adipose-derived stem cell protein extract

[hgs1989]

The ADSC method which started this thread

actually AAPE is what this thread is about. it is called adipose derived stem cells protein extract. the proteins are the growth factors. yes they are expensive but you don't need too much to trigger a cellular signal. but you need the signal to be continuous hence repeated doses are necessary.

on a different note, check this out guys http://www.skinmedic.com.my/anti-hair-loss-mechanism

looks like the Koreans are already utilizing the power of growth factors for hair. if the products are legit we already have a histogen,

[Swooping]

actually AAPE is what this thread is about. it is called adipose derived stem cells protein extract. the proteins are the growth factors. yes they are expensive but you don't need too much to trigger a cellular signal. but you need the signal to be continuous hence repeated doses are necessary.

on a different note, check this out guys http://www.skinmedic.com.my/anti-hair-loss-mechanism

looks like the Koreans are already utilizing the power of growth factors for hair. if the products are legit we already have a histogen,

These growth factors you are talking about are from e.coli they are nothing new and don't work at all and are already produced in many cosmetic formulations. People have even tried SHH, WNT7A, NOGGIN etc didn't work.

For example a company which offers various growth factors lyophilized and in a cosmetic formulation;

http://www.cosmo-bio.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=makeup_02

But yeah we need this AAPE, it's really the same as histogen only that histogen uses dermal fibroblasts instead of adipose tissue.

[hgs1989]

These growth factors you are talking about are from e.coli they are nothing new and don't work at all. People have even tried SHH, WNT7A, NOGGIN etc didn't work.

For example a company which offers various growth factors lyophilized and in a cosmetic formulation;

http://www.cosmo-bio.com/bbs/board.p...able=makeup_02

explain why Histogen works then. SHH and wnts work. problem is they are carcinogenic. the others I guess are not known to be carcinogenic or not but wnts and SHH are known to be so. curis cancelled there SHH program for hair because of high toxicity levels in mice.
Why wouldn't growth factors work? everything in our body is a result of a cellular signaling. baldness is a result of the cell sensitivity to DHT(which has a receptor on the cell) which will make the cells express TGF beta 1 ( a growth factor) which will make the cells die. of course other stuff genes and sginals are also involve like PGD2. a paper I read by Cotseralis before he mentioned that therapeutic approaches for male pattern baldness could be in inhibiting TGF beta 1 and FGF 5 causes the follcile to go in to catagen phase) and then signal the cells using fgf1 , fgf2, fgf7(kgf). the other growth factors like vegf is important for angiogenesis the result a larger follicle and the larger the follicle the the longer your hair. the list goes on and on. the science behind GF is solid.the problem is we don't know if these GF can cause cancer or not. if you have a tumor you can inhibit vegf to prevent blood vessels from developing and killing it (future treatment approach of cancer) imagine if there is a small tumor and you injected vegf the tumor will develop faster. igf 1 is taken by athletes and it works wonder in muscle growth and injury recovery. in fact it used to be banned as a performance enhancing drug. you can read all over the internet about GF. the next generation of treatments for many genetic diseases will be in cellular signaling. who knows maybe they van even signal viruses to die in the future. it is where the current R&D is heading.I wonder how you came up with the conclusion that they don't work. just because a company cancelled it is program doesn't mean it didn't work. it means it is not feasible to pursue due to financial reasons or unwanted health complications.

[Swooping]

explain why Histogen works then. SHH and wnts work. problem is they are carcinogenic. the others I guess are not known to be carcinogenic or not but wnts and SHH are known to be so. curis cancelled there SHH program for hair because of high toxicity levels in mice.
Why wouldn't growth factors work? everything in our body is a result of a cellular signaling. baldness is a result of the cell sensitivity to DHT(which has a receptor on the cell) which will make the cells express TGF beta 1 ( a growth factor) which will make the cells die. of course other stuff genes and sginals are also involve like PGD2. a paper I read by Cotseralis before he mentioned that therapeutic approaches for male pattern baldness could be in inhibiting TGF beta 1 and FGF 5 causes the follcile to go in to catagen phase) and then signal the cells using fgf1 , fgf2, fgf7(kgf). the other growth factors like vegf is important for angiogenesis the result a larger follicle and the larger the follicle the the longer your hair. the list goes on and on. the science behind GF is solid.the problem is we don't know if these GF can cause cancer or not. if you have a tumor you can inhibit vegf to prevent blood vessels from developing and killing it (future treatment approach of cancer) imagine if there is a small tumor and you injected vegf the tumor will develop faster. igf 1 is taken by athletes and it works wonder in muscle growth and injury recovery. in fact it used to be banned as a performance enhancing drug. you can read all over the internet about GF. the next generation of treatments for many genetic diseases will be in cellular signaling. who knows maybe they van even signal viruses to die in the future. it is where the current R&D is heading.I wonder how you came up with the conclusion that they don't work. just because a company cancelled it is program doesn't mean it didn't work. it means it is not feasible to pursue due to financial reasons or unwanted health complications.

You misunderstood me. You gave a link to a company in korea. As I said they are derived from Escherichia coli and not from human tissue. The ones from Escherichia coli don't work because they supposedly don't undergo the same biological passages. If those from e.coli would work we wouldn't be sitting here mate. Kane even sold them on his webshop.

[hgs1989]

You misunderstood me. You gave a link to a company in korea. As I said they are derived from Escherichia coli and not from human tissue. The ones from Escherichia coli don't work because they supposedly don't undergo the same biological passages. If those from e.coli would work we wouldn't be sitting here mate. Kane even sold them on his webshop.

sorry about that. kinda took me time to write that long reply lol.

[Alias123]

This is the Answer i got from the clinic, What do you think? should i try it out? i dont live far away and could be able to do it within 3 weeks, based on waiting time etc.
And dont just say yes i should do it so that i can act like a test subject, do you actually think its in any way worth spending any money on? is it a process that could actually have some effect?


the hair growth therapy is done by removing some fat from Your body, extracting stemcells, mixing them with specific growth factors and injecting them into the scalp. Therapy is repeated 1 - 2 times, costs are from EUR 5000,--/ treatment, small treatments/refreshing treatments are from EUR 3500,--.

Therapy works satisfyingly on thinning hair on areas not completely depelted of hair follicles. Sessions should be repeated for best results.

Regular consultation fees are based on a regular patient status. We also offer VIP-status on request. Our internationally famous VIP-Firstclass consultations/treatment offers the best available service according to Your individual convenience on any day/time you prefer with nobody else in the waiting room and no waiting time. Fees for VIP consultation from EUR 300,--, fees for VIP treatments on request.

[moleular]

Swooping, recombinant proteins produced through viruses or bacteria do work for therapeutic purposes.
If they didn't, then life science companies wouldn't sell them in their thousands to scientist around the world.
It is these recombinant proteins and growth factors which are used in research to help model real world purposes.
Recombinant Human growth hormone for example is widely sold on the black market for use in bodybuilding.

[moleular]

Alias, it's up to you. If money is no object and then it would be worth a try.

[Swooping]

Swooping, recombinant proteins produced through viruses or bacteria do work for therapeutic purposes.
If they didn't, then life science companies wouldn't sell them in their thousands to scientist around the world.
It is these recombinant proteins and growth factors which are used in research to help model real world purposes.
Recombinant Human growth hormone for example is widely sold on the black market for use in bodybuilding.

I know but trust me on this. This isn't the only forum, there are guys who have done this ages ago including recombinant human wnt7a, SHH, bFGF, KGF, SOD etc, just simply didn't work. Just don't do them you are wasting your money man (e.coli derived ones).

One of the most challenging problems with growth factors and cytokines, or wound-healing peptides, is their stability. Without a stability system, growth factors will fall apart in the bottle or on the skin. Exoskeletons are a breakthrough, but there are other stabilized growth factors on the market. Most growth factors made individually are created by programming Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria. This process can match the amino acids, creating a bioidentical version, but it cannot mimic the three-dimensionality of human cell-derived growth factors. It is this special shape that makes growth factors from stem cells and fibroblasts much more stable and active in the skin.

Think it had to do with this indeed.. will dig it up later

[Swooping]

Swooping, recombinant proteins produced through viruses or bacteria do work for therapeutic purposes.
If they didn't, then life science companies wouldn't sell them in their thousands to scientist around the world.
It is these recombinant proteins and growth factors which are used in research to help model real world purposes.
Recombinant Human growth hormone for example is widely sold on the black market for use in bodybuilding.

Explained pretty well here why they are inferior with links to studies.;

http://www.gvi.com.mx/Skinmedica/Publicacion%20JDD%20sobre%20Factores%20de%20Crecimiento%20Humano%20Mayo%202009.pdf

[moleular]

Granted, that study suggested they are pretty useless in topical treatments, which I can confirm myself too.
Whenever I was referring to GF's though, I meant injection. Although it looks like a topical, the AAPE product I should think probably needs to be injected too.

That aside, maybe another way around this is to go to a lab directly and ask them to culture your own adipose tissue, as that's what the clinic have suggested they would have to do anyway.
I was quoted CHF4000, but bear in mind that it's again only the protein extracts which I am allowed to use under EU law, not the cultured stem cells themselves.

[Swooping]

Granted, that study suggested they are pretty useless in topical treatments, which I can confirm myself too.
Whenever I was referring to GF's though, I meant injection. Although it looks like a topical, the AAPE product I should think probably needs to be injected too.

That aside, maybe another way around this is to go to a lab directly and ask them to culture your own adipose tissue, as that's what the clinic have suggested they would have to do anyway.
I was quoted CHF4000, but bear in mind that it's again only the protein extracts which I am allowed to use under EU law, not the cultured stem cells themselves.

Understand.. Ill try to call prostemics myself today or tommorow. Let's see if we can dig up more information.

[hellouser]

Swooping,

What if you were to use the dermapen that deposited a topical? SAGA has a thread on it, check these out;

http://viya.en.alibaba.com/product/1501145531-212416527/VY_799_derma_roller_electric_roller_massager.html

http://www.novanewface.com/product-3-3-298.html

http://www.dermica.ch/en/products/transversal/automeso.php

http://www.amazon.com/Therapy-Delivery-Tappy-TokTok-Professional/dp/B00CPBY7M4/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

http://www.ubiomed.co.kr/base/eng/product/product_01.php

http://www.adminmed.com/adminpen600

[Kudu]

Swooping,

What if you were to use the dermapen that deposited a topical? SAGA has a thread on it, check these out;

http://viya.en.alibaba.com/product/1501145531-212416527/VY_799_derma_roller_electric_roller_massager.html

http://www.novanewface.com/product-3-3-298.html

http://www.dermica.ch/en/products/transversal/automeso.php

http://www.amazon.com/Therapy-Delivery-Tappy-TokTok-Professional/dp/B00CPBY7M4/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt

http://www.ubiomed.co.kr/base/eng/product/product_01.php

http://www.adminmed.com/adminpen600

I've looked at most of these before trying to figure out a way to deliver CB, I also believe that these would improve a variety of topical treatments. I've been having a difficult time understanding this thread, are growth factors or stem cells used in this treatment? Or both?

[hgs1989]

I've looked at most of these before trying to figure out a way to deliver CB, I also believe that these would improve a variety of topical treatments. I've been having a difficult time understanding this thread, are growth factors or stem cells used in this treatment? Or both?

it is growth factors that are used. they are produced by culturing fat stem cells.