse throughout the scalp Gutted and its worrying, I am 3 months in and getting thinner whilst on this regiem. I shed mainly at the hairline too.

I would like to get an idea of exactly how aggressive and advanced your MPB was and just to make sure it was MPB and not TE or something else you could have recovered from with help of this program.

Where you thinning all over the scalp before you addressed you MPB with this program? because you said this before



What I'm getting at is how can you say this will reverse diffuse thinning when you say were not experiencing it before this program? It was only a supplemental reaction that caused it and was easily reversable.

Why did you start this if there was no thinning?

In this exchange you seem to contradict the above and say you were thinning before this treatment








Can you clarify please.

You also say your hair is shedding but at a normal level



So your hairline is not receeding and your not thinning but you may not have ever been or had a problem in this area, i'm not sure. If you were not thinning and are saying that it will work for those that are you are taking a big risk with other ppls hair.

We are talking about diffuse thinning and miniturization as the same thing here yes?

I am just trying to get some clarity on your level of MPB and was it really a problem as it is for the rest of us or were you at an early recoverable stageother and some key issues I meant to address before but never did. I am not saying you are lying to us. I know when you are replying to a lot of posts you may contradict yourself accidently.

hi, sorry will do now.

For me to answer this i will have to go back a few years when i first noticed hair loss and describe what has gone on since then.

I first noticed hair loss/minor reccession after getting out of surgery for an operation. There was no signs of diffuse thinning/just temporal recession which was in no way noticeable to anyone but me.

I tried to treat this very mild recession via the dht suppressing avenue to "prevent" future mpb as i was brainwashed into beliveing my fate is "genetically" sealed (i was naive and young back then too!).
This worked great and even regrew a bunch of hairs! Things changed pretty fast and i started to lose alot more than i would have done. Also the fact that i had side effects such as major weight gain, feeling like shit/sexual sides i decided to stop suppressing dht in the end.

Around the same time i quit i experienced further diffuse thinning in the typical mpb regions which at the time i put down to "genetic mpb progression"

Eventually i tried a bunch of treatments from inneove homme to tocotreniols. I cant say they did much if anything and i was left with a diffuse thinning look.

Around the same time i heard about msm, and how it can be used to grow hair quicker and thought what the hell i will take it "i may recover what i had lost". During that period of taking this i noticed aonther unusual effect on a sebacaeous cyst (about a pea size) that i had. It started to shrink! i decided to stick with it for this reason to see if it would shrink any further. From what i recollect, i still had this visible diffuse thinning in my hair.

A few months later trx2 popped up. I tried the individual ingredients (with some worsening of my hair loss with high doses of niacin!) and then jumped on actual trx2 (still taking the MSM) when released and eventually dropped the individual ingredients and stuck with trx2/msm consistently from then on

What i noticed was diffuseness started to slowly fill in, the crown was more fuller/denser and had more volume added to it. Things were really good as far as diffuseness goes! but at the time i craved for temple regrowth!

Anyway a few months (last year) back, like a fool, i decided to introduce saw palmetto to my regime again to see if i could achieve some temple growth using it...i was wrong, this increased oil/itches and caused me to thin noticeabley on the left side which is what im recovering from over the last few months.

So to answer your question, yes i suffer from androgentic alopecia/and did/do have diffuse thinning.


Yes i have a normal shedding pattern when sticking with msm/c/trx2, changing this by introducing certain stuff causes an increase in shed levels. You will usually shed throughout the scalp include the backs and sides.

No diffiuse thinning is NOT minutuarisation. Minutuarisaion involves hair diameter decresing, diffuse thinning involves more hairs leaving the scalp than usual, which is how MPB manifests in most people.

[Jcm800]

jc, are you back on the minox? any changes to the regime?

are the backs and sides still itching for you?

Hi gutted. Am tapering back onto minox gradually, too early to comment on that really.

No changes other than I'm taking the combo spaced out three times per day. Been on it around four months now, nothing positive to report, at least that I'm noticing, am still itchy, randomly all over really.

[gutted]

Hi gutted. Am tapering back onto minox gradually, too early to comment on that really.

No changes other than I'm taking the combo spaced out three times per day. Been on it around four months now, nothing positive to report, at least that I'm noticing, am still itchy, randomly all over really.

i really dont know what to say mate. Perhaps this is not for you. You may have some other scalp condition.

[Jcm800]

i really dont know what to say mate. Perhaps this is not for you. You may have some other scalp condition.

Dunno, i'm also getting those damn bumps again at the nape of my neck, the irritated kinda painful ones, that flare up now and then, perhaps i'm doomed then - i'll carry on with this - my only other option is Fin, can't bring myself to try it tho..

[gutted]

Dunno, i'm also getting those damn bumps again at the nape of my neck, the irritated kinda painful ones, that flare up now and then, perhaps i'm doomed then - i'll carry on with this - my only other option is Fin, can't bring myself to try it tho..

i think it may be wise for you to go see a doc. There are other types of loss other than mpb. I remember you stating you itch on the sides and backs which is pretty much nonexistant/unusual for MPB.
it may even be an adverse reaction to minox.

[Jcm800]

Hmm a doc might just rec getting of Fin?! Well, i had the itch when i was on Minox and off it, not sure it's down to that, in fact i never had the ageing/palpitations/bloated face others report on it, just shedded and didnt regrow when i tried it previously.

looks like mpb to me mate, temple recession, diffuse crown etc, what else could it be?! The odd thing tho is it doesnt run in my family, older bro has every hair on his head, dad wasnt bald etc - i'm the unlucky fkr it would seem.

[clandestine]

Jcm; It likely is mpb. And the doc will just script fin. These are likely the realities of your situation.

[Jcm800]

That's what I'm thinking clandestine. Have you bitten the bullet and tried fin yet out of interest?

Last time I spoke to my doc about fin, expressing my concerns about sides he shrugged them off and said every drug has sides, go for it. Great advice I'm sure. Two years later I still don't trust him lol.

[gutted]

Hmm a doc might just rec getting of Fin?! Well, i had the itch when i was on Minox and off it, not sure it's down to that, in fact i never had the ageing/palpitations/bloated face others report on it, just shedded and didnt regrow when i tried it previously.

looks like mpb to me mate, temple recession, diffuse crown etc, what else could it be?! The odd thing tho is it doesnt run in my family, older bro has every hair on his head, dad wasnt bald etc - i'm the unlucky fkr it would seem.

the itch all over the head is pretty unusual which makes me think its something else, but a diffuse crown is certainly an indication of mpb. It could be a scalp bacterial infection of some sort.

dont touch fin!!! you will regret it,but its a decesion only you can make.

good luck whatever you decide to do mate.