Aderans

[Boldy]

It should be a money issue man, I can not think of other reason. probably some company that had financial interest in selling snake oil, had bought them off... Dp culture is the cure, if you can do this process efficiently, than.....

Hey Boldy,

I just finished reading this journal you posted:


Hair follicle neogenesis induced by cultured human scalp dermal papilla cells

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9doxfq9hqny8olc/8%20hair%20folucle%20newogenesis%20induced%20by%20cultured%20human%20scalp%20dermal%20papilla%20cells.pdf

How the hell did Intercytex go bust! They managed to grow brand new follicles on HUMAN skin grafts!!!!! They did it! They really did it and they went under!!!

I really don't understand the pharmaceutical industry anymore!!!!!!

I mean look at these photos!!!!

[Boldy]

double post.

[Thinning87]

wow that is crazy I can't believe a company that close would have problems

[Desmond84]

It should be a money issue man, I can not think of other reason. probably some company that had financial interest in selling snake oil, had bought them off... Dp culture is the cure, if you can do this process efficiently, than.....

Well thank God, Aderans bought Intercytex.

I'm dying to read their Phase 2 trial results...there's so many questions:

- Did the hairs last for the last 5 years?

- Did patients remain above baseline for at least 24 months?

- Was any adverse events reported?

.....

[yeahyeahyeah]

Hey Boldy,

I just finished reading this journal you posted:


Hair follicle neogenesis induced by cultured human scalp dermal papilla cells

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9doxfq9hqny8olc/8%20hair%20folucle%20newogenesis%20induced%20by%20cultured%20human%20scalp%20dermal%20papilla%20cells.pdf

How the hell did Intercytex go bust! They managed to grow brand new follicles on HUMAN skin grafts!!!!! They did it! They really did it and they went under!!!

I really don't understand the pharmaceutical industry anymore!!!!!!

I mean look at these photos!!!!

I think its because they wern't consistent enough.

[neversaynever]

I think everyones getting carried away. Intercytex was bought by Aderans, but aderans are saying they are not creating new follicles. Improvements so far has been in turning vellus hairs into terminal and we wont know more until phase 3. They are still, in my opinion, the best prospect of the 'future treatments'.

Im sure aderans are working hard on this, to investigate.

Can DP cells form the actual DP structure in vitro? Perhaps inserting the actual structure into the scalp might be the answer. We know that a partial follicle containing a DP can regenerate into a new follicle.

[neversaynever]

Well thank God, Aderans bought Intercytex.

I'm dying to read their Phase 2 trial results...there's so many questions:

- Did the hairs last for the last 5 years?

- Did patients remain above baseline for at least 24 months?

- Was any adverse events reported?

.....

Are they planning to reveal their phase 2 results to the public? When?

[neversaynever]

What is exciting is that the results so far are from just one injection. Looking forward to any updates.

[Desmond84]

Very interesting theory from Roger_that @ hairsite. What are your opinions guys? It may very well be true!

Here's what Roger_that reckons:

"So far Aderans has disappointed big time. This process is taking a RIDICULOUS amount of time (over 10 years -- far longer than I expected) and now they keep lowering expectations. At first it was supposed to be "designer hair", now we're talking about bald spots being improved ever-so-slightly with a few extra hairs around the outer edges. Nothing that clearly takes a balding person and makes him look like he isn't balding. Which was exactly what they were shouting to high heaven about when they started. So it's really disappointing.

The one factor which might change this bad news, however is COMPOUNDABIILITY.

The reason for this is the following: Let's say a "bad" treatment is something that only gives 1/10 of the results you'd like.

Well, even a bad treatment can be repeated 10 times. If results are compoundable, then repeating that bad treatment 10 times might result in a "good treatment" with truly cosmetically useful results.

Remember, Aderans is NOT a drug. It's something completely different from Propecia or Rogaine. Drugs aren't really "compoundable" in the same sense. You start using them and either they work or they don't. If they work, you'll see a gradual improvement, and then you'll reach a plateau, where no further improvement is possible.

Of course, you MIGHT be able to improve the results of Propecia dramatically if you, say, took 20 pills a day. But then you'd also die. Or you could improve the results of Rogaine dramatically if you rubbed it into your scalp all day, every day. But again, if you did that, you'd die.

All drugs have a TOXICITY related to dosage. Their efficacy be compoundable in theory, but not in practice, because if you go beyond a certain point in dosing, you get extremely sick, or you die. Sure, you can go into "maintenance" mode and keep using the drug every day for the rest of your life. But that's not the same as increasing the daily dosage. If you increase the daily dosage beyond a certain point, it may actually be GREAT for your hair, but you will get very sick and you may die.

That's why nobody takes 20 Propecia tablets a day.

HT is definitely not compoundable except in the most limited sense. The doctors will tell you the more grafts you get, the more coverage you'll get, but very soon you'll hit a concrete wall. You run out of donor hair. And all the while they're doing irreparable damage to your scalp.

Aderans' treatment different in that there is no perceived toxicity to it, and there's no brick wall hit from depleting donor hair or savaging the scalp. They're injecting a culture of your own cells. So it is literally something you could have done safely, an unlimited number of times, depending of course on your funds.

I have my own theories about what contributes to Aderans' efficacy or lack thereof, in any given situation.

Injecting cells into the scalp is like a crap shoot. Unlike in the embryo where proto-follicles are held together by naturally occurring embryonic chemicals and growth factors (which are very specific to the embryo and fetus and no longer exist in the adult), the cells injected by companies like Aderans and Replicel, once they get into your scalp, are NOT naturally held together in a ball to form a proto-follicle. So as soon as they're injected, they tend to want to flow apart. Some of them may be absorbed by nearby hair follicles, which incorporate them into their structures and in this way become larger. But I believe this is rare. That's why I say it's like a crap shoot. Most of the cells injected float away and are wasted. Maybe 90% of the cells are wasted. They never contribute to any new hair growth at all. Maybe 10% are lucky enough to get incorporated into existing follicles, which might enlarge vellus follicles and in some cases turn them into terminal follicles. That is what probably accounts for the slight "new" hair growth seen in the Aderans patients. The remainder of the injected cells simply drift apart, never to be heard from again. They may be taken up by the bloodstream, eaten by macrophages, or just float away and die.

There is almost no way to address "crap shoot" problem in a single application. Aderans has tried using various tiny matrixes (matrices) or biodegradable scaffolds to hold the injected cells together long enough to form a follicle. I don't know what the specific results of that idea are, because to my knowledge they haven't been reported anywhere. The fact that such results haven't been reported, even just in passing, to me is not promising. Maybe these scaffolds aren't working nearly as well as they had conceived. This scaffold/matrix idea might be great in theory, but maybe it's too complicated and fraught with problems to work in practice. That might be why we're not hearing much about it. Sure there are various patents for it, but has the idea actually panned out?

However, forgetting about the scaffold idea, even a really disappointing treatment in which 10% of the injected cells cause some improvement, and 90% of the injected cells are wasted, should be, by its very nature, compoundable. If 10% of the injected cells are lucky enough to get incorporated into nearby follicles in each injection, causing those follicles to grow and become cosmetically visible, then of course that is a very low yield. But repeating that poor-yield procedure 10 times, would perhaps give you an impressive end result.

Unlike with drugs or HT, where you increase risk the "more" of the procedure you use, with Aderans procedure you do not increase risk on successive treatments. And each time, you have the same odds of growing hair. With the same odds each time and zero increased risk, results should be compoundable.

I'm not sure about this theory... Only time will tell. But that's what I'm relying on now for Aderans. I think I'm right on this. But if this theory doesn't pan out, Aderans may become yet another colossal failure"

[pocketmerlin]

I know dude 2013 is the year we find out if there's a light at the end of this dark tunnel!

There are so many companies releasing major updates. We're talking:

- Histogen (Feb update re: final 12 month results)

- Aderans (April update re: Final Phase 2 results and Initiation of Phase 3)

- Replicel (November update re: Final 24 month results on Phase 1/2)

- Bimatoprost (Might be launched end of this year!)

- OC (June-July: Phase 2 trials start for baldness)

It's gonna be an epic year! I think the cutting edge section of BTT is gonna be going nuts

Hey, I'm new here.

I was looking around the web for news about an update from Aderans and came across this thread.

I couldn't figure it out looking through the posts...on what basis is it believed that Aderans will release their Phase 2 results in April?

[534623]

Hey, I'm new here.

I was looking around the web for news about an update from Aderans and came across this thread.

I couldn't figure it out looking through the posts...

After around 900 replies in this thread?

That's because lots of guys on meds on such forums rather prefer to talk about things like a "massive twat" and/or a "massive bell end" - or whether or not "is it okay to masterbate 6 times a day". But these are just a few reasons why you couldn't figure out the answer you are looking for.

Anyway - here is what you're looking for ...

Dr. Ken Washenik’s recent presentation at the Stem Cells Meeting on the Mesa in California (October 29-31, 2012):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_JHbtXJ0a8

And here is a brief summary of his presentation:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/nov/03/making-case-for-stem-cell-treatment/

[Desmond84]

Hey, I'm new here.

I was looking around the web for news about an update from Aderans and came across this thread.

I couldn't figure it out looking through the posts...on what basis is it believed that Aderans will release their Phase 2 results in April?

Hey Merlin

Aderans has performed 11 Phase 2 trials. 9 of these have completed. 1 will finish in Feb 2013 and the last one will conclude in April 2013.

Here's the link to the last study:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01669746?term=ji+gami&rank=2

Estimated Enrollment: 40
Study Start Date: June 2012
Estimated Primary Completion Date: April 2013 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

They will be presenting their final Phase 2 results at an investor's conference sometimes then. (Just like their 2010 presentation)

[neversaynever]

So rogers theory is that injected cells are not grouping together, most of them are going to waste, it can work if its compoundable.

I wouldnt call that rogers theory, people have been saying that kinda stuff for a while now.

[534623]

Here's the link to the last study:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...ji+gami&rank=2

According to this (Ji Gami CN trail) ...

... commercialization start would be anywhere in June-December 2015.

oh, and they WILL start to commercialize Gi Gami CN anywhere in 2015/2016.
To get FDA approval for GI Gami, THIS is definitely not the problem ...

[yeahyeahyeah]

According to this (Ji Gami CN trail) ...

... commercialization start would be anywhere in June-December 2015.

oh, and they WILL start to commercialize Gi Gami CN anywhere in 2015/2016.
To get FDA approval for GI Gami, THIS is defenitely not the problem ...

Where did you get the source for this?