We have a vehicle for CB-03-01: VERSAPRO

[ShookOnes]

^Iontophoresis would majorly improve the results of almost any topical. The problem is, the topicals have to be modified so that they are charged, which also makes them unstable. Unless you become an experienced chemist and modify your own drugs, buy an ionto device, and actually know what you're doing, you are wasting your time. Minoxidil with ionto works great, but it's modified and by the time you ordered it and it reached you it would be useless.

do you think we'll be needing this device for cb when it comes out?

[Shinobi]

I think it comes down to ease of use. While most people on here would be willing to use the device if safe and effective, we don't represent the general population. Merck most likely stuck with an oral pill for finasteride (maybe part efficacy too) because they thought people would prefer s pill to applying a solution once or twice a day.

Yes you get a point about the ease of use. Most people want something very easy (some % variation represent at the end millions $), but im not sure a topical is more hard to make people use it than a pills, many people hate take pills and see it as a medicine with side effect, while a topical you think side free and "hair care".

About the price I cant believe a company such as cosmo dont have a strategy to mass produce this chemical and make good return on investment.

[Justinian]

If the result are real its impressive. They should communicate on wich area they notice such result rather than make an average. Anti androgen seems to be innefficiant for the hairline while effective for vertex.



You cant compare dermroll, wich makes holes and then open the blood vessels directly for exposure to certain chemical, to iontophoresis wich is a method totally non invasive and can distribute molecula via electric charges. Its not about "pushing the compounds too far" its more about reach blood vessel or not and about reach the depth where it can act or not (4mm for exemple for dp cells). This method shouldnt bring systemic more than others classic vehicle. Im wondering why not much company focus on that method now

I think it comes down to ease of use. While most people on here would be willing to use the device if safe and effective, we don't represent the general population. Merck most likely stuck with an oral pill for finasteride (maybe part efficacy too) because they thought people would prefer s pill to applying a solution once or twice a day.

[Shinobi]

Hi guys, what are your thoughts:

Cosmo 2010 Trials (apologies for re-posting)
a) 1% CB applied 5 times over 4 weeks via iontophoresis
b) Above resulting in growth of new hairs of +54% in a 4 week period, and density also increasing from 0.41 to 0.88mm over 100% http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/...010-10-06.aspx


Questions:

a) Altho' 1% dosage, not sure of volume of vehicle to allow calc on the mg of CB in 2010, but let's assume 5ml of vehicle (enough to cover head) and thus 50mg of CB per week in 2010 - what do we now think of having to use the new 7 days x 2 treatments a day x 50mg per application which would be x14 mgs of CB per week compared to 2010?

Odd to think that CB delivery via this new vehicle would be so inefficient compared to Ion especially as many on here have stated that it's a relatively smaller compound and PG/Eth would work. If we take Ion to be 100% effective at delivery, then i guess all we're saying is that you need less than 10% of new CB+vehicle to get into scalp... seems poor delivery as sure i've read that most topical vehicles are much higher

b) I find the results odd - doubling hair width and then also growing +50% in new hair numbers in just 4 weeks is ridiculously phenomenal - especially as CB is an AA... quite a few/majority on here saying the CB would only do similar to other AAs (RU) i.e. stop future loss but nothing for growth. I'm surprised that such results have taken so long to get to Phase II / 2015... youd think such 2010 results would speed thing ups considerably as massive game changer

Obviously totally blind to issues of the chemical and Cosmo itself, but do feel 2010 results dont quite feel right. Potential is massive according to the above, but not sure if i'd put my mortgage on them being actual (altho obviously praying they are)


Anyway, more thinking out aloud - bring on the Phase II results (and hopefully having one of us partaking so we can see if 4 wks growth is actually possible...!)

If the result are real its impressive. They should communicate on wich area they notice such result rather than make an average. Anti androgen seems to be innefficiant for the hairline while effective for vertex.

u must be careful! sometimes pushing the compounds to far can reach the blood stream. thats why its not a good idea to demroll with minox in my eyes !

You cant compare dermroll, wich makes holes and then open the blood vessels directly for exposure to certain chemical, to iontophoresis wich is a method totally non invasive and can distribute molecula via electric charges. Its not about "pushing the compounds too far" its more about reach blood vessel or not and about reach the depth where it can act or not (4mm for exemple for dp cells). This method shouldnt bring systemic more than others classic vehicle. Im wondering why not much company focus on that method now

[burtandernie]

I think its way too early to say much of anything for the verdict on CB. You have to keep in mind they said it has moderate anti-inflammatory effect which you can interpret different ways whether that means its just from fighting off androgens at the follicle that helps fight inflammation or there could be much more to that. So I think the results could be much better or worse than anyone theorizes here because no one honestly has any idea.
I think from what cosmo said so far it works to some degree but we need more info to know exactly

[lilpauly]

u must be careful! sometimes pushing the compounds to far can reach the blood stream. thats why its not a good idea to demroll with minox in my eyes !

[Kudu]

^Iontophoresis would majorly improve the results of almost any topical. The problem is, the topicals have to be modified so that they are charged, which also makes them unstable. Unless you become an experienced chemist and modify your own drugs, buy an ionto device, and actually know what you're doing, you are wasting your time. Minoxidil with ionto works great, but it's modified and by the time you ordered it and it reached you it would be useless.

[charlie76761]

Hi guys, what are your thoughts:

Cosmo 2010 Trials (apologies for re-posting)
a) 1% CB applied 5 times over 4 weeks via iontophoresis
b) Above resulting in growth of new hairs of +54% in a 4 week period, and density also increasing from 0.41 to 0.88mm over 100% http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/...010-10-06.aspx


Questions:

a) Altho' 1% dosage, not sure of volume of vehicle to allow calc on the mg of CB in 2010, but let's assume 5ml of vehicle (enough to cover head) and thus 50mg of CB per week in 2010 - what do we now think of having to use the new 7 days x 2 treatments a day x 50mg per application which would be x14 mgs of CB per week compared to 2010?

Odd to think that CB delivery via this new vehicle would be so inefficient compared to Ion especially as many on here have stated that it's a relatively smaller compound and PG/Eth would work. If we take Ion to be 100% effective at delivery, then i guess all we're saying is that you need less than 10% of new CB+vehicle to get into scalp... seems poor delivery as sure i've read that most topical vehicles are much higher

b) I find the results odd - doubling hair width and then also growing +50% in new hair numbers in just 4 weeks is ridiculously phenomenal - especially as CB is an AA... quite a few/majority on here saying the CB would only do similar to other AAs (RU) i.e. stop future loss but nothing for growth. I'm surprised that such results have taken so long to get to Phase II / 2015... youd think such 2010 results would speed thing ups considerably as massive game changer

Obviously totally blind to issues of the chemical and Cosmo itself, but do feel 2010 results dont quite feel right. Potential is massive according to the above, but not sure if i'd put my mortgage on them being actual (altho obviously praying they are)


Anyway, more thinking out aloud - bring on the Phase II results (and hopefully having one of us partaking so we can see if 4 wks growth is actually possible...!)

[kmit028]

Nope, this one is actually for hair. It just started and will last for 1 year.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/...b+03+01&rank=2

Oh, well then go for it!
And leak all their secrets back to us

[Justinian]

there is no reason to join as this is an acne trial, I dont think they ll let u get away with using it on your head, instead of your face lol

Nope, this one is actually for hair. It just started and will last for 1 year.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02279823?term=cb+03+01&rank=2

[kmit028]

I don't see why not to join it. If you do, definitely keep us updated and let us know what the vehicle is (if allowed).

there is no reason to join as this is an acne trial, I dont think they ll let u get away with using it on your head, instead of your face lol

[Justinian]

Ok, I can't remember if I asked priorly, but I might sign up for the Austin CB trial since I'm in Texas. So can any give me any information, from personal experience and the precious study, about the safety of CB, considering also the higher dosage and different vehicles they will be using.

Any one can give me some reassuring science about why this thing is supposed to be neutral when it enters the blood stream? Has that been verified?

Please, help here, because if I'm convinced, I will definitely keep a log and share my results on here as well.

Thank you.

I don't see why not to join it. If you do, definitely keep us updated and let us know what the vehicle is (if allowed).

This explains the safety of CB-03-01. http://www.drugs.com/clinical_trials...ders-5399.html

"CB-03-01’s mechanism of action is the competition with Testosterone and DHT at the human androgen-receptor level. CB-03-01 is devoid of systemic anti-androgenic activity, as far as it does not inhibit gonadotropins hypersecretion, and it possesses a
moderate anti-inflammatory activity. In preclinical studies, CB-03-01 was shown to be not mutagenic and rapidly metabolized to the parent cortexolone, a physiological substance lacking anti-androgen activity, by human plasma and skin. CB-03-01 has
also been shown to be well tolerated and devoid of toxicity when applied repeatedly."

[burtandernie]

I think the risk for CB is pretty low as far as drugs go. The cost is probably my main concern along with the strength of it. No reason not to sign up other than location and time your way better off getting in legit trials than using what exists now.

[inbrugge]

Ok, I can't remember if I asked priorly, but I might sign up for the Austin CB trial since I'm in Texas. So can any give me any information, from personal experience and the precious study, about the safety of CB, considering also the higher dosage and different vehicles they will be using.

Any one can give me some reassuring science about why this thing is supposed to be neutral when it enters the blood stream? Has that been verified?

Please, help here, because if I'm convinced, I will definitely keep a log and share my results on here as well.

Thank you.

[Gjm127]

You'd need the 5% CB and the right vehicle to really see its benefits from what I take away from this thread. Unless you have thousands to throw (for that %) and a full year (since it's an anti-androgen) of home testing for this product, you will never see its true benefits.

Better leave it at Cosmo to figure that out with their budget, they are after all, performing these clinical trials for that.