adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[PaddyBateman]

source?!

Myself. I had surgery there. Ive discussed it in my several post-op check ups.

[PaddyBateman]

Zeiring? The TV doctor? That guy is as credible as Dr. Drew.

Haha, oh come on.

Spencer Kobren would disagree somewhat.

And it's the UK clinics as far as I know.

[hgs1989]

I believe that Ziering UK have been conducting clinical trials on Adipose stem cell this year, and are looking to start providing this treatment following a successful trial.

source?!

[hellouser]

I believe that Ziering UK have been conducting clinical trials on Adipose stem cell this year, and are looking to start providing this treatment following a successful trial.

Zeiring? The TV doctor? That guy is as credible as Dr. Drew.

[PaddyBateman]

I believe that Ziering UK have been conducting clinical trials on Adipose stem cell this year, and are looking to start providing this treatment following a successful trial.

[Arashi]

names of plastic surgeon,clinic,laboratory

Good questions ! Also ask them about any guarantees, preferably with haircounts. Ask them about possible shedding. And ask them about the cell culturing: how many passes, how many cells, are there benefits, health risks, things like that. Good luck !

[zeos]

I have a phone consultation scheduled tomorrow with the clinic in Greece, anyone have any questions you want me to ask?

names of plastic surgeon,clinic,laboratory

[Alias123]

I have a phone consultation scheduled tomorrow with the clinic in Greece, anyone have any questions you want me to ask?

[nameless]

@JarJarbinx/nameless:

First of all, this is going to be my last post on the subject. Let's keep this thread on topic from now on. So, after this post I will give you the opportunity to make more baseless accusations cause I know you will want to have the last word and you're going to make up that I said all kinds of stupid things without any proof as usual. That's all good. Then, After that let's never mention dr Gardner again in this thread and keep it on topic. Deal ?

Now first of all:

I actually agree with this. Even though it would have most probably resulted in dr Gardner being around here some longer, I don't believe in a system where a moderator or anyone decides what can be said and what can't be. I'm a strong advocate of freedom of speech and a system like that sooner or later always leads to problems. So yeah, you can ask whatever interests you. In fact, I'm hoping we can motivate Dr Gardner to come back here next year after the next conference and do a short Q&A again. However, next time, just please consider that a professor like him comes here for his enjoyment. Most academics with a passion for their job enjoy conversation about it. To keep it enjoyable for him to, please at least consider next time to:

* Just ask ONE question at a time ! Think of the thing you would want to know the most, post it and then let him answer that question first and give others the opportunity to post questions and have their answers. Don't flood him with tons of questions/posts in a row.
* Just don't tell him how to do his job !
* Really read his answer thoroughly and TRY to understand what he says before moving on to the next question !
* Ask yourself, is there even anyway he could possibly know the answer to my question ?
* Keep up with the thread and don't post questions that have been asked before. If you can't bring that up, then just dont post at all !
* Ask yourself: WHY am I even asking this ?
* Read the questions from others ! Some really interesting and intelligent questions where posted by posters like Joachim, SdSurfin, JJJJrS and many more. I really enjoyed reading them and often times that's much more interesting than just pushing your next question online.

Basically just try to keep all this enjoyable for him too. Of course he understands not everybody is an academic here, that doesn't matter at all !

Anyway, just some well meant advice and hopefully next time he'll stick around some longer !

Well, I see you went through a lot of trouble to type and post a long boring, and no doubt misleading, post to detail all the things I did that you claim drove Dr. Gardner away. I will make my post short and sweet.

How about if Dr. Gardner comes back you refrain from posting and let Gardner talk to everyone except you and that ssudsurfin guy, who posts whole books to Dr. Gardner. If you and ssudsurfin would refrain from posting I'm sure that would be sufficient to keep Dr. Gardner from leaving again.

And when you get right down to it you're posts are full if mistakes and incorrect conclusions anyway, such as your post stating that the 2014 hair loss congress researchers solved the trichogeniticy problem and how needhairasap is in cahoots with Yoram. Give me a break.

Now let's you and I stop our bickering so that me and the people with sense can evaluate the idea of ADSCs to possibly treat hair loss. Keep in mind that Dr. Gardner said that Jahoda himself is going to use these same cells to get DP cells to grow follicles so this means that Jahoda himself believes that these cells can enlarge follicles.

Let's have peace and constructive dialogue.

[Arashi]

@JarJarbinx/nameless:

First of all, this is going to be my last post on the subject. Let's keep this thread on topic from now on. So, after this post I will give you the opportunity to make more baseless accusations cause I know you will want to have the last word and you're going to make up that I said all kinds of stupid things without any proof as usual. That's all good. Then, After that let's never mention dr Gardner again in this thread and keep it on topic. Deal ?

Now first of all:

I will ask the questions I ask and you ask the questions you ask.

I actually agree with this. Even though it would have most probably resulted in dr Gardner being around here some longer, I don't believe in a system where a moderator or anyone decides what can be said and what can't be. I'm a strong advocate of freedom of speech and a system like that sooner or later always leads to problems. So yeah, you can ask whatever interests you. In fact, I'm hoping we can motivate Dr Gardner to come back here next year after the next conference and do a short Q&A again. However, next time, just please consider that a professor like him comes here for his enjoyment. Most academics with a passion for their job enjoy conversation about it. To keep it enjoyable for him to, please at least consider next time to:

* Just ask ONE question at a time ! Think of the thing you would want to know the most, post it and then let him answer that question first and give others the opportunity to post questions and have their answers. Don't flood him with tons of questions/posts in a row.
* Just don't tell him how to do his job !
* Really read his answer thoroughly and TRY to understand what he says before moving on to the next question !
* Ask yourself, is there even anyway he could possibly know the answer to my question ?
* Keep up with the thread and don't post questions that have been asked before. If you can't bring that up, then just dont post at all !
* Ask yourself: WHY am I even asking this ?
* Read the questions from others ! Some really interesting and intelligent questions where posted by posters like Joachim, SdSurfin, JJJJrS and many more. I really enjoyed reading them and often times that's much more interesting than just pushing your next question online.

Basically just try to keep all this enjoyable for him too. Of course he understands not everybody is an academic here, that doesn't matter at all !

Anyway, just some well meant advice and hopefully next time he'll stick around some longer !

[Arashi]

Ok, but what if the hair goes into crazy shedding like it would on minoxidil? Do we then say 'yeah, the treatment makes hair worse' only to find out a year later that it actually has positive effects? This would require several hair counts over an extended period of time.

Yeah you could give them a year as a time period to do the 2 hair counts, any shedding should have stopped long before the end of a year. But maybe they say that shedding is highly unlikely to occur anyway and they'd agree with a shorter time period. But, most likely, they won't do the hair count anyway since they're unsure of the results themselves. Which would be enough reason for me to move on.

[hellouser]

About the hair cycles: at any given point about 10% of the hair is in its resting phase. Unless injecting those cells would somehow influence that cycle there wouldn't be any substantial change in hair count, so I don't think that would be a problem. A hair count itself is rather easy to perform, several clinics can offer it if you ask for it. I don't think they'd need to mark it with tattoo's, just a hair count on 3-4 spots in the treated area would be enough.

It's something I'd definitely ask for anyway.

Ok, but what if the hair goes into crazy shedding like it would on minoxidil? Do we then say 'yeah, the treatment makes hair worse' only to find out a year later that it actually has positive effects? This would require several hair counts over an extended period of time.

[Arashi]

Wouldn't it be REALLY difficult to do a hair count? I mean, the only time that it's really obvious that there's more hair is after an HT or some seriously good results with finasteride/minoxidil/ru58841 (which rarely happen).

You have to taken into account the patient being on any existing meds. And then if growth does occur, you could attribute it to meds rather than the ADSC treatment. But let's say they're not on meds... what about hair growth cycles? Could it not be possible for growth to be at the hands of hair coming back into the anagen phase in sync? How would they even do a hair count though? Using one area would be difficult.... and how would they even count one area before and ensure the EXACT same area gets counted again months later? I can only see this happening with dotted tattoo markers; 4 points creating a square but done in several areas across the balding scalp.

About the hair cycles: at any given point about 10% of the hair is in its resting phase. Unless injecting those cells would somehow influence that cycle there wouldn't be any substantial change in hair count, so I don't think that would be a problem. A hair count itself is rather easy to perform, several clinics can offer it if you ask for it. I don't think they'd need to mark it with tattoo's, just a hair count on 3-4 spots in the treated area would be enough.

It's something I'd definitely ask for anyway.

[hellouser]

What I'd ask them is to give you a guarantee. Ask them to do a hair count before and after and in case there's no improvement, a restitution of all your money. You're paying a hefty sum, you will want to have results ! Most probably they'll give you some BS like "yeah we can't do that cause it doesn't work in all patients" or something like that. In that case, I'd move on.

Wouldn't it be REALLY difficult to do a hair count? I mean, the only time that it's really obvious that there's more hair is after an HT or some seriously good results with finasteride/minoxidil/ru58841 (which rarely happen).

You have to taken into account the patient being on any existing meds. And then if growth does occur, you could attribute it to meds rather than the ADSC treatment. But let's say they're not on meds... what about hair growth cycles? Could it not be possible for growth to be at the hands of hair coming back into the anagen phase in sync? How would they even do a hair count though? Using one area would be difficult.... and how would they even count one area before and ensure the EXACT same area gets counted again months later? I can only see this happening with dotted tattoo markers; 4 points creating a square but done in several areas across the balding scalp.

[nameless]

don't think so,
i have just found a clinic in athens which is offering the ADSC treatment(maybe this is an annex of the Swiss clinic in athens-we have to find this out)and collaborates with that laboratory(http://theracell.eu/)

we should contact theracell to get all the addresses of clinics where we can get this treatment
with which clinic are you in contact?

This is the clinic I'm talking with:

http://ddrheinrich.com/en/treatments/face-skin-hair/

As I posted they are willing to entertain the idea of a group discount.

And you are definitely right that we should get in touch with theracell to try to learn the addresses of ALL of the clinics where we can get this treatment so that we can determine which is the best clinic. And given that the ddrheinrich clinic was positive about the idea of giving a group discount I think other clinics that offer this treatment might also be willing to give a group discount.