piloxll:new israeli method combines wounding+ zi/cu ions to destroy dht in the scalp

[NeedHairASAP]

Well, you have to understand is frustrating that you present some evidence and someone just decides to not even look at it but also dismiss it as irrelevant.

I would not call the russian site "evidence"... nor would I say me or anyone else "dismissed" it.

All I'm saying is he answered the inquires about the website, and it makes sense he's not trying to trash some other thing he's involved with or his student is involved with.

The truth is, sitting around and insinuating the guy is a liar in between his visits to the forum obviously didn't help anyone. Are we really better off now losing our only source of info (and a good source at that; the creator/researcher)?

You say others and I dismiss the evidence, but you're the one dismissing the evidence. The science that Yoram has mentioned has the possibility of working.... have you acknowledged that yet? That's actual evidence. A website affiliation is not evidence of anything really.

The guy is probably working 14 hours days between research, a billion dollar product launch, and teaching. So, believe it or not coming to some online forum full of crazies isn't the first thing on his agenda, dont sit around insinuating and trashing his name in between his forum visits..... would like to google your name and see all these allegations pop up? after just a few months ago you were a normal researcher?

[bigentries]

I've seen it before. Any debate of any kind with bigentries will always end with him saying you are emotionaly attached to whatever you are talking about and that you can't take skepticism. And dare to try and say anything and you are even more and more attached and deluded by blind fate and fear. Theres' just no way around it.

Well, you have to understand is frustrating that you present some evidence and someone just decides to not even look at it but also dismiss it as irrelevant.

But I've had it before, I've also came close to being banned because I spoke against the indomethacin fraud and no one likes to touch that subject in that forum anymore

Take the Nigam skeptics for example, many didn't wanted anyone to doubt him or otherwise he would stop releasing information

[chimera]

I HAVE NO EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO PILOXII.

I've seen it before. Any debate of any kind with bigentries will always end with him saying you are emotionaly attached to whatever you are talking about and that you can't take skepticism. And dare to try and say anything and you are even more and more attached and deluded by blind fate and fear. Theres' just no way around it.

[NeedHairASAP]

You don't worry at all that he is connected to the russian site? Or that he used to prescribe accupuncture in his clinic to treat hair loss?

When did I say I'm not worried at all? I think the answer seems reasonable, and even though I shouldn't, I am posting Yoram's response, as I think he'd appreciate that the talk of a scam stops.


"2. What you call Russian treatments, it is a new method and products line and brand .
Dr.burstein Laboratory asked me to create for him a new treatment method for home use or professional.
This is a private collaboration between the chief chemist and me.
One of my students asked the lab to be the first to use this treatments and I trained him during a trip to Moscow.
The final and commercial version is coming out this days and I am presenting it next month in Germany.
This student decided to make a Russian website and promote dr. Burstein treatments and put my name and photos.
I am checking this issue this days.
I tested the results and I am happy to see fast changes.
This treatment is more oriented for hair clinics or cosmethologist. The first formulation was for women FAGA. After I experimented also for men.
I got 80 % good satisfaction from the 2first months .
This treatment has nothing secret.
The idea was to have active ingredients like copper peptides, powerfull anti inflamatory , anti Dht,sebum regulators .... With good penetration and absorbtion.
Most of product do not penetrate enough or at all.
We decided to creat a scalp peeling to remove dead cells from the epidermis and put the scalp in optimal condition for active ingredients to penetrate the epidermis.
Than we are using the dermapen to "push in "the active ingredients.
The dermapen also create a stimulation and wound healing reaction.
The combination of this 3 make a chain reaction and improve in short time hair thickness, increase and stimulate hair growth.
This is in short .."

[Parsia]

OMG, guys.... please listen.... for the last time:

PILOX AND THE DERMAPEN FOUND ON THE RUSSIAN WEBSITE ARE NOT RELATED WHAT SO EVER

the dermapen is NOT an earlier version of pilox. It's a separate treatment. Yoram has explained it has something to do with one of his students, and im venturing a guess that he doesn't want to pit Pilox vs. this other guys business. Maybe he has a stake in it too. This last bit is a complete guess by me, but what is a fact is: PILOX IS NOT THE PRODUCT FROM THE RUSSIAN SITE

how many times does this need to be said?


Pilox has not needles, at all. It uses ionos-something to shoot zinc ions, copper ions, and maybe something else (we don't know)... below is some info on zinc ions, copper ions, and ionos-whatever in detail....

EVERYONE, PLEASE STOP RAMBLING WITHOUT READING THE THREAD

and stop insinuating the creator is a fraud... we have zero reason to believe that. At this point, the science looks reasonable maybe, the pictures look great--- that is all we have. The hair dresser story is different, but not completely unbelievable. The russian site is kind of weird, but has been explained pretty reasonably--- and to somebody who has been following this discussion-- can be easily seen that it is completely unrelated to pilox.


that being said:

1. ionos-whatever doesn't go systemic, and penetrates the best

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S01 ... ci_arttext

Transdermal iontophoresis (TDI) is a non-invasive technique that uses a lower electric current potential than five volts, with current intensities oscillating between 0.1 and 1 mA/cm2. It has the purpose to facilitate the transfer of ions and substances through the corneal layer of the skin in a controlled fashion.

Among the advantages of the technique, reduced risk infection and the possibility of administering the drug directly to the affected site, thus minimizing its adverse systemic effects, are noteworthy.


2. Zinc blocks DHT, fact. Does zinc block DHT really well when it's shot through an ionos-whatever? Who knows...

"the two most important benefits of zinc to acne patients are its antimicrobial properties and its ability to reduce the production of dihydrotestosterone."

http://www.progressivehealth.com/acne-zinc.htm

3. Copper ions promote growth... but can be toxic... copper+ionosphere? Supposedly it doesn't go systemic.


So, considering the above + the pics we've seen, the evidence is on yoram's side as far as I'm concerned....the jury is not out but it's worth further inspection...WITHOUT CONSTANTLY INSINUATING HE'S A FRAUD OR THAT "YOU HAVE A BAD FEELING" , etc etc

newsflash: Nobody cares about your feelings. We want facts.

------------------

Good post and realistic ! Agreed !

[bigentries]

and stop insinuating the creator is a fraud... we have zero reason to believe that.

You don't worry at all that he is connected to the russian site? Or that he used to prescribe accupuncture in his clinic to treat hair loss?

[NeedHairASAP]

It could be that the pen device on the Russian site is an earlier version of Piloxll.

Maybe the device on the Russian site gave a few results and Piloxll is a newer improved version (with zinc and copper ions) which works even better.

They did say in an earlier post that Piloxll is the 5th version of the product, so maybe they have been on to something successful for a while and have been constantly working to improve the product which they are now ready to release in 2014

OMG, guys.... please listen.... for the last time:

PILOX AND THE DERMAPEN FOUND ON THE RUSSIAN WEBSITE ARE NOT RELATED WHAT SO EVER

the dermapen is NOT an earlier version of pilox. It's a separate treatment. Yoram has explained it has something to do with one of his students, and im venturing a guess that he doesn't want to pit Pilox vs. this other guys business. Maybe he has a stake in it too. This last bit is a complete guess by me, but what is a fact is: PILOX IS NOT THE PRODUCT FROM THE RUSSIAN SITE

how many times does this need to be said?


Pilox has not needles, at all. It uses ionos-something to shoot zinc ions, copper ions, and maybe something else (we don't know)... below is some info on zinc ions, copper ions, and ionos-whatever in detail....

EVERYONE, PLEASE STOP RAMBLING WITHOUT READING THE THREAD

and stop insinuating the creator is a fraud... we have zero reason to believe that. At this point, the science looks reasonable maybe, the pictures look great--- that is all we have. The hair dresser story is different, but not completely unbelievable. The russian site is kind of weird, but has been explained pretty reasonably--- and to somebody who has been following this discussion-- can be easily seen that it is completely unrelated to pilox.


that being said:

1. ionos-whatever doesn't go systemic, and penetrates the best

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S01 ... ci_arttext

Transdermal iontophoresis (TDI) is a non-invasive technique that uses a lower electric current potential than five volts, with current intensities oscillating between 0.1 and 1 mA/cm2. It has the purpose to facilitate the transfer of ions and substances through the corneal layer of the skin in a controlled fashion.

Among the advantages of the technique, reduced risk infection and the possibility of administering the drug directly to the affected site, thus minimizing its adverse systemic effects, are noteworthy.


2. Zinc blocks DHT, fact. Does zinc block DHT really well when it's shot through an ionos-whatever? Who knows...

"the two most important benefits of zinc to acne patients are its antimicrobial properties and its ability to reduce the production of dihydrotestosterone."

http://www.progressivehealth.com/acne-zinc.htm

3. Copper ions promote growth... but can be toxic... copper+ionosphere? Supposedly it doesn't go systemic.


So, considering the above + the pics we've seen, the evidence is on yoram's side as far as I'm concerned....the jury is not out but it's worth further inspection...WITHOUT CONSTANTLY INSINUATING HE'S A FRAUD OR THAT "YOU HAVE A BAD FEELING" , etc etc

newsflash: Nobody cares about your feelings. We want facts.

[Atum]

One can hope.

[GuyFromUK]

It could be that the pen device on the Russian site is an earlier version of Piloxll.

Maybe the device on the Russian site gave a few results and Piloxll is a newer improved version (with zinc and copper ions) which works even better.

They did say in an earlier post that Piloxll is the 5th version of the product, so maybe they have been on to something successful for a while and have been constantly working to improve the product which they are now ready to release in 2014

[strife91]

This also includes what hellouser says, contrary to what he would like you all to believe he is not the authority on anything.

Maybe give it a rest , I wonder how many people hellouser has helped by his ru usage guide alone. It's because of guys like him that these forums are worth checking out

[greatjob!]

Also, take everything everyone says with a fine grain of salt.

This also includes what hellouser says, contrary to what he would like you all to believe he is not the authority on anything.

[doke]

Be careful bro he'll put you on his ignore list....Lol

he will hit you with his handbag hahaha ignor list about time he grew up.

[Julian P]

Also, take everything everyone says with a fine grain of salt.

That's why I asked him off course. But indeed, we'll see when results, be it good or bad ones, will come.

[hellouser]

It looks quite shady indeed, but are you 100% sure it's a scam ? I mean, if these dermarolling studies would be real (and I do believe some forummembers had decent results, despite of other failures), this thing could give some results as well.

So I'm just asking: do you presume it is false, or are you absolutely sure ?

It's a presumption. The sites product is unrelated to the PiloxII device:

russian site = dermapen
piloxII = dermarolling with zinc and copper ions...

Also, take everything everyone says with a fine grain of salt.

Real world results of PiloxII will come eventually.

[Julian P]

This is a very important point. It's well known that the Russian site is a scam.

It looks quite shady indeed, but are you 100% sure it's a scam ? I mean, if these dermarolling studies would be real (and I do believe some forummembers had decent results, despite of other failures), this thing could give some results as well.

So I'm just asking: do you presume it is false, or are you absolutely sure ?