Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[Nilli57211]

For what it's worth, Replicel just released positive news. Apparently their results are better than they originally thought.

http://www.replicel.com/further-analysis-reveals-double-digit-hair-growth-in-replicels-first-in-man-clinical-trial/

I'll be honest, it seems a little fishy to me. I don't know if this is for real, or if they just skewed some data to ameliorate the public's opinion of them, but it could be legit. It's great news if it is.

Also, wanted to point out one thing. The photos of the woman on the Histogen poster that everyone has been talking about - she really appears to have MPB. It's less common, but it happens - women can have male pattern baldness (receding hairline and bald areas), while men can lose hair in the female pattern (overall thinning). This woman has a receding hairline, and the product still worked very well in the temple area. This should be a promising sign to all, I think.

[2020]

4. No. Transplanted hair was an exclusion criterion for the trial so anybody who had a transplant couldn't be in the trial.

probably because it does permanent damage. Even Replicel mentions this:

In addition, hair transplantation surgery inflicts considerable scalp tissue damage, while our procedure generates virtually no tissue damage.

The worst possible thing you can do right now, is get a hair transplant...

[Losing_It]

So much speculation on this thread now. It is exciting that they are making strides. At least we can look forward to perhaps a 6 month update and after that the 1 year update. It is unfair to compare HSC to Minox because you lose all the hair that you gained after you stop using it. Also, you need to apply it twice a day for the rest of your life.

We also need to remember that this was only a poster presentation. I see people on other forums are complaining about the pictures of the women and the men only had macros. I am not certain what people expect, these photos are from a clinical trial and need to show accurate haircount. Showing us a picture of a man growing hair won't do any good because I don't think that is what the regulators want.

[Sogeking]

@TracyC
You took one of my sentences out of context and indirectly portrayed me as a negative nancy.
What I said was that Replicel was a failure from a viewpoint of an end user trying to grow visibly and cosmetically sufficent amount of hair. Which is the only one that matters. I believe dr. Cole said it as it is in the interview thread with David Hall about the trial results. Basically they haven't provided any pictures about any form of cosmetical improvement concerning their treatment.

Replicel wasn't a failure from a viewpoint of growing new hair with DSC cells. They actually succeded. However that doesn't mean much to balding man and women out there.
But hey if you wanna' believe 'em you do that.

[tizzle]

I hope Histogen can regrow hair on my temples, as of now I would need a lot of grafts to fix my hairline. So depressed right now.

I feel you man, my mpb started 1.5 years ago when i was 23 and its pretty agressive. Im thinning from hair line to the crown at the same fast rate, hair line is receeding simultaniously

I dont think i will last till hsc hits the market (i hope Fin does its job, cant tell yet), but i would rather safe the HT money for when it does

Edit: But i have to say that Histogens results improved my MPB depression massively. Now we know they are on the right track to cure this shitty "disease"

[tizzle]

But an increase from 20 to 60% of original hair would be a 200% increase in hair count. We haven't seen anything that high yet, but it could happen.

You are absolutely right. But what i wanted to point out is that many people are concerned, that the trial was done on men with thinning hair and not on bald guys. And that is has no effect on bald guys because of the results being compared to baseline in %.

Say the thinning guys in the trial have 100 follicles in the target area and 50 are sleeping, hsc can only wake up the 50 sleeping follicles because the others are allready growing hair.

With a bald guy you have 100 of 100 sleeping so HSC has more to work with. And since no bald guys were in the trial we cant tell if the 200% increase you mentioned wouldnt have happened.

It could, we simply dont know until they test in on a bald guy

[BoSox]

I hope Histogen can regrow hair on my temples, as of now I would need a lot of grafts to fix my hairline. So depressed right now.

[Kiwi]

if only time can tell, why do you tell so much crap now?

Shut up douche bag.

LOVE YOUR WORK TRACY

[Pate]

--> of the 80% inactive, HSC will "wake up" half of them (Ergo 40%) so in the end you will jump from 20% to 60% of your original state before MBP (in comparison to example 1 where you only jump from 50% to 75%.

But an increase from 20 to 60% of original hair would be a 200% increase in hair count. We haven't seen anything that high yet, but it could happen.

jgold is right. A 50% increase in terminal hair if you only have 10% original terminal remaining is only 15% of original terminal hair. You would need a 400% increase to get back to 50% original terminal hair.

Given that we've seen these results from just two sets of injections, who knows what three or four, or more, sets might do?

[Pate]

So when will this be available in Asia? It would help with the funding for next phase trials.
We need another interview Spencer...

Questions

Did HST work to some degree on all patients?
What were the norward scales of the male patients being treated and was it tested in slick bald areas?
How are the 24 patients from the pilot study, is there hair continuing to grow and is DHT having any effect on the hair they have grown and there existing hair?
Has it been tested in areas of transplanted hair?
Release in Asia 2013

Love your work Spencer

We don't need an interview for those questions, we can answer them already.

1. No, it didn't. A few had no significant results, most had somewhere around the average, and a few had excellent results significantly better than average.

2. NW4-6, not tested in slick bald areas.

3. The pilot study did not evaluate hair growth at 24 months (only safety) but said "new hair appeared to persist." No evidence on how long HSC lasts before DHT reasserts itself.

4. No. Transplanted hair was an exclusion criterion for the trial so anybody who had a transplant couldn't be in the trial.

5. Seriously doubt it.

[jgold]

percentages their using are based on the amount of hair that they did have, not the amount of hair that they do not have

[jgold]

excuse me 35%

[jgold]

your wrong because if hsc made 80% of the 20% of the hair you had in an area wake up, then only 30% total would be awake not the higher number that you suggested.

[tizzle]

I hope that everyone is clear on the fact that when they state that there was a 50% or whatever it was increase from the baseline count at 3 months, that they don't mean a 50% increase of what a full head of hair is, they mean a 50% increase in the hair that was presently there.

Thus, if one if these pictures from Histogen says it had a 60% increase in an area where there was only 20% of their original hair, that really the hsc only made them have an increase of around 10% from what their full head of hair would be. anyone following me here??? maybe im stupid and you all already know this....

I dont think thats exactly true. Im not 100% sure but the comparison between baseline and haircount after the treatment only puts the numbers into a relation between each other.

lets assume HSC revitalizes shrunken hair follicles :

1. Early stage of MPB where 50% of the follicles are out of business (Shrunk) and 50% are perfectly active
-->50% increase from baseline means you end up with 75% hair (of your original state before MPB) and therefore lets say HSC will have a succes rate of 50% on shrunken follicles (The other 50% lets say are gone period)

2. Progressed stage of MBP where only 20% of the follicles are still perfectly active
--> of the 80% inactive, HSC will "wake up" half of them (Ergo 40%) so in the end you will jump from 20% to 60% of your original state before MBP (in comparison to example 1 where you only jump from 50% to 75%.


This is all hypothetical. I just wanted to show that only because you compare trial results to haircount from baseline does not mean that if you are completely bald, that you will not get back some hair from HSC

It all depends on how HSC works exactly (We dont know), how it will effect shrunken follicles (We dont know) and if it does anything to follicles that so many here call "dead" (we dont know)

But i cant wait for further resuults. Histogen has done so extremely well, im sure they will even make HSC more effective than it is now in the next stages of the trials

[Nilli57211]

let's be a realistic here. this result was for women who have low DHT, mild and recent hair loss.

won't grow hair in bald scalps that have been bald for years.

By the time this comes out we will be a nw7. You need to maintain to get some results that may not even happen because we don't know the results on MAN.

I achieved this same result but had to drop minox because of sides.

In resume all this is: a minoxidil on steroids.

Still helpful and you don't have to apply daily.

First of all, how do you know the woman's hair loss was recent? Her hair could have miniaturized a decade ago and just stayed miniaturized. It happens a lot in women - they get stressed out and a bunch of hair falls out at 18 or so, but minoxidil still works on them at 30 because the follicles are still there. Don't know if it's the same in men, but it's the case in a lot of women - their thinning happens all at once and just stays as is, not getting any worse.

And there have been results in men, even more so in phase I/II than in the pilot study. Who knows, if Replicel can improve their results, maybe a combination of Histogen and Replicel can regrow hair in a bald scalp.

And this is much more than "minoxidil on steroids." Histogen and Minoxidil shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. Histogen actually turns miniaturized follicles back to terminal - minoxidil does no such thing. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that minoxidil doesn't actually do shit for your follicles - the only reason it makes your hair appear thicker is that it gets all the follicles on the same "schedule" so that they're all breaking the scalp surface at the same time, creating the appearance of more hair. And it may possibly lengthen the anagen phase. But i don't think it actually helps the follicles at all.