piloxll:new israeli method combines wounding+ zi/cu ions to destroy dht in the scalp

[NeedHairASAP]

I don't have time to be updating you guys with new info, and to be verifying my or pilox's claims.

I dont work for pilox. and I dont work for kiwi.


so unfortunately you guys are going to have to do your own homework here on out.

[BDDFreak]

Where is the proof they started 6 years ago?

I believe the patent was filed 6 eyes ago.

[Kiwi]

The $5M figure is what I was throwing around for the total project... they've given away almost 300 of these things at a 2k+ cost to them, plus hiring a team, plus filing multiple patents (way more expensive than on your link, especially for the number of claims they've filed and the complexity of the invention-- first hand experience with a single patent of less complexity costing $20K and still running), plus some money left over to give them a runway to make it to launch, plus some cash to launch maybe.

add all those investments with the time investment (beginning 6 years ago)

and you've got mounting evidence that this isn't snake oil.

AGAIN, this is all we have to go off of. I think we should stop calling this a scam until we know more. Nobody is calling it the end-all yet, but things look and sound interesting so far.

I doubt that yoram appreciates random anonymous posters coming on here and calling him and his efforts a "obvious scam" with no real basis--- and then the same posters wonder why they've been secretive.

Where is the proof they started 6 years ago?

[BDDFreak]

The $5M figure is what I was throwing around for the total project... they've given away almost 300 of these things at a 2k+ cost to them, plus hiring a team, plus filing multiple patents (way more expensive than on your link, especially for the number of claims they've filed and the complexity of the invention-- first hand experience with a single patent of less complexity costing $20K and still running), plus some money left over to give them a runway to make it to launch, plus some cash to launch maybe.

add all those investments with the time investment (beginning 6 years ago)

and you've got mounting evidence that this isn't snake oil.

AGAIN, this is all we have to go off of. I think we should stop calling this a scam until we know more. Nobody is calling it the end-all yet, but things look and sound interesting so far. Gm

I doubt that yoram appreciates random anonymous posters coming on here and calling him and his efforts a "obvious scam" with no real basis--- and then the same posters wonder why they've been secretive.

Thanks for clearing that up. And I'm by no means claiming this is obvious sake oil. I'm just concerned of the efficacy and the red flags their marketing seems to raise. And do u happen to be part of the forums where Yoram posts? You sure do happen to know a lot about it and I trust you will share the progress as it comes along ? I really hope with the new prototype they have more results with the temporal hair loss. They're prototype 2 seemed to tackle mostly crown and the diffused areas :/

[NeedHairASAP]

Is there a source for that 5 million figure for patenting? I see that figure being thrown around but I never saw that as a reasonable figure. According to this it's no where near as much and I'm inclined to beleive it's more in the ball park of a couple thousand just because I know of individuals with parents who could no way afford to patent anything if it cost a couple mill lmao. I'm mostly asking out of curiosity, I'm not a lawyer so maybe someone can enlighten me.

http://patentfile.org/howmuchdoesitcosttopatentanidea/

The $5M figure is what I was throwing around for the total project... they've given away almost 300 of these things at a 2k+ cost to them, plus hiring a team, plus filing multiple patents (way more expensive than on your link, especially for the number of claims they've filed and the complexity of the invention-- first hand experience with a single patent of less complexity costing $20K and still running), plus some money left over to give them a runway to make it to launch, plus some cash to launch maybe.

add all those investments with the time investment (beginning 6 years ago)

and you've got mounting evidence that this isn't snake oil.

AGAIN, this is all we have to go off of. I think we should stop calling this a scam until we know more. Nobody is calling it the end-all yet, but things look and sound interesting so far.

I doubt that yoram appreciates random anonymous posters coming on here and calling him and his efforts a "obvious scam" with no real basis--- and then the same posters wonder why they've been secretive.

[BDDFreak]

Is there a source for that 5 million figure for patenting? I see that figure being thrown around but I never saw that as a reasonable figure. According to this it's no where near as much and I'm inclined to beleive it's more in the ball park of a couple thousand just because I know of individuals with parents who could no way afford to patent anything if it cost a couple mill lmao. I'm mostly asking out of curiosity, I'm not a lawyer so maybe someone can enlighten me.

http://patentfile.org/howmuchdoesitcosttopatentanidea/

[NeedHairASAP]

Basically it's dermarolling. And PRP. On steroids. At least by the sounds of it.

Fingers crossed.

It's current version doesn't sound much like dermarolling-- but I guess works off of the same principles. There is apparently no wounding happening in the traditional sense.

@Arashi,

Desmond has a good post explaining how it is not uncommon, and really the norm, for (real) researchers to keep their research very private up until it's published-- for both patent reasons, business reasons, and efficacy reasons.

So it's not strange, and maybe even a good sign, that the doctor isn't divulging too much just yet. I say this because it may indicate he is real, and I don't think he's trying to hide it as he has indicated that he will be submitting an article to a peer-reviewed journal shortly (when's the last time a snake oil salesmen did this?)

That being said, the hair salon thing is somewhat strange, but not completely unimaginable.

I just can't imagine these guys spent 5 years and $5M+ patenting and making multiple prototypes (of which are given to trialists for free) all to be running a snake oil sale..... that just seems like a conspiracy theory when considered in the face of all the time and money being invested

Can Snake oil be 120% ruled out as of today? No. But in my mind it seems unlikely it's a snake oil-- at this point, I'm more interested in the efficacy.

[Parsia]

He brought up some very good points, which I brought up too. Regardless of whether they're scammers or not, at least there are several clear red flags here. That whole story of a pilogics representative going to a hairdresser with an album full of result photo's for a product that's still in prototype stage, it just makes no sense. And the sole fact of a researcher joining a forum, that's a red flag by itself in my opinion, and even more so if he doesn't want to talk about how it works, but only about how good the product is.

Of course, it doesn't mean they're not for real, there might actually be something here and I'll refrain from posting criticism on SAGA, where Yoram posts, I'll post it here instead

Of course I also hope it's for real, let that be clear and there's no sign of any fraudulent behaviour at this point at all.

-------------------------------------

Ok , I got what you mean Arashi , yeah I agree the hairdresser idea looks
a little wired , You know what? Since we are really lose our hopes after 12
years which FDA did not approve any product so maybe we want to still keep our hopes high!! But I understand there should be different view points .
I also have read many posts from you before too. Is you're name Arash? Are you persian? just curious man !

[Knockin on NW4]

Basically it's dermarolling. And PRP. On steroids. At least by the sounds of it.

Fingers crossed.

No. And No. it doesnt micro needle anymore. And it is nothing like PRP.

[BDDFreak]

Allright , I read many post about this new treatment and If you ask my opinion I would say hey dude! this is marketing ! this product would be for sale , so they need to keep on marketing ! It doesn't mean they are scam!
If they didn't release all of their pictures it doesn't necessarily mean they want to sell us something which is scam and they want to empty our pockets!
they need to give us some information to encourage us to buy it when it comes to market but in the other hand they also need to keep the secret because they shouldn't allow other companies to steal their idea !! So I think we should be realistic about that.

I'm not exactly saying they are a scam, just that they're marketing ploy has some flaws. And these flaws are easily picked out by those that take a step back and inspect what is on the table with no bias. The clear conclusion is to be a bit cautious, that's all I'm saying. They have accomplished what they set out to do however which is get ppl to talk about their product. If vraf is in on the marketing then him specifically saying he is in no way a representative or spokesperson for pillogics seems sketchy. I'm not exactly buying the whole thing about not sharing info because someone will steal it either. They have patents. It is just weird how histogen and replicel can share their procedures (atleast better than piloxl can) and their products are still a couple years away. If they want ppl to be actually excited they should get a peer reviewed journal published with those same results (which I hear they're working on) but until they do, I recommend everybody stays cautious). With that said if this is the real deal then we'll find out soon enough.

[Kiwi]

He brought up some very good points, which I brought up too. Regardless of whether they're scammers or not, at least there are several clear red flags here. That whole story of a pilogics representative going to a hairdresser with an album full of result photo's for a product that's still in prototype stage, it just makes no sense. And the sole fact of a researcher joining a forum, that's a red flag by itself in my opinion, and even more so if he doesn't want to talk about how it works, but only about how good the product is.

Of course, it doesn't mean they're not for real, there might actually be something here and I'll refrain from posting criticism on SAGA, where Yoram posts, I'll post it here instead

Of course I also hope it's for real, let that be clear and there's no sign of any fraudulent behaviour at this point at all.

Basically it's dermarolling. And PRP. On steroids. At least by the sounds of it.

Fingers crossed.

[Arashi]

Allright , I read many post about this new treatment and If you ask my opinion I would say hey dude! this is marketing ! this product would be for sale , so they need to keep on marketing ! It doesn't mean they are scam!
If they didn't release all of their pictures it doesn't necessarily mean they want to sell us something which is scam and they want to empty our pockets!
they need to give us some information to encourage us to buy it when it comes to market but in the other hand they also need to keep the secret because they shouldn't allow other companies to steal their idea !! So I think we should be realistic about that.

He brought up some very good points, which I brought up too. Regardless of whether they're scammers or not, at least there are several clear red flags here. That whole story of a pilogics representative going to a hairdresser with an album full of result photo's for a product that's still in prototype stage, it just makes no sense. And the sole fact of a researcher joining a forum, that's a red flag by itself in my opinion, and even more so if he doesn't want to talk about how it works, but only about how good the product is.

Of course, it doesn't mean they're not for real, there might actually be something here and I'll refrain from posting criticism on SAGA, where Yoram posts, I'll post it here instead

Of course I also hope it's for real, let that be clear and there's no sign of any fraudulent behaviour at this point at all.

[Parsia]

They're marketing scheme really does make me laugh (mostly cause it's working). As much as I hope this works, there's some red flags that no one can argue is a bit sketchy. For one, the initial hair salon story of how vraf initially got ahold of the result pictures sounds too much like a fairy tale (not saying he's lying, just how it looks like), and when he did share the pictures why'd he not show us all of them right away. Why did he hold off on those recently leaked pictures. Why are the inventors allowing him to slowly leak information and actually giving him info to leak. You'd think a product that was being released in 8 months deserves at least a small press release or some direct acknowledgment from either Technion (if they are actually involved) or the inventors them selves. Slowly having an anonymous poster on hair loss forums to relay information just seems unprofessional. Lastly I find it really odd they would be willing to share when the product will be released but keep other important information in the dark, such as info on clinical trials (weather it even needs it or not). I can't help but be excited but I probably shouldn't be. There isn't even any evidence those trialists in the pictures are a result of piloxll and not some other drug or procedure.

Allright , I read many post about this new treatment and If you ask my opinion I would say hey dude! this is marketing ! this product would be for sale , so they need to keep on marketing ! It doesn't mean they are scam!
If they didn't release all of their pictures it doesn't necessarily mean they want to sell us something which is scam and they want to empty our pockets!
they need to give us some information to encourage us to buy it when it comes to market but in the other hand they also need to keep the secret because they shouldn't allow other companies to steal their idea !! So I think we should be realistic about that.

[KJ1982]

Yoram is publishing in a peer reviewed journal and seems pretty honest. He also is taking the protocol of proving his efficacy very seriously.

I know that this is kinda stating the obvious, but this is what's going to make all the difference so far as I'm concerned.

If these alleged findings are, as you mention, published in a peer reviewed publication and prove to be positive then, well... Where do I sign up?!

I don't suppose that you've any more information as to which journal this may be and when to expect any further developments on this front, NeedHairASAP?

[BDDFreak]

They're marketing scheme really does make me laugh (mostly cause it's working). As much as I hope this works, there's some red flags that no one can argue is a bit sketchy. For one, the initial hair salon story of how vraf initially got ahold of the result pictures sounds too much like a fairy tale (not saying he's lying, just how it looks like), and when he did share the pictures why'd he not show us all of them right away. Why did he hold off on those recently leaked pictures. Why are the inventors allowing him to slowly leak information and actually giving him info to leak. You'd think a product that was being released in 8 months deserves at least a small press release or some direct acknowledgment from either Technion (if they are actually involved) or the inventors them selves. Slowly having an anonymous poster on hair loss forums to relay information just seems unprofessional. Lastly I find it really odd they would be willing to share when the product will be released but keep other important information in the dark, such as info on clinical trials (weather it even needs it or not). I can't help but be excited but I probably shouldn't be. There isn't even any evidence those trialists in the pictures are a result of piloxll and not some other drug or procedure.