Where are the phase IIb results for Bimatoprost?

[champpy]

I wish they would have actually done a hair count difference, to see if any new hair actually grew. For all we know it might have just strenghtened his existing hair and not grown anything new

[rdawg]

Only thing I'm confused on is this whole Subject self assesment vs. panel review vs. investigator global assesment.

what does that all mean exactly and how are they so different in their findings, as the latter two showed a 10-15% improvement over minox 5%

[rdawg]

I too would give it a try, even if the effects were no better than minox.

I do think their "enhanced" version of Bim will included Setipiprant. Bad thing about that is it will be a loooong time before that is ready, and its not even proven that Set will be of benefit. So for all we know, after the next Phase 2 we will still be in the same position as we are today, with mediocre results and them back to the drawing board.

Its a damn shame though that this wont be produced because it would sell as an alternative to Minox. My guess is that right now its just to costly to produce on a large scale basis.

As for sides, could the sides be any worse than what we get from Minox, fin or dut? I find it hard to believe that they would be.

Since we now see that 1% bim does work to some degree, is it possible that we could get this from another supplier eventually or from the black market. We ha vethe concentration, I think we just need a good vehicle now so that we know it actually penetrates the scalp

I would think that would be extremely expensive, I recall people saying 0.1% was very costly, you'd have to be rich to afford 3%.(similar problem with CB being tested at a high dose but would be more than a HT to test on the grey market).

in regard to your first point, it seems clear they know the dose they need to aim for now and just need to perfect it(although it's annoying that this cant be tested out in a phase III, just adds an extra year) so there's nothing negative to be taken from here. Seti is promising as it's already been tested in a Phase I by over 1000 respondents, and can likely be fast tracked within 3-4 years.

I think the key to take from this is, BIM is coming out(and likely SETI as well), it's just finding the perfect dose. We're not in a 5 year range here anymore, more of a 2-3 year timeframe until we get at the very least an alternative to minox(and for many, this may work for people where minox didnt!).

[rdawg]

This is an interesting one, seems clearly equal to Minox at lower dosage and about 10-20% better at higher dosage.

If they can improve the delivery like they are saying they may be on to something.

you guys can scoff and cry saying this isn't good enough, but this clearly shows positive efficacy, could last longer than Minox and already improves over minox at a higher percentage.

At the very least this looks like a viable treatment in 2-3 years at most, remember they are going straight to 2B with a higher dose/different delivery, once they find the perfect delivery, as they have already proven efficacy, they can push it forward straight into phase III.

there's nothing here that says failure, just have to wait a slightly longer amount of time(2-3 years instead of 1 year going straight to Phase III).

Add on top of this we will be getting a Propecia/DUT replacement soon as well in SETI as they seem to be onto something there and that goes straight to phase II.

[unbalding]

Is that pdf the only information they gave? There isn't in enough information there to make a definitive judgement. All we can tell is that the percentage of test subjects with a response of greater than 1 on their 3 point scale was about the same as minoxidil. How many in each group had a response of 2 or even 3? If that picture was the top responder then this is pretty much useless considering how long it will be before it gets to market. By that time we will hopefully have SM and Replicel which are both more promising than bim.

[Occulus]

I too would give it a try, even if the effects were no better than minox.

They won't release a bim-based product unless it is significantly better than minoxodil. Something that is only 10% better isn't going to cut it for financial reasons. Rogaine is pretty cheap now (it was initially $60 for three cans, now it can be found for half that price), as it's been on the market for so long. As a new product, bimotoprost won't be cheap for years, and will have to be priced at a premium to Rogaine. In order to justify the premium and outcompete Rogaine, it will have to be demonstrably better than Rogaine.

I hope some people start experimenting with a 1% or even 3% solution, as that's about the only way we'll know for at least a couple years.

[champpy]

I too would give it a try, even if the effects were no better than minox.

I do think their "enhanced" version of Bim will included Setipiprant. Bad thing about that is it will be a loooong time before that is ready, and its not even proven that Set will be of benefit. So for all we know, after the next Phase 2 we will still be in the same position as we are today, with mediocre results and them back to the drawing board.

Its a damn shame though that this wont be produced because it would sell as an alternative to Minox. My guess is that right now its just to costly to produce on a large scale basis.

As for sides, could the sides be any worse than what we get from Minox, fin or dut? I find it hard to believe that they would be.

Since we now see that 1% bim does work to some degree, is it possible that we could get this from another supplier eventually or from the black market. We have the concentration, I think we just need a good vehicle now so that we know it actually penetrates the scalp

2015 has been a bust. Im going to start a new thread here soon, but I keep thinking that 2017 is going to be the year we finally get a new product as 2016 will still be all about testing these new products out

[cocacola]

Also would be great to have minutes of that r&d presentation as it doesnt tell the whole story.

[cocacola]

As an ex-minox 5% user, i would say this is fking great and im pissed they wont release it anytime soon. I had to stop minox cuz of annoying sides and its unconvenient (2x a day oily shit). Personally i had strong result on minox which started to lose effectiveness after a year and a half, but if the panel experts conclude that the 3% is similar to minox 5% i would be the first in line to try it.

The key questions are:

1) does it last?
2) how often you have to apply
3) price
4) sides
5) when??

Also seems as they did test 3% but didn't show results from 3% only from 1%. Wish we knew more, but this also makes me believe they could go forward with it. They present this segment as a growth one with a 33% CAGR through the next 5 years, so obviously they want to tap into it.

First time since a while i am actually happy about a development in anti balding treatments. We def need more info on this study and i would try to reach to IR soon, cuz this is not enough and given the relative size of their pipeline i think they underestimate how many people would want to buy this if it has no sides and actually works in line or better than 5% minox.

[Keeper]

Maybe also the effect is not decreasing like with minox!

So it can have a value, if it works like discribed and its effect is not decreasing by time

[doinmyheadin]

Well, it works better than minox, but it appears to have hit some snags.

info on page 16 of the PDF

http://ir.allergan.com/phoenix.zhtml...ventID=5206702

To say im dissapointed is an understatement. As Swoops said its barely equal to Minox which we all know Minox is a joke. It needs to be at 2 to 3 times better to actually be slightly effective IMO.

[dus]

Well this sucks, only Sm04554 needs to fail now or under deliver to have no hope for another 3 some years.

[Tenma]

i wasnt expecting much from bimatoprost

im a bit surprised they will insist again with this "enhaced delivery" stuff though

[HelloVera]

'KYTH-105 for hair growth IND filed with FDA earlier this year; Allergan planning Phase 2 proof of concept study' ...Whats this? tried looking for BIM but no details. Don't help the pc crashing on links

[barfacan]

Phase 2 lasted a year.

Garbage. They still can't figure it out it seems.