Dr Lauster's Team (Berlin University of Technology)

[Axel]

Question:

Where do they see the biggest bottleneck? Regulation, Research, Funding, or other..?

[Sogeking]

My biggest question if this is true is how come they are starting trials if, as Dr. Beren Atac said, they still haven't figured it all out. I believe it was a week ago that Desmond said they are close but still haven't nailed it (meaning the gene expression is not high enough to form a hair follicle being able to produce a terminal hair).

So why would they be starting clinical trials, and for what kind of treatment exactly? Are they multiplying hair follicles?

Anyways it seems if they are conducting clinical trials in EU they have to post their clinical trial information to EMA and to EudraCT.

[nameless]

My biggest question if this is true is how come they are starting trials if, as Dr. Beren Atac said, they still haven't figured it all out. I believe it was a week ago that Desmond said they are close but still haven't nailed it (meaning the gene expression is not high enough to form a hair follicle being able to produce a terminal hair).

So why would they be starting clinical trials, and for what kind of treatment exactly? Are they multiplying hair follicles?

Anyways it seems if they are conducting clinical trials in EU they have to post their clinical trial information to EMA and to EudraCT.

You're right. I pointed out that Team Berlin may not be 100% ready and I was called a troll. The other posters don't like hearing the truth.

I suspect that Team Berlin is unsure if they are ready to proceed with human trials or not. I think they have decided things look look good enough to do implanting and see what happens. They have not implanted these follicles in a human head so nobody knows yet if Team Berlin has solved the hair loss dilemma or not, but many posters here are popping champagne corks. They might be right, but they also might be wrong.

[JZA70]

Not too surprised to hear that they're apparently starting trials, they've been saying that since 2010.

"Research leader Dr Roland Lauster said within five years millions of hair-loss sufferers could grow new hair from their own stem cells and have it implanted their bald spots."

Dr Lauster told the Germany newspaper Die Welt that preparations for clinical trials were 'already in motion.'

For the next round of crowd funding, we should send someone to this trial.

[hellouser]

My biggest question if this is true is how come they are starting trials if, as Dr. Beren Atac said, they still haven't figured it all out. I believe it was a week ago that Desmond said they are close but still haven't nailed it (meaning the gene expression is not high enough to form a hair follicle being able to produce a terminal hair).

So why would they be starting clinical trials, and for what kind of treatment exactly? Are they multiplying hair follicles?

Anyways it seems if they are conducting clinical trials in EU they have to post their clinical trial information to EMA and to EudraCT.

I don't believe it's absolutely necessary to create new follicles to regain our hair when old follicles/cells in our scalp still exist. Perhaps the method they're about to trial would be similar to aderans/replicel?

[nameless]

Wow your ignorance is remarkable. This numbers are nowhere near correct.

It's not me. It's you. Listen to me, there are still issues that aren't totally understood and they may need to be understood and resolved before implanting lab-grown follicles can be an effective treatment for hair loss. I will give you one example of issues that may still need to be addressed:

* reduced adipose stem cells in the skin of the scalp.

Now you can call me ignorant on this issue but if you call me ignorant you're also calling Dr. Gardner ignorant since on this very site Dr. Gardner said that adipose (fat) cells are a key issues that have to be resolved. He said that he and Jahoda will try different means to get these cells into the mix. This means they aren't sure yet what is the best way to add these cells to the mix. So if they haven't figured out the best way to add these cells into the mix then all the required bugs aren't worked out yet because these cells would be key to keeping the new follicles enlarged after they're implanted into the skin. These are the cells that Yale proved produce the growth factors that make the follicles enlarge. If there aren't enough of these cells in the skin then newly implanted lab-grown follicles could shrink, and perhaps rapidly.

[Duke]

I will put all questions in one post before I'll sent them to Dr. Lindner (in german)

No time now though, doing it tomorrow morning!

[JZA70]

I don't get how they can even be considering trials when there's still so much work left to be done.

[sdsurfin]

I will put all questions in one post before I'll sent them to Dr. Lindner (in german)

No time now though, doing it tomorrow morning!

The last thing you should do is bug researchers with silly questions about timelines and seeking faster regulations in Japan etc. These guys are clearly trying to get something to work and get it to market, and they will do it in whatever way is most cost effective. you're not going to learn anything otherwise. No one is trying to stall anything, things cost money and business is conducted according to efficacy, costs, rewards, and regulations.

I would however be curious to know what they expect scientifically from doing trials of these follicles, since they don't seem to be perfected yet. I think we are still far away from a treatment using these methods, but this is still good news if it's true. If the pseudo follicles fail, they will probably still help to deduce what else is needed. I think that the sooner they start putting engineered microfollicles in human skin, the sooner they will discover how to perfect a cosmetic treatment, and so these trials make sense. No way this comes to any kind of cosmetic treatment in 5 years. This is a first iteration, not the endgame, but still good stuff. I'm sure the trial will consist of something like injecting micofollicles into a very small area of skin, somewhat like the first replicel trials. I'm not holding my breath that they are gonna produce great terminal hairs (not to mention properly cycling, colored, angle, etc etc), but whatever deficiencies exist will point to new fixes, and who knows, maybe they will miraculously be good enough to kickstart healthy new hair or revive old follicles. One concern i have in the grand scheme of things as related to new follicle injection is that you still have millions of miniaturizing follicles that are telling the surrounding scalp and fat tissue to die off. who knows if the influence of the new follices will be enough to balance it out. Using something like CB will probably still be quite necessary. In any case, i think getting a great head of hair is going to prove extremely expensive for the next few decades at least.

[sascha]

The last thing you should do is bug researchers with silly questions about timelines and seeking faster regulations in Japan etc. These guys are clearly trying to get something to work and get it to market, and they will do it in whatever way is most cost effective. you're not going to learn anything otherwise. No one is trying to stall anything, things cost money and business is conducted according to efficacy, costs, rewards, and regulations.

I would however be curious to know what they expect scientifically from doing trials of these follicles, since they don't seem to be perfected yet. I think we are still far away from a treatment using these methods, but this is still good news if it's true. If the pseudo follicles fail, they will probably still help to deduce what else is needed. I think that the sooner they start putting engineered microfollicles in human skin, the sooner they will discover how to perfect a cosmetic treatment, and so these trials make sense. No way this comes to any kind of cosmetic treatment in 5 years. This is a first iteration, not the endgame, but still good stuff. I'm sure the trial will consist of something like injecting micofollicles into a very small area of skin, somewhat like the first replicel trials. I'm not holding my breath that they are gonna produce great terminal hairs (not to mention properly cycling, colored, angle, etc etc), but whatever deficiencies exist will point to new fixes, and who knows, maybe they will miraculously be good enough to kickstart healthy new hair or revive old follicles. One concern i have in the grand scheme of things as related to new follicle injection is that you still have millions of miniaturizing follicles that are telling the surrounding scalp and fat tissue to die off. who knows if the influence of the new follices will be enough to balance it out. Using something like CB will probably still be quite necessary. In any case, i think getting a great head of hair is going to prove extremely expensive for the next few decades at least.

For a guy that does not like timelines you sure make a lot yourself. I appreciate your question though.
Question: Could you explain how far you advanced since the news from 2010. What is different?
@Duke keep all the question, this is our forum, not the forum of a few "chosen ones".

[hellouser]

The last thing you should do is bug researchers with silly questions about timelines and seeking faster regulations in Japan etc. These guys are clearly trying to get something to work and get it to market, and they will do it in whatever way is most cost effective. you're not going to learn anything otherwise. No one is trying to stall anything, things cost money and business is conducted according to efficacy, costs, rewards, and regulations.

I would however be curious to know what they expect scientifically from doing trials of these follicles, since they don't seem to be perfected yet. I think we are still far away from a treatment using these methods, but this is still good news if it's true. If the pseudo follicles fail, they will probably still help to deduce what else is needed. I think that the sooner they start putting engineered microfollicles in human skin, the sooner they will discover how to perfect a cosmetic treatment, and so these trials make sense. No way this comes to any kind of cosmetic treatment in 5 years. This is a first iteration, not the endgame, but still good stuff. I'm sure the trial will consist of something like injecting micofollicles into a very small area of skin, somewhat like the first replicel trials. I'm not holding my breath that they are gonna produce great terminal hairs (not to mention properly cycling, colored, angle, etc etc), but whatever deficiencies exist will point to new fixes, and who knows, maybe they will miraculously be good enough to kickstart healthy new hair or revive old follicles. One concern i have in the grand scheme of things as related to new follicle injection is that you still have millions of miniaturizing follicles that are telling the surrounding scalp and fat tissue to die off. who knows if the influence of the new follices will be enough to balance it out. Using something like CB will probably still be quite necessary. In any case, i think getting a great head of hair is going to prove extremely expensive for the next few decades at least.

for a guy that does not like timelines you sure make a lot yourself.

lol!

[sdsurfin]

For a guy that does not like timelines you sure make a lot yourself. I appreciate your question though.
Question: Could you explain how far you advanced since the news from 2010. What is different?
@Duke keep all the question, this is our forum, not the forum of a few "chosen ones".

Everything is a guess. The only thing that's for sure is clinical trials take a really long time, in addition to other obstacles. getting any technology from the drawing board to the market takes forever, always. saying anything will happen in five years is ridiculous, not just balding related. Things are too dependent on money and broader factors. it's similar to concept cars, you see incredible vehicles that are fabricated and can run on hydrogen fuel etc, look insanely futuristic etc etc, but they either never come to fruition or they do in like 30 years. medical progress is even slower. If you look at the history of treatments in any field, there is always a good 20 year time lapse between making a finding and translating that to treatments. They are barely scratching the surface of stem cell hair replacement.

[hellouser]

Everything is a guess. The only thing that's for sure is clinical trials take a really long time, in addition to other obstacles. getting any technology from the drawing board to the market takes forever, always. saying anything will happen in five years is ridiculous, not just balding related. Things are too dependent on money and broader factors. it's similar to concept cars, you see incredible vehicles that are fabricated and can run on hydrogen fuel etc, look insanely futuristic etc etc, but they either never come to fruition or they do in like 30 years. medical progress is even slower. If you look at the history of treatments in any field, there is always a good 20 year time lapse between making a finding and translating that to treatments. They are barely scratching the surface of stem cell hair replacement.

Do you have any other inside information you'd like to share? You seem to have all the answers.

[Sogeking]

I don't believe it's absolutely necessary to create new follicles to regain our hair when old follicles/cells in our scalp still exist. Perhaps the method they're about to trial would be similar to aderans/replicel?

Yeah, anything is possible. I mean if they are going with clinical trials specifically for hair related diseases, with AGA amongst them, than that is HUGE news. That is why I am so curious about this. Gah it kinda sucks being in the dark so much but I understand it.

Yes clinical trials last a long time but hey if they are starting now that is very good.

But there are too many questions about this we need more info. Hopefully Lindner will answer the questions Duke sends. Here's hoping... Fingers crossed guys.

[hellouser]

Yeah, anything is possible. I mean if they are going with clinical trials specifically for hair related diseases, with AGA amongst them, than that is HUGE news. That is why I am so curious about this. Gah it kinda sucks being in the dark so much but I understand it.

Yes clinical trials last a long time but hey if they are starting now that is very good.

But there are too many questions about this we need more info. Hopefully Lindner will answer the questions Duke sends. Here's hoping... Fingers crossed guys.

Well let's look at the facts:

Replicel began their Phase I clinical trials not that long ago, essentially in 2011. They stalled for about a year or so and they may go commercial in 2016 thanks to Japan's the new legislation. That's a 5 year span WITH slacking. It would be pretty ridiculous to say 'there's no chance in hell Dr. Lauster's team is going to match that.' Of course they can. It's being done RIGHT NOW. Aderan's took forever... but I blame that largely on incompetence with finding investors. Imagine, we could have had a legit treatment that at least permanently stops further hair loss with better results than finasteride/minox albeit not full reversal. I'd pay for that.

Fingers crossed for speedy trials with both Lauster and Replicel. I do wonder what that team in Taiwan is doing with the 400 man trials and DP cells.