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Originally posted by SwoopingV2
Ok but if it doesn't work and they don't make any attempt to pretend that it did work then it's not a scam. A scam is only if they intentionally try to trick people. I do not believe they have any intention of trying to trick people.Comment
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Some of you guys are so silly. FDA regulation has nothing to do with efficacy or legitimacy. The FDA has a mandate to make sure that consumers are safe. This is why they require extensive trials for new, experimental drugs and why it takes 10-20 years to get to market with them. This is also why they don't regulate simple herbal remedies, homeopathic treatments, and the like. There are a million snake oil treatments out there, as you point out, and they can keep on selling to their heart's content. It's safe, it just doesn't work. So the FDA doesn't care. Given our ingredients and levels, we should fall in the same boat.
Now scamming is a different issue. That's the FTC- Federal Trade Commission. They are responsible for punishing scammers, cracking down on false advertising, etc. if consumers are "harmed" (not in the medical sense, but scammed sense). They actually have more legal authority than the FDA. The FDA must get the Department of Justice to intervene from a legal standpoint if and when required.
Back to scientific integrity. Again, we are convinced of safety given published studies (our ingredients are FDA approved for other indications and/or used in cosmetics many of you use every single day) and concentrations. We have a theory on efficacy, that's what we really have to show here.
In pursuit of that, we will be doing a convenience sample asap on a handful of people, not much different than a backwoods experiment- "Hey Jimbo, 'mere. Try this crap out! I done made a concoction". We will show you those results as a courtesy. Those results will be as rigorously and consistently reported as they can be, but understand skepticism still at that point.
The results of that less rigorous (only because they are not randomized, blinded, or placebo controlled), convenience sample will tell us if it seems to be working or not, in very generous terms, and if it's worth spending a ton of time and effort and money to go forward with a larger trial.
This larger trial will be randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled, IRB approved, and statistically significant, and will yield data that we can publish in peer-reviewed journals. In other words, good science. We may or may not launch Indiegogo before or during this trial, just depending on what we are seeing. If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times: scientific integrity is paramount, and we will not take your money until convinced it will be effects. Trust me, our standard of evidence is higher than yours.
Here, someone start a Google doc. Anyone who thinks this is a snake oil or scam, put your name and address down. We will black list you to remove any risk of you ever getting this product so you never get burned. If we turn out to be a scam, we'll send you a hand-signed post card from our CEO so you can hang it on your wall of righteousness forever. I almost said if it turns out not to work, but I have acknowledged many times that that is possible, and if it doesn't, we won't have money for postage since we won't have taken any money, like I just repeated again.
Any questions?Comment
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swooping does your microscopic brain not understand the concept that follicept is novel in that it is using a proprietary delivery technology.
that being said, it is very questionable that Follicept would provide links and associate themselves with a doctor that has been discredited. very disappointed about thatComment
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LMAO. Chill. I have seen this research study way before. Good for you for posting it here, Columbus.Originally posted by SwoopingV2
I would rather wait for Follicept where I can get effective amounts of IGF-1 straight to the DP without poking holes all over my scalp. Again, this is like a more frequent PRP with just IGF-1 and a delivery system that does not require needles. So far, it seems to have potential and the science makes sense. None of us know how the results will be. Let's just wait and SEE how the trials do, before jumping to conclusions and thowing hissy fits.Comment
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You asshats are acting like Devon is already selling Follicept but unwilling to provide results. True, it could be a scam (though I don't think it is), but how many people from other companies have participated in this forum and been so transparent about the development of their product?
The odds are definitely stacked against them, but it's inevitable that SOMETHING new works at some point, and while my expectations aren't high, this is realistically the only new treatment that could be available this year. I understand that most of the posters here are more intelligent and have better credentials than the researchers involved with this project, but why not wait and see what happens? If Devon claims success and you still don't believe him (you know, since he "chose" not to enlist the FDA, and other unregulated products have falsified results), then don't buy it, and let others post their success/failure. This isn't like the WanBinCell solution where Follicept is already trying to sell a product with essentially no results to show. They've made it pretty clear that results will be made public before moving forward.Comment
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Arashi and swooping do you guys not understand English or have reading problems? How many times does Devon have to say that 'we will not sell anything unless we have rigorous evidence of efficacy'.
just repeat that to yourselves, and then ask yourself if it makes sense to write negative post after negative post of speculation
just sit back and wait until next week until Devon is nice enough to share with us his personal results. Nothing more to it than that. no really. nothing more to it than that. so I think I speak for most forum members when i say shutttt the FFFFF upComment
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How soon can we expect results? Not sure I can stand reading some of these comments in this thread much longer.Comment
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i'm dissapointed that arashi jumps so fast to the scam theory this time.
even if it turns out that IGF1 doesn't have that strong positive effect as in mice, their vehicle technology (if it works as claimed) is a great thing which could open the door for many applications. also, their insulin patch is fantastic. can you imagine yourself injecting insulin everyday, and always be totally dependent on such injections? the whole life? that's fu**ing crazy.
so, in any case, those guys have developed some great stuff, which will have a worldwide impact and improve the life of millions of people.
saying Devon and his team are scammers is just disrespectful and totally wrong in this case. this time we're not talking about con artists like dr. nigam, yoram, or this asian guy liu which just started his chlorine dioxine indiegogo.
give it please some time before you judge. yes, follicept might fail with the IGF theory, but it's nothing wrong with their approach of having an open and transparent discussion with us.
swooping's and some others behaviour in this forum is just unprofessional.Comment
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Swoopings undergrad and graduate degree
Swooping-since you are so brilliant please post evidence of your scientific degrees, because you're probably some plebeian who just reads articles and makes plebeian hypotheses about them. Otherwise, take a step back and let them run their trials buddy.Comment
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People here tend to argue a lot. Just let them run their tests, ask questions if you have any, and quit flooding this thread with useless bickering. It's getting old having to look through a lot of useless pages of petty arguments when all I want is updates or answers to questions. Keep this stuff civil and be mature.Comment
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Oh I can recall quite a few and they ALL turned out to be scammers, without any exceptions. Like Dr Nigam, Dr Gho, Yoram etc.
If a product really works, then why the hell go onto a hairloss forum ? If you really have a cure for hairloss, the whole world will know !
It's always the same with scammers: they have found the magical cure the whole world has been waiting for, yet they prefer to stay under the radar and just do some free advertising of their products (creating a hype) on some hairloss forums. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Oh and yeah, they never want to do FDA controlled trials, yet they ALWAYS promise scientific papers in scientific magazines (and some even succeed at having their nonsense published, like Dr Gho in some "peer reviewed scientific magazine". Yet that magazine admitted they NEVER verified the results (they just checked to see if the methodology made sense) and after all those years no one could re-create what Dr Gho described in that nonsense paper of his, I wrote about it here on my website: http://www.hasci-exposed.com/HSTMagic8.html. In other words, having something publicized doesnt really mean much these days, dr Gho has proven that quite well)Comment
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Gerhard, keep in mind that we are talking about a bunch of guys who are disfigured. We're balding guys. Whenever a treatment possibility comes up we are going to discuss it. Also, keep in mind that there have been many many scam treatments, and many treatments that have failed efficacy, and many treatments that have failed safety.
1. Of course some of us are going to try to deduce whether or not a potential treatment is a scam or not based on whatever evidence we can get.
2. And of course some of us are going to try to figure out if the treatment could be efficacious or not based on whatever evidence we can get.
3. And of course some of us are going to try to figure out if there is a potential safety risk based on whatever evidence we can get.
Note that I listed items 1 and 2 above so I could make a distinction between potential scams versus treatments that just aren't efficacious. I did this for a reason. I have been contemplating three potential possibilities for the Follicept treatment. I was contemplating if it could be a scam, if it may not be efficacious, and if it may be unsafe. We here have the right to think about stuff like this and we also have the right to try to figure this stuff out. I understand that you're concerned that Follicept could feel offended by our efforts to examine these 3 issues but Follicept should keep in mind that we have seen many many scams, many failed treatments, and many unsafe treatments.
That aside, after putting all of the evidence together, and even digging for evidence on my own, I am virtually certain that we can RULE OUT the idea that Follicept is trying to scam anybody. I even warned Follicept on page 80 of this very thread that I would be "keeping score" because I was doing my own search for whether or not Follicept was trying to scam anyone. I went so far as to try to bait them to see how they would react to bait. I'm telling you that they are I am 99.9% certain that they are not trying to scamming anyone. Believe me or not, it makes no difference, because in the end it WILL BE borne out that they are not trying to scam anyone. They never were trying to scam anyone. The product may not be effective but they aren't trying to do anything dishonest.Comment
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But would this replace the need for finasteride? PlsComment
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