adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[nameless]

No. See, that's what you misunderstand. When Gardner and Jahoda are talking about fat cells, they're not specifically talking about stem cells (which can secrete growth factors). They're talking about the WHOLE fat layer and how it's related to follicle development (really, just read that link that Gardner posted)

I don't know the extent of Jahoda's interest in fat. I do know that he has an interest in fat. It doesn't make a big difference if he's interested in all fat tissue, some fat tissue, or just the ADSCs because in any case if he uses fat tissue he will be using ADSCs since they are part of fat tissue.

And for all we know if he uses other parts of fat along with the ADSCs and finds success it will have only been the ADSCs which prompted the success.


Haha. You quote some study on mice and then you claim that *I* was the one who wrongly stated hairloss was cured ? Can I quote to this specific post from now on that you state that hairloss is cured then ? Man, you fail to understand that mice DP cells can be expanded retaining 100% inductivity since ages. They can grow a thick layer of hair on bald mice easy as that. Unfortunately it's a whole different story for us humans.

You knock me for talking about a Yale study involving mice even as you brandish Jahoda's interest in fat tissue rather than just ADSCs. But the post in which Aaron Gardner talked about Jahoda's interest in fat refers also to a study involving mice so what are you whining about me quoting from a study involving mice when you are doing the same thing?

[hgs1989]

I'm not saying it is impossible to regain some hairs via stem cells (secreting growth factors). I'm just calling JarJar on his BS, he makes it sound like dr Gardner and Jahoda are into all this. They're not.

I've talked to some knowledgable people who have been experimenting with growth factors, they also doubt that there's something here. There's no real , credible scientific proof for all of this. And stem cells in general have proven to be beneficial in animal models but when applied to humans, pretty much all experiments failed or had VERY limited successes. Current thinking is that stem cells just travel to different parts of the body after injection and rarely stay in the area where they were injected, or simply convert into other tissue like skin.

So, all this is highly experimental, costs are very steep, there's no real credible scientific proof and there are risks associated especially with extraction of the fat. But again, I'm not saying it's impossible to regain some hairs, who knows ...

but the injection of growth factors certainly would work.

[joachim]

I'm not saying it is impossible to regain some hairs via stem cells (secreting growth factors). I'm just calling JarJar on his BS, he makes it sound like dr Gardner and Jahoda are into all this. They're not.

I've talked to some knowledgable people who have been experimenting with growth factors, they also doubt that there's something here. There's no real , credible scientific proof for all of this. And stem cells in general have proven to be beneficial in animal models but when applied to humans, pretty much all experiments failed or had VERY limited successes. Current thinking is that stem cells just travel to different parts of the body after injection and rarely stay in the area where they were injected, or simply convert into other tissue like skin.

So, all this is highly experimental, costs are very steep and there are risks associated especially with extraction of the fat. But again, I'm not saying it's impossible to regain some hairs, I just dont know

agreed. i too think that growth factors alone is not the final cure. i think it can give boosts like fin or minox or hopefully a bit better. when applied multiple times, there's maybe a chance to give a lot better results. the price however is, e.g. from the dr. heinrich clinic, is a joke. for such an easy treatment paying thousands of euros without a real proof for success. and you need to that multiple times. but if we see some proof and good results in the near future i would even spend that money.

[Arashi]

although i totally agree with you arashi about jarjar and his nonsense, i have to say, we shouldn't discard the idea about the fat cells and growth factors yet. indeed, i think the whole growth factor stuff has big potential if used correctly. it's like histogen with the difference that it could be used today. histogen on the other hand probably will never be released because of incompentence and missing funds.

I'm not saying it is impossible to regain some hairs via stem cells (secreting growth factors). I'm just calling JarJar on his BS, he makes it sound like dr Gardner and Jahoda are into all this. They're not.

I've talked to some knowledgable people who have been experimenting with growth factors, they also doubt that there's something here. There's no real , credible scientific proof for all of this. And stem cells in general have proven to be beneficial in animal models but when applied to humans, pretty much all experiments failed or had VERY limited successes. Current thinking is that stem cells just travel to different parts of the body after injection and rarely stay in the area where they were injected, or simply convert into other tissue like skin.

So, all this is highly experimental, costs are very steep, there's no real credible scientific proof and there are risks associated especially with extraction of the fat. But again, I'm not saying it's impossible to regain some hairs, who knows ...

[caddarik79]

http://www.nehair.com/stem-cells

swa this, while searching for other clinics offering stem celles therapy or transplant!

[Arashi]

* So f'm what if Jahoda has more than one reason for not using growth factors. I know Gardner said that but I didn't feel like typing out all of his reasons. It doesn't matter what all the reasons are - the point is that they don't want to use growth factors so they will use the fat cells instead. That was his point.

No. See, that's what you misunderstand. When Gardner and Jahoda are talking about fat cells, they're not specifically talking about stem cells (which can secrete growth factors). They're talking about the WHOLE fat layer and how it's related to follicle development (really, just read that link that Gardner posted)

* I stand by my statement that it IS a waste of time for Jahoda to go through the exercise of finding out which growth factors prompt hair growth

Yeah that's you're problem. You think you know better than one of the smartest scientists in the world. The irony here is that you don't even understand what he's researching.

So now you are speculating that there are other things in the adipose tissue besides these cells that prompt hair growth

I'm not speculating. Just read Jahoda's paper.

even though the Yale scientists said that this one group of cells (adipose precursor cells) is sufficient to activate hair growth.

LOL, if that were true, then what are you even waiting for ? You're cured man !! LOL

http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(11)00817-8

It says that these cells are sufficient to activate the hair growth process, fool. That means nothing else is requred. Go away!

Haha. You quote some study on mice and then you claim that *I* was the one who wrongly stated hairloss was cured ? Can I quote to this specific post from now on that you state that hairloss is cured then ? Man, you fail to understand that mice DP cells can be expanded retaining 100% inductivity since ages. They can grow a thick layer of hair on bald mice easy as that. Unfortunately it's a whole different story for us humans.

[FearTheLoss]

Safety and effectiveness.... Dr. Cole is looking into it.

Chuck
Dr. Cole's office

Is he going to be running trials of his own with this? or how is he going about this?

FTL

[nameless]

You just keep on confusing things !! Dr Gardner said that there are several inherent problems with growth factors, like steep production costs, difficulties to produce and short half life. Therefore, he concludes, it would make more sense to try to induce the scalp to secrete growth factors as an alternative to injecting them directly. He never said anything about effectiveness, just that adding growth factors themselves doesn't make sense to him. See: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post174467


That's because you were too busy firing stupid questions at him. If you would have read his ANSWERS you would have realized that his research has NOTHING to do with those injections you are interested in. He even posted a link to Jahoda's work on fat cells. I'm sure you haven't read it. https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post174908

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0059811

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16284&p=174908&viewfull=1#post174908

LOL, yeah you know everything so much better than Jahoda. I'm still waiting for your first paper, that should be interesting, LOL But of course his research is VERY important because as you can read in his paper, it turns out fat cells (not just those stem cells or growth factors you are interested in, but really the WHOLE adipose LAYER) turn out to play a role in follicle development.


LOL, nice story bro. But you miss the point of course, as usual. Jahoda is interested in restoring inductivity, not in creating 'larger' follicles like you suggest, haha.



No, you are throwing in the "Jahoda uses this stuff too !!" argument, to seduce people into trying this for you, while you can watch from your relaxing chair, without any risks or costs how it works out. You tell people lies in the hope they will try it for you.

* So f'm what if Jahoda has more than one reason for not using growth factors. I know Gardner said that but I didn't feel like typing out all of his reasons. It doesn't matter what all the reasons are - the point is that they don't want to use growth factors so they will use the fat cells instead. That was his point.

* No you have got it wrong, as usual, since the reason why I don't recall if Gardner said that Jahoda will try to figure out the signaling is because even if he did say it, it doesn't make any difference since the point is that Jahoda is going to use the cells instead of the growth factors produced by the cells. So it doesn't make any difference if he said that Jahoda will figure out the growth factors involved in hair loss since he isn't going to use the growth factors specifically anyway.

* I stand by my statement that it IS a waste of time for Jahoda to go through the exercise of finding out which growth factors prompt hair growth since he isn't going to use the growth factors themselves anyway. I could understand him wanting to map-out all the growth factors involved in hair growth if he wanted to add only those specific growth factors to his mix to prompt hair growth, but since he's going to add the cells that produce those growth factors instead his exercise to map-out the correct growth factors is needless. If he wants to waste his time mapping those growth factors out then he can do so for all I care, but after he goes through the exercise of mapping out the growth factor that prompt hair growth he still isn't going to use only those specific growth factors to grow hair. Instead he will simply add the cells that produce those growth factors and let those cells do the job of adding those growth factors into the mix for him. If he does map all of that growth factor activity out then he'll be examining specific growth factor activity in the micro-sense even though he has no intention of using that information for a practical purpose, and even though there's already a macro-sense way to get the correct growth factors into the mix without figuring out what growth factors are needed.

* So now you are speculating that there are other things in the adipose tissue besides these cells that prompt hair growth even though the Yale scientists said that this one group of cells (adipose precursor cells) is sufficient to activate hair growth. Maybe you should call Yale and tell them how wrong they are and how you have new information for them that other parts of fat tissue besides those cells are also required to prompt hair growth. What a laugh. You're an idiot. You are incapable of transposing information from one context to another. Here read this moron:

http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(11)00817-8

It says that these cells are sufficient to activate the hair growth process, fool. That means nothing else is requred. Go away!

[nameless]

although i totally agree with you arashi about jarjar and his nonsense, i have to say, we shouldn't discard the idea about the fat cells and growth factors yet. indeed, i think the whole growth factor stuff has big potential if used correctly. it's like histogen with the difference that it could be used today. histogen on the other hand probably will never be released because of incompentence and missing funds.

so whatever jarjar investigates and tries to set up in terms of fat stem cells i appreciate it.

On the one hand you say you agree with me and then on the other hand you say that what I'm saying is nonsense. What a laugh!

Since the only positions I've taken is that adipose derived stem cells and their growth factors (AAPE) can reverse hair loss, and since you yourself say you agree with me on these issues, then it makes absolutely no sense for you to say that the things I'm saying are nonsense. Either you agree with me or you don't.

I think that the thing with you is that you cow tow to Arishi but you know I'm right so you say that you agree with me but you also soften that by saying what I'm saying is nonsense. What a laugh.

You need to make up your mind son. You sound like a PMS female who doesn't know what she thinks.

[joachim]

although i totally agree with you arashi about jarjar and his nonsense, i have to say, we shouldn't discard the idea about the fat cells and growth factors yet. indeed, i think the whole growth factor stuff has big potential if used correctly. it's like histogen with the difference that it could be used today. histogen on the other hand probably will never be released because of incompentence and missing funds.

so whatever jarjar investigates and tries to set up in terms of fat stem cells i appreciate it.

[Arashi]

I didn't scare Dr. Gardner away. After careful analysis I determined that you and your dud bud ssudsurfin (sp) scared him away. He got tired of ssudsurfin's lengthy posts and your constant mistakes.

LOL. Just quote ONE mistake from me ! I've quoted several post of you in which you showed you didn't understand what you were talking about in that thread, that your questions where silly at best and that you insulted Dr Gardner. And instead of promising to better your life, you now start to make up accusations out of thin air. I was thinking about asking dr Gardner to come back next year after the conference but I now realize it's useless cause you won't better your life and you will fire 10 stupid questions in a row at him again, some of course with insults where you tell him how to do his job. So he'll be gone in notime and I'd be left feeling ashamed I even asked him to come here.

[Arashi]

hgs you have to remember that this is the same Arishi who first said that the 2014 hair loss congress researchers solved the trichogenicity problem and now says he never said that, and accused

How many times did you tell that lie now ? I've stopped counting, most be a dozen times. And EVERY SINGLE TIME I ask you for the quote in which I supposedly would have said that, you just don't respond.

[Arashi]

* Gardner said Jahoda will add fat cells rather than growth factors themselves in his efforts to grow hair.

You just keep on confusing things !! Dr Gardner said that there are several inherent problems with growth factors, like steep production costs, difficulties to produce and short half life. Therefore, he concludes, it would make more sense to try to induce the scalp to secrete growth factors as an alternative to injecting them directly. He never said anything about effectiveness, just that adding growth factors themselves doesn't make sense to him. See: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post174467

* I don't recall seeing where Gardner said that Jahoda will try to figure out the signaling between fat cells and follicles.

That's because you were too busy firing stupid questions at him. If you would have read his ANSWERS you would have realized that his research has NOTHING to do with those injections you are interested in. He even posted a link to Jahoda's work on fat cells. I'm sure you haven't read it. https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post174908

please provide a link to the post where Gardner said Jahoda is going to try to figure out the signaling between fat cells and follicles.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0059811

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16284&p=174908&viewfull=1#post174908

Myself, I see no point for Jahoda to waste time figuring out these signals

LOL, yeah you know everything so much better than Jahoda. I'm still waiting for your first paper, that should be interesting, LOL But of course his research is VERY important because as you can read in his paper, it turns out fat cells (not just those stem cells or growth factors you are interested in, but really the WHOLE adipose LAYER) turn out to play a role in follicle development.

* Lab grown follicles don't start out as fully formed follicles. If they started out as fully formed follicles you wouldn't have researchers trying to create follicles. They start out as cells and then they form into follicles. And they also start out smaller and get bigger as part of their formation.

LOL, nice story bro. But you miss the point of course, as usual. Jahoda is interested in restoring inductivity, not in creating 'larger' follicles like you suggest, haha.

If I said Jahoda would "inject" the ADSCs into his mix I meant to say "add" ADSCs. No biggie. You're making a big deal of nothing. Obviously I was comparing Jahoda adding ADSCs to his mix and us injecting these cells into our scalps so I used the word "inject" where I meant to say "add" because I was thinking about both ends of that equation at the same time and I inadvertently transposed the word "inject" for the word "add." I can't believe you would actually make a big deal of this. I guess you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for my grammar errors because you're feeling pissy about me pointing out how you proclaimed that the 2014 hair loss congress researchers solved the trichogenicity problem and how you accused needhairasap of being in cahoots with the Pilox folks. LOL!

No, you are throwing in the "Jahoda uses this stuff too !!" argument, to seduce people into trying this for you, while you can watch from your relaxing chair, without any risks or costs how it works out. You tell people lies in the hope they will try it for you.

[nameless]

Wow. You really never cease to amaze me jarjar. You compress so much nonsense into your sentences that someone should give you an award for it. I am not even sure where to start ... You seem to confuse jahodas idea about adding fat cells to his experiments with the idea of injecting stem cells. And really, 'enlarge follicles', haha, what makes you think jahoda wants bigger follicles ?

Adsc really have pretty much nothing to do with jahodas research. He is trying to figure out signaling between fat cells and follicles

I'm not confusing anything. Jahoda adding ADSC to his cell mixes to create laboratory follicles is the same as the Swiss company adding ADSCs to our scalps to grow follicles in our scalps. In both cases ADSCs are being added to grow follicles. And of course when follicles are grown in labs, enlargement is part of that process, so of course follicles are being enlarged in the lab process of growing follicles. They start out as cells and from that they form and grow into (hopefully) full follicles. And of course when Gardner talks about adding fat he is talking about ADSCs because ADSCs are the cells that Yale said were the correct cells. In the mouse world they're called "adipose precursor cells and in the human world they're called adipose derived stem cells. They equate. And adipose precursor cells are the cells that emit the signals to prompt follicle growth. Check this out:

http://news.yale.edu/2011/09/01/yale-scientists-find-stem-cells-tell-hair-its-time-grow

"Adipose precursor cells"

[nameless]

I never said I would stop arguing with jarjar. As long as he posts bs that can hurt people I will correct him. I just said I didn't want to argue anymore about off topic posts about how he scared Dr Aaron Gardner away.

Jarjar has a history of trying to push people to do experimental unproven treatments so he can watch from his chair how others take risks for him and put their money on the line to see if it works. But if he does that with posting lies, like he does here, he needs to be corrected.

I didn't scare Dr. Gardner away. After careful analysis I determined that you and your dud bud ssudsurfin (sp) scared him away. He got tired of ssudsurfin's lengthy posts and your constant mistakes. And he didn't even see your silly-@ss accusation post that needhairasap is in cahoots with the Pilox marketers to cheat bald people. LOL! I think that if he saw your post about the 2014 hair loss congress researchers solving all of the trichogencity issues he would probably want to know what you're talking about.

And if you're going to correct mistakes will you start by correcting your own mistakes? Will you admit that it was a silly and paranoid mistake for you to accuse needhairasap of being in cahoots with Pilox marketeers to cheat bald guys and will you admit that it was stupid of you "assume" that the 2014 hair loss congress researchers had solved all of the trichogencity problems?