Keratene Alphaactive Retard RESULTS

[ryan555]

And one more:

- you claimed in your response that you had been banned from this forum and that your "legit users" had their posts deleted. According the the BTT forum moderators, you didn't even apply for an account until Friday, but you posted your response on Wednesday. How could this happen? Also, who are your "legit users" who were banned? What are their screen names? Why do you have multiple user accounts on Internet forums to support your products?

[25 going on 65]

I think this topic deserves its own thread. As some of you know, I had my blood drawn before taking anything, with a total DHT reading of 50, on a scale of 30 - 85. After 9 days on KAR twice daily, my DHT is 55.

So basically, the who are selling this garbage claim that 100% of their test subjects had a significant drop in DHT, as did Prohairclinic, though every single legitimate person who has had their DHT tested either had no response or had an increase in DHT. Is this some insane coincidence or are these people just a bunch of lying? I am going with option two. It's very obvious by reading threads online that there are paid marketers posting false testimonials (and very poor ones at that), so this should come as no surprise.

If you're taking this stuff, I would encourage you to throw it away and switch to a real product before any more damage is caused to your hair. If you're planning on ordering it, I'd recommend you not waste your money. And I would be very cautious dealing with any company or doctor who sells any products put out by Keratene.

Case closed.

Thanks for taking the time to get DHT tested.

Sounds like the basics of their explanation (correct me if I am wrong about this) is that the kind of test you got is not accurate for measuring DHT levels. Can I ask you what the unit of measure was?

I ask because I recently got mine measured as ng/dL. The "standard range" was 16-80 I think. And this test showed my DHT levels to be way below the lower end of "standard," which is what you would expect because I use Avodart and finasteride.
So if this is the same kind of test that you had, at least in my case it seems to have reasonable accuracy. Unless it is coincidence

[JulioGP]

My friends,

I was traveling and only now had time to read what goes on here. I will make a brief comment on the points raised about the company Kératene assessment of my comments on the effectiveness of your product.

Firstly, I have no interest in harming or promote any company. I participate in another forum in Brazil with over 7,000 users and that all we do is help each other, it is very disgusting when you use a product that offers some results and after investing time and money, but you do not have the results , you lose precious time that could be invested in something concrete and could have regained his hair, something that once lost, only with surgery.

I agree with the company that maybe I have not followed the protocol that it imposes as "PERFECT" for the test. Laboratories use different tests, but they all have the same goal, measure the amount of DHT. Say that only a certain test results could show that the company claims is something that makes no sense to me.

Any reducer / inhibitor or any other product that combats DHT orally can be easily confirmed by those same tests. Finasteride, dutasteride, saw palmetto, OTHERWISE. Still, the company did not tell me my test "ELISA" the result would not be shown, but there could be an accuracy of only 80% (already consider relevant). But there was no change in the DHT nor nor of my ryan555.

The laboratory that performed the tests is one of the most respected in Brazil, Frischmann Aisengart since 1961 with various units across the country and several certifications. There is nothing to doubt their competence and methodology.

When I bought this product through long conversations with the "CHAT" company, not getting accurate answers from the operation of the product in terms of reducing the DHT without influencing anything in Testosterone. Several members (over 7,000 Forum in Brazil) have raised suspicions that something that would be very difficult to happen, maybe impossible. Okay, even so I decided to do the test. The only thing the staff answered via "chat" is that I did the tests that would verify the reduction of DHT, but in no time I suggested a specific method for this.

Even so, regardless of any method, an accuracy of 80% and not show any variation that's what happened, quite different from when I took finasteride (which gave me side), but there was never a need for a method around specific and that anyone can do, to show some reduction. The reduction is shown in any method, something Kératene claims to be different with your product.

Another thing, why I did not ask for my money back? Products purchased outside of Brazil, usually takes one month to get here, how am I going to ask for the money back in this case? Impossible, not enough time.

If the company is reading my story, I would rather ask for my money back, despite having spent more than 14 days (something obvious means for those who make international purchases) because the product did not work. If the company claims that it was MY case, I do not care, did not work for me. Yes, I would appreciate the return of my money by the company. If Kératene company are following my outrage at the results, why the waited my request about the refund? I got in touch by e-mail claiming that the results were not promised. This return should have been made if I pleaded both by email and by here that the product did not work.

Finally, now anyone who cares about the legitimacy of any new user who use this medication and tell me it worked perfectly, once the company comes here to say something about the legitimacy of my comments. Regrettable.

[ryan555]

Thanks for taking the time to get DHT tested.

Sounds like the basics of their explanation (correct me if I am wrong about this) is that the kind of test you got is not accurate for measuring DHT levels. Can I ask you what the unit of measure was?

I ask because I recently got mine measured as ng/dL. The "standard range" was 16-80 I think. And this test showed my DHT levels to be way below the lower end of "standard," which is what you would expect because I use Avodart and finasteride.
So if this is the same kind of test that you had, at least in my case it seems to have reasonable accuracy. Unless it is coincidence

Mine also used ng/dl, the lab just applies a different reference range. As I noted, this test was highly effective at detecting lower levels of DHT when I was on finasteride. The Keratene people are basing their whole product's relevance on the claim that, even though the test is completely effective for products like finasteride and distasteride, it is 100% ineffective for detecting changes from their product. Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

[JulioGP]

In the instructions in the manual Kératene there is no mention of the need to perform blood tests be mandatory method X or Y so that the result is evident.

I have the solution for the company to try to reverse the situation.

My suggestion would be to moderation select the forum 5 old users who were proposed to test the product and exams (those suggested by the company) after the blood test, and they are not consuming Finasteride / Dutasteride / Saw Palmetto and the company Kératene make available free samples for these users to test the product.

But it has to be with known and respected 5 users on the forum. Gotcha!

[25 going on 65]

Mine also used ng/dl, the lab just applies a different reference range. As I noted, this test was highly effective at detecting lower levels of DHT when I was on finasteride. The Keratene people are basing their whole product's relevance on the claim that, even though the test is completely effective for products like finasteride and distasteride, it is 100% ineffective for detecting changes from their product. Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

This is what I was getting at....If this kind of test is not accurate for quantity of DHT then it would be quite a coincidence that mine is less than 5 on Avo+fin (reference range 16-80), and also that yours was low when you got tested on fin

[HARIRI]

Guys why don't you try to do a LCMS test so then we can judge finally if it really works or not? Anyone has LCMS test available in his country?

[ryan555]

Guys why don't you try to do a LCMS test so then we can judge finally if it really works or not? Anyone has LCMS test available in his country?

I am waiting for them to help elaborate on how to make this happen. I did some research online and found one company who is 200 miles away that will do the test for $700 for EACH blood draw. Needless to say, I am not going to spend $1,400 and drive 800 miles round trip to get another round of tests done. It doesn't matter anyway, they are just using that because its the only argument they can cling on to. The tests we got might be a bit less sensitive than LC-MS, but they are not 100% ineffective, as proven by the multiple tests taken while on REAL DHT blockers by myself, Julio, 25 going on 65., etc. I would bet my house that an LC-MS test will only confirm that this product has no value at all. And I am pretty positive that mine and Julio's endocrinologists are just a tad more informed than the clown they have writing these snide responses.

[JulioGP]

Honestly, to me this argument used by them of "methodology" is absurd. The same methodology is used to measure levels of DHT to the use of finasteride / dutasteride / Saw Palmetto and other proven products on the market.

If this reduction of DHT can not be measured by tests considered standard, is already something suspicious. DHT level is the level of DHT, there is no way to be different.

I did not only 1 but 2 DHT tests. There is no way the company say that there was a failure of accuracy and ryan555 used another methodology.

There was not 1% reduction in DHT with kératene in our cases. I sincerely root for more people to carry out testing, really wish this to happen.

[JJJJrS]

Thank you JulioGP and ryan555 for posting your test results. You'll be sparing a lot of guys the trouble of wasting their money and time with this scam. I think they way they responded says all you need to know about their company and product.

[Jcm800]

The way they responded belittling ryan is not professional at all. It's clear that they're out to cream money from unsuspecting hairloss sufferers. I don't even think more tests need be done, that response alone has revealed their attitude, they've been exposed.

[Ibrium]

Honestly, to me this argument used by them of "methodology" is absurd. The same methodology is used to measure levels of DHT to the use of finasteride / dutasteride / Saw Palmetto and other proven products on the market.

Do you have evidence of this? Do you know which test is used for fin and dut?
And Saw Palmetto isn't proven in the first place.

If this reduction of DHT can not be measured by tests considered standard, is already something suspicious. DHT level is the level of DHT, there is no way to be different.

I'm not taking sides here, but I doubt that many people here have the scientific expertise to make such bold claims. You don't know how the test works. Have you actually researched what you're saying? If the test is seriously lacking specificity, then what Keratene is claiming is true.

I'm not taking sides here until I get more information, but from personal experience, I've gotten a couple of DHT tests that suggested vast increases in DHT - while I was taking Propecia! These results were well above the normal male range. So if my tests were done using the wrong method, that would explain it. Nobody denies that fin lowers DHT, yet it's clear that an inaccurate test can suggest otherwise. (My most recent test had it at a low level again. My dose of fin has, for the most part, been consistent for over a year.)

I don't think it's possible to say whether the product is working or not in a matter of days or weeks. No hair loss product shows results that fast. But let's assume that it really didn't work for you or ryan555 - that gives absolutely no information about whether it would work for anyone else. It doesn't make it a scam, it means that it just doesn't work for everyone, which they openly admit.

I have some concerns about Keratene as well - their attitude seems really unprofessional and worrying at times, which is also something I observed when I e-mailed them with a couple of questions some time ago. That doesn't invalidate their treatment, but it raises some questions. Definitely going to wait and see for a while longer.

[ryan555]

Do you have evidence of this? Do you know which test is used for fin and dut?
And Saw Palmetto isn't proven in the first place.



I'm not taking sides here, but I doubt that many people here have the scientific expertise to make such bold claims. You don't know how the test works. Have you actually researched what you're saying? If the test is seriously lacking specificity, then what Keratene is claiming is true.

I'm not taking sides here until I get more information, but from personal experience, I've gotten a couple of DHT tests that suggested vast increases in DHT - while I was taking Propecia! These results were well above the normal male range. So if my tests were done using the wrong method, that would explain it. Nobody denies that fin lowers DHT, yet it's clear that an inaccurate test can suggest otherwise. (My most recent test had it at a low level again. My dose of fin has, for the most part, been consistent for over a year.)

I don't think it's possible to say whether the product is working or not in a matter of days or weeks. No hair loss product shows results that fast. But let's assume that it really didn't work for you or ryan555 - that gives absolutely no information about whether it would work for anyone else. It doesn't make it a scam, it means that it just doesn't work for everyone, which they openly admit.

I have some concerns about Keratene as well - their attitude seems really unprofessional and worrying at times, which is also something I observed when I e-mailed them with a couple of questions some time ago. That doesn't invalidate their treatment, but it raises some questions. Definitely going to wait and see for a while longer.

- they claim that all their trial patients had dramatic drops in DHT. Go read their report.

- Prohairclinic, which may or may not be the same company, also reported 100% success in lowering DHT after only 7 days of a single pill per day.

- Julio, myself, and at least two other users have published before and after blood tests and all of us had no decrease in DHT.

- Julio and I were both responders to finasteride and showed dramatic drops in DHT using the exact same tests.

Given the above facts, the chances would be astronomically low that they would show universal drops in DHT for all test subjects and that every transparent and established forum user happened to be non-responders, even while being responders to fin. It would also be highly unlikely that the same tests that consistently showed lower DHT levels for us while taking finasteride would suddenly fail to work when taking this product.

Aside from the test results, one can easily do research online and logically see that there is something very wrong. With only a couple of exceptions (ajays, for example), the vast majority of established users who have taken this claim that their hair gets worse on it and they eventually abandon it. For the most part, the only posters who claim positive results come from people who have never posted about anything and then they disappear, or they write many positive (and fake sounding) posts about the product. And then the yahoo who posted the rebuttal on their website straight up lied about being banned on here and admitted that they have multiple "legit users" on these forums who they apparently are in cahoots with. I would LOVE to sit in on a deposition of these people and expose the whole world to how the gray market hair loss industry actually works.

Anyway, I am repeating myself. Let's wait and see if they actually respond to the questions posed to them.

[Ibrium]

I think this may be what they were referring to:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15293886

ELISA is usually used to check for a positive reaction, not for precise measurement.

I highly doubt that Keratene could work anywhere near as well as finasteride. But I think there's still a lot of reasonable doubt about your arguments. And there's such a wide margin of error in the test that the difference between results for each (though I haven't seen the ones for fin for any of the people who have shown them for Keratene) could have come about through random chance as well.

They also warn about a bunch of things that can prevent Keratene from working, I don't know if that could have been an issue for any of the people here who have taken it.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, in case there's potential for Keratene, or perhaps a treatment with a similar approach that can be developed from Keratene down the track, has real potential. It seems mixed at the moment, and I definitely want answers from them, but everyone jumping down everyone else's throats and ignoring each other's arguments isn't the most helpful.

[ryan555]

I think this may be what they were referring to:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15293886

ELISA is usually used to check for a positive reaction, not for precise measurement.

I highly doubt that Keratene could work anywhere near as well as finasteride. But I think there's still a lot of reasonable doubt about your arguments. And there's such a wide margin of error in the test that the difference between results for each (though I haven't seen the ones for fin for any of the people who have shown them for Keratene) could have come about through random chance as well.

They also warn about a bunch of things that can prevent Keratene from working, I don't know if that could have been an issue for any of the people here who have taken it.

I don't want to jump to conclusions, in case there's potential for Keratene, or perhaps a treatment with a similar approach that can be developed from Keratene down the track, has real potential. It seems mixed at the moment, and I definitely want answers from them, but everyone jumping down everyone else's throats and ignoring each other's arguments isn't the most helpful.

Well, as I said, if there is a lab in my area that will run tests using LC-MS for a reasonable cost, I'll do the whole thing again just to put this to bed. Of course, if the results are not to their liking, theyll just come up with some other reason to blame me. But I think the vast majority of people who read this know this product probably doesn't work. If its too good to be true...