Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[UK_]

[QUOTE=mlao;24865]

That is rubbish, you would never jump to such a fuss if I used the term 'stupid' or 'dumb' what on earth is the difference, I know the PC police are on high alert these days but this is just ridiculous.[/QUOTE

I guess you have never seen a mentally challenged person cry when someone uses that term. Stupid or dumb does not imply a condition.

How do you square your comment with the existence of speechless humans on planet earth?

You are from planet earth right?

[gmonasco]

How do you square your comment with the existence of speechless humans on planet earth?

Such people are known as "mute."

Now please take the childish squabbling somewhere off this forum.

[CAlex]

I think another BIG question about the histogen phase 2 trials is...

A) will patients from the phase 1 trials be included?
this would help greatly in determining if the effects of hsc are compoundable(more treatments more hairs/cm2)

patients in phase 1 went from 179 to 263 (1.47 cm2 area) hairs at the end of the study. An increase of roughly 46 %

If histogen is able to increase those same subjects now 263 density by 22% that would bring them to natural density

320 hairs over a 1.47 cm2 area would be 183 hairs per cm/2

B) the study should focus on a larger area. It would be wise to learn if the body can only be coaxed into producing new hairs over a small area at any one time. Plus we would see if hsc can reproduce consistent results over a large area

[gmonasco]

will patients from the phase 1 trials be included? this would help greatly in determining if the effects of hsc are compoundable(more treatments more hairs/cm2)

That was a pilot clinical trial, not a Phase I trial. And since each subject received only a single injection, I don't think further testing on them would demonstrate much of anything about the compoundability of HSC's effects.

[CAlex]

I respectively disagree gmonasco.

If the original patients from the earlier trial are added and gain no benefit from phase 2 we could learn that maybe the hsc treatment is a one time results deal. Better to find out now and begin working on a way around it then waiting until later IMO

I think the cost vs beneficial information "we" might learn is definitely worth it.

[gmonasco]

If the original patients from the earlier trial are added and gain no benefit from phase 2 we could learn that maybe the hsc treatment is a one time results deal.

a) Again, they weren't phase 1 subjects; they were pilot clinical trial subjects. There's a very big difference between the two.

b) They each only received a single injection. Even if a second injection produced more hair in some of those subjects, that wouldn't really be enough to demonstrate that the effects were compoundable (rather than that, say, the first injections didn't fully "take").

You'd have to wait until the true phase 1 testing was complete, then use some of those subjects in subsequent testing to determine if the results were compoundable.

[CAlex]

So I guess if histogen still needs to do Phase 1 2 AND 3 the release date of 2013 in Asia is way off.

[MMJ]

First of all I will say that I have high hopes for HSC and believe it is an exciting product. But I believe people may be overly enthusiastic at the moment without looking at all the facts given by Histogen. This could leave to dissapointment in the end for many people and tend to give a non objective discussion.
People throw around some incredible numbers and I know some of them come from Ziering himself, but these numbers are probably the best responders. Not an average. And moste people will not have that kind of result. About 15 percent wont respond at all after 3 months according to a graph on histogen.com (http://histogen.com/images/terminal_...sity_graph.gif).
If we look at the 1-year data (http://histogen.com/images/hsc_graph.jpg) we can see that the average increase after 3 months are about ten hairs (from 230 to 240 hair, 5 &#37 and at 12 months the increase is 30 hairs (230 to 260 hair, 13 percent).
These numbers are not at all impressive and probably not even visible improvements. Why do people avoid discussing these official numbers? I sure hope phase 2 will produce much better results than this. I would like to see numerous injections during a 4 week period, maybe once a week, and see what that does. I dont understand why phase 2 only will include only one follow up injection.
Anyway, fingers crossed that the case study photos are available soon, that will be exciting to see.

[KeepHoping]

I find it so irritating that patients can't sign a waiver prior to the FDA approval to get treatment for something. 2014 is such a long way off.

[RichardDawkins]

MMJ : Good point but on a larger scale this effect would be very dramatic and cosmetically significant.

The most important thing is that those hairs can stay and that they dont succumb to dht right after the injection.

Also those are pre clinical or in our terms "useless" trials. But even they showed hair regrow with a permanent touch which is very impressive. Right now Histogen could put their stuff on the market and it would drastically benefit people here.

Maybe they should, you forget to mention that your native hair also gets stronger after the injection. There was this one Histogen picture around where you could see one really blan guy with four areas treated and in the HSC treated area there was significant grow, even from a far away bird view this was seeable.

I believe that results are stackable, it would just represent the idea behind this. Because hairloss is not a direct thing, its slowly taking its toll and so will HSC regain those hairs step by step.

Am i optimistic about HSC? No more realistic, it wont help with extensive scartissue or areas where no follicles are alive.

An i blieve that a NW7 guy has to get more then one injection runs here

[Jcm800]

Hang on a minute, who did I call a retard? I stated there is always a demand for products that do not have substantiated scientific evidence for their efficacy because of 'retarded consumers'. It is no different to stating there is always a demand for psuedo-scientific gurus and their life-long learning schemes because of the same retards that bite the hook. I am sorry you found my statement rather offensive, but nobody is perfect.

Define retard: "relatively slow in mental or emotional or physical development and reasoning".

You have to be pretty slow to believe a vitamin pill will cure yourself and humanity of hair loss. You have to be even slower to buy a 3 month supply for circa £90 on the basis of zero scientific evidence, just a study done by a PhD student does not suffice (i.e. where were the comparisons? How does it fair against propecia? Minoxidil?) But lets not go into the efficacy of TRX2, I am still waiting on peoples 3 month follow-up, and in all honesty I haven't seen anything convincing, and shall not assume that I ever will. I am here to discuss HSC and HSC only.

So you called us Retards & Goons for trying TRX2 out? Sure it was offensive, but, you did have some fair points, just the way you go about putting them across could do with toning down

Anyone who cares to follow this link can read your polite introduction to the thread

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3759&page=95

[KeepHoping]

Yeah, and if they could, they should put it out on the market and help millions of people if the next trails run smoothly. It's a medicine that works with follicles that are present in the scalp so by prolonging its release it just hurts the balding community.

[RichardDawkins]

Jcm please stay away with UK from Acell related thread .-) This guy is like the infectious form of hairloss, where he goes crap happens or as h likes to say "utterly bullcrap"

I do belive that behind the Acc UK_ are multiple people, because he switches his writing style so often :-)

anyway i am still exited about the hopefully soon upcoming news here

[Jcm800]

Jcm please stay away with UK from Acell related thread .-) This guy is like the infectious form of hairloss, where he goes crap happens or as h likes to say "utterly bullcrap"

I do belive that behind the Acc UK_ are multiple people, because he switches his writing style so often :-)

anyway i am still exited about the hopefully soon upcoming news here

Hey - it's fine, i wont outstay my welcome, just felt compelled to chime in and let it be known that UK_ has been a pain in the ass elsewhere - but all the same, no bad feeling's from me, he's frustrated like most of us.

[RichardDawkins]

Well yes but there is a difference between frustrated and just being a troll.

I saw repair patients here who had all the rights in the world to be frustrated but they are not ;-)