George Cotsarelis and upenn new article today

[hellouser]

Unacceptable to who? Is it unacceptable that man has yet to set foot on Mars? That we don't fully understand dark matter/energy? That there is no cure of dementia? These are all major scientific goals. We all want to see a cure here, but we are not OWED it. A false sense of entitlement and belittling genuine steps along the way achieves nothing.

Unacceptable to all of us.

However, you comparing hair loss to setting foot on mars is ridiculous. What is more of a priority? Seriously? And there is no sense of false entitlement when funds have been put towards the hair loss cure and when scam artists have SCREWED us. We deserve better.

[walrus]

I wouldnt even donate to cancer research. Billions of dollars and uncountable man hours have gone into it with nothing to show for it. Like I said before, it almost seems as if the researchers and taking the funds to sustain themselves with a career.

There is actually a lot to show for it if you look in the right place --- the primary literature. Of course funding sustains their career, how else would they be able to do the work? Though contrary to what you are suggesting, this does not encourage laziness. A good publishing record (I.e. having something to show for it) means they are more likely to be awarded funding in the future --- 'publish or perish'.

[walrus]

Unacceptable to all of us.

However, you comparing hair loss to setting foot on mars is ridiculous. What is more of a priority? Seriously? And there is no sense of false entitlement when funds have been put towards the hair loss cure and when scam artists have SCREWED us. We deserve better.

Overall, and objectively? Investment in space is clearly a higher priority. Though of course, not for us personally.

My point was no one has the right to suggest that the rate of scientific advancement is 'unacceptable', and this is not unique to hair loss or indeed biology.

[lurker77]

I wouldnt even donate to cancer research. Billions of dollars and uncountable man hours have gone into it with nothing to show for it. Like I said before, it almost seems as if the researchers and taking the funds to sustain themselves with a career.

Whose billions? Your billions? I'm willing to bet that you (as well as I, as well as the bulk of these forum members, as well as the vast majority of balding men overall) haven't contributed one red cent to their research. Where do you get off thinking that they "owe" you an instant cure?

You speak as if you expect these researchers should have separate careers as accountants and produce a viable result in their spare time with their own money and equipment.

The lack of results only serves to underscore the difficulty of this problem, not a lack of effort. You should be thankful for every single perceived "failure" reported on, as it means they're learning more and more about the AGA mechanisms and ultimately brings us all closer to a solution.

5 years, 10 years, 100 years, it doesn't matter one bit as far as science is concerned. It'll get done when it gets done, IF it gets done, and you should be grateful anything is getting done at all.

Every day it's a bunch of stupid arguments over a trivial vanity problem which humanity has dealt with since the beginning of time. What makes you or anyone else here special, other than the fact that we happen to live in an age where scientific progress is being made exponentially faster than any other time in history and that we happen to belong in a subset of people who cares too much about their hair?

Not fast enough for you? Go get yourself a bioengineering degree and freely volunteer to help at one of these labs. Otherwise quit whining that things aren't going your way.

[Dan26]

The lack of results only serves to underscore the difficulty of this problem, not a lack of effort..

How do you know this? It's like your saying we should just sit back and accept things the way they are. Perhaps things could be approached/ran more efficiently/effectively...

[Thinning87]

And, in favor of science, someone might even argue that if our society wasn't so concerned with what Kim Kardashian wore yesterday and instead we as a society had different priorities, more money would go into helping these researchers.

But then again the only reason we want more money for research is to find a cure for baldness because we place so much importance on being attractive, which is an indirect byproduct of having priorities similar to the one I mentioned in the previous paragraph

[Thinning87]

There is actually a lot to show for it if you look in the right place --- the primary literature. Of course funding sustains their career, how else would they be able to do the work? Though contrary to what you are suggesting, this does not encourage laziness. A good publishing record (I.e. having something to show for it) means they are more likely to be awarded funding in the future --- 'publish or perish'.

My two roommates do stuff that is 20 times harder and more complex than what I do. They are a PhD and a Post Doc researcher at a leading american university working on new biological sciences. They are smart but the both of them together make less than what I make in a sales-oriented job for a leading tech firm. And they are both older than me. The only thing that keeps them going is the dream to contribute to some kind of breakthrough.

But trust me Hellouser if you go to glassdoor.com and look around at what all these researchers make in a year, you will have to change your mind because it will become clear it is hard for most of them to be living the life with what they make.

[Hicks]

Whose billions? Your billions? I'm willing to bet that you (as well as I, as well as the bulk of these forum members, as well as the vast majority of balding men overall) haven't contributed one red cent to their research. Where do you get off thinking that they "owe" you an instant cure?

You speak as if you expect these researchers should have separate careers as accountants and produce a viable result in their spare time with their own money and equipment.

The lack of results only serves to underscore the difficulty of this problem, not a lack of effort. You should be thankful for every single perceived "failure" reported on, as it means they're learning more and more about the AGA mechanisms and ultimately brings us all closer to a solution.

5 years, 10 years, 100 years, it doesn't matter one bit as far as science is concerned. It'll get done when it gets done, IF it gets done, and you should be grateful anything is getting done at all.

Every day it's a bunch of stupid arguments over a trivial vanity problem which humanity has dealt with since the beginning of time. What makes you or anyone else here special, other than the fact that we happen to live in an age where scientific progress is being made exponentially faster than any other time in history and that we happen to belong in a subset of people who cares too much about their hair?

Not fast enough for you? Go get yourself a bioengineering degree and freely volunteer to help at one of these labs. Otherwise quit whining that things aren't going your way.

Just keep giving.

[burtandernie]

I think we would almost certainly have some new treatment along the lines of RU like a topical AA kind of thing by now if MPB had more money in it. The simple reason most things like CB 03 01 are put through trials for acne first is because both men and women are affected and its much more common. Take into account CB is not regrowing NW 7 back to NW 0 and its not hard to see how much more is in other markets.
Kind of frustrating though when you just want to safely keep your hair without propecia which IMO is a dangerous drug just like basically every other drug in existence not just propecia.

[cichlidfort]

**** me, we're really 20+ years from a viable post-finasteride, post-minox treatment, let alone anything approaching a 'cure'. **** me. No wonder this subforum is tumbleweed-strewn since Nigam was run out of town.

20+ years from a viable post treatment? Gtfo dude.

[cichlidfort]

Whose billions? Your billions? I'm willing to bet that you (as well as I, as well as the bulk of these forum members, as well as the vast majority of balding men overall) haven't contributed one red cent to their research. Where do you get off thinking that they "owe" you an instant cure?

You speak as if you expect these researchers should have separate careers as accountants and produce a viable result in their spare time with their own money and equipment.

The lack of results only serves to underscore the difficulty of this problem, not a lack of effort. You should be thankful for every single perceived "failure" reported on, as it means they're learning more and more about the AGA mechanisms and ultimately brings us all closer to a solution.

5 years, 10 years, 100 years, it doesn't matter one bit as far as science is concerned. It'll get done when it gets done, IF it gets done, and you should be grateful anything is getting done at all.

Every day it's a bunch of stupid arguments over a trivial vanity problem which humanity has dealt with since the beginning of time. What makes you or anyone else here special, other than the fact that we happen to live in an age where scientific progress is being made exponentially faster than any other time in history and that we happen to belong in a subset of people who cares too much about their hair?

Not fast enough for you? Go get yourself a bioengineering degree and freely volunteer to help at one of these labs. Otherwise quit whining that things aren't going your way.

I agree with what you're saying but what I think HELL is getting at isthe time researchers have taken to research this balding disease has been inefficient and a lack of priority. I really don't understand why a major company with lots of funding hops on the research bandwagon to speed things up. Billions of dollars will be INSTANTLY made the second a reliable, proven TREATMENT, not a cure, treatment comes out. I think we can all agree on that we are knocking on a hairloss treatment's door step. In 3-5 years (IMHO) something wil be out there that's better than Fin. But what HELL could be saying is that if the time spent studying this hairloss was efficient with no BSing around a freakin treatment could have already been out right now that would kick hairloss in the mouth. You're right, none of us is owed anything in theory but when you involve $$$ that changes the whole game. You're pretty much saying that the ongoing research is a privilege. Well shit, life is a privilege but that's not the point us "complainers" are making.

[UK_]

Activating pathway could restart hair growth in dormant hair follicles, Penn Study suggests

Manipulation of the Wnt/B-catenin signaling pathway could provide therapeutic targets for hair loss, unwanted hair growth and skin cancer

PHILADELPHIA - A pathway known for its role in regulating adult stem cells has been shown to be important for hair follicle proliferation, but contrary to previous studies, is not required within hair follicle stem cells for their survival, according to researchers with the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. A new study, published in Cell Stem Cell, identifies a molecular pathway that can be activated to prompt hair growth of dormant hair follicles, or blocked to prevent growth of unwanted hair.

The team examined the functions of Wnt proteins, which are small molecular messengers that convey information between cells and activate signaling via the intracellular molecule β-catenin. By disrupting Wnt signaling in an animal model with an inhibitor Dkk1, the team found that hair growth was prevented. However, stem cells were still maintained within the dormant hair follicles. When Dkk1 was removed, the Wnt/β-catenin pathway resumed normal function, the stem cells were activated, and hair growth was restored.

The team also unexpectedly found that the Wnt/β-catenin pathway is normally active in non-hairy regions, such as on the palms of hands, soles of feet and the tongue, as well as between hair follicles on the surface of the skin. This finding is consistent with previous results showing that removing β-catenin prevents growth of skin tumors.

"While more research is needed to improve our understanding of this pathway, our results suggest that therapeutics capable of decreasing levels of Wnt/β-catenin signaling in the skin could potentially be used to block growth of unwanted hair, and/or to treat certain skin tumors. Conversely, if delivered in a limited, safe and controlled way, agents that activate Wnt signaling might be used to promote hair growth in dormant hair follicles in conditions such as male pattern baldness," said senior author Sarah Millar, PhD, professor in the departments of Dermatology and of Cell and Developmental Biology.

Researchers aim to better understand the key components and functions of the Wnt/β-catenin pathway. Important areas of focus for future work will include developing effective means of safely targeting therapeutics to the skin for clinical and cosmetic applications.


Penn Medicine is committed to improving lives and health through a variety of community-based programs and activities. In fiscal year 2012, Penn Medicine provided $827 million to benefit our community.

They already know this, it's just a 'confirmation of findings' study (basically saying: "we havent discovered anything new/made any progress since 2005 so we will just re-confirm some old findings to maintain our public credibility").

The only people that will be excited by this are likely to be newly balding people who are NW1/2 and are just starting to research future treatments, this new generation will enter as we all did, with the belief that their harrowing circumstances will be resolved with 3 - 5 years of medical research.

Just to let you know, I've been on that bandwagon on/off since 1982.

[mmmcoffee]

Yea but its gotta happen eventually, and technology is improving exponentially every year.

We may never ever get a treatment that regrows a full head of hair on a bald scalp, but the first cure will come with a treatment that stops the process, thus curing new sufferers, then after will come hair multiplication, which will cure the baldies. It'll happen eventually, no doubt in my mind, just a question of when.

[Thinning87]

I agree with what you're saying but what I think HELL is getting at isthe time researchers have taken to research this balding disease has been inefficient and a lack of priority. I really don't understand why a major company with lots of funding hops on the research bandwagon to speed things up. Billions of dollars will be INSTANTLY made the second a reliable, proven TREATMENT, not a cure, treatment comes out. I think we can all agree on that we are knocking on a hairloss treatment's door step. In 3-5 years (IMHO) something wil be out there that's better than Fin. But what HELL could be saying is that if the time spent studying this hairloss was efficient with no BSing around a freakin treatment could have already been out right now that would kick hairloss in the mouth. You're right, none of us is owed anything in theory but when you involve $$$ that changes the whole game. You're pretty much saying that the ongoing research is a privilege. Well shit, life is a privilege but that's not the point us "complainers" are making.

There is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning. You're not taking into account the risk associated with making these investments.

Sure there are billions to be made with a more decent treatment. But from a company's perspective, you have to take into account that the payoff associated with the investment must justify the level of risk taken. In other words if they did succeed, they would make billions, but from their perspective the probability of succeeding at creating a viable technology by just throwing money around to "hop on the technology bandwagon" is so low that it makes it mathematically inconvenient to make the investment.

[hellouser]

I agree with what you're saying but what I think HELL is getting at isthe time researchers have taken to research this balding disease has been inefficient and a lack of priority. I really don't understand why a major company with lots of funding hops on the research bandwagon to speed things up. Billions of dollars will be INSTANTLY made the second a reliable, proven TREATMENT, not a cure, treatment comes out. I think we can all agree on that we are knocking on a hairloss treatment's door step. In 3-5 years (IMHO) something wil be out there that's better than Fin. But what HELL could be saying is that if the time spent studying this hairloss was efficient with no BSing around a freakin treatment could have already been out right now that would kick hairloss in the mouth. You're right, none of us is owed anything in theory but when you involve $$$ that changes the whole game. You're pretty much saying that the ongoing research is a privilege. Well shit, life is a privilege but that's not the point us "complainers" are making.

I'm pissed off with their snail paced progress. Decades worth of 'research' and nothing to show for except every 12 months they say they've made 'BREAKTHROUGH'...

Personally, all of their successes mean shit all seeing how we're still losing our hair. Why don't they put their money where their mouth is and give us an actual treatment.