Mousseigne, french doctor, on the road of donor regeneration

[caddarik79]

just wanted to let you know, I visited and considered a very nice and reputed belgian doctor, before choosing Gho in the end (the regeneration argument wins everytime)... and I explained him openly later that I chose Dr Gho over him because of that...I told him that really, FUE maestro should work on regeneration, that it has to become the new standard...
So you see, i'm also trying to spread it, to my balding friends (the one who are annoyed with it) and I really insisted and encouraged this doctor to drop the old school HT and to put all his energy and talent in regeneration research and efforts...
Moving hair is NOT a solution...multiplying them is the way.

We need unlimited donor... from that point, you will have different type of patients.... people happy with a mild coverage, people wanting to reach the highest density, people resurrected only with a llittle work on their hair line, people who would do it every 9 months, people who will spread it over years, slowly but surely.

Now, the rest of the cutting edge treatment, Aderans, Histogen etcetc, I have to say, I don't read a lot about it, this "5 years aways" is toooo boring... life dos not wait.

[caddarik79]

Mathieu,


If you read the thread, I started to call you an asshole after your little paragraph on "coke addicted chimp"...
Before that, I was just assuming you would be this sales man and I was not the first to point the extremely expensive tarifs of Mousseigne which led us (maybe to quickly) in a price speculation, voting that it would probably be again, an unfair proposition of help to already unhappy patient (unhappy with their conditions of hair loss sufferers and unhappy with the prices proposed (even by Gho) to fight it).

I think you are right, hair loss community is full of (I would not call them lunatics) anxious people.
And you know as much as I know that this shit (hair loss) can turn into obsession even for the most healthy individual... because of its very presence.
You have to avoid spotlights, wind condition, rain, parties where you can't wear a beanie or a hat blabla...
+ you meet dermatologist who know less than you, pharmacist who sell you shitty treatment, assuring you it's helping and bla and blabla...

So I think Spencer and you on that point, need a bit more of psychology to anticipate and understand why an open thread, will bring many different energies, and you have to cope with it.
And for sure, it's better to deal and dialog in a quiet atmosphere, I agree totally.

If you are the one which I also guessed earlier you were, you are also kind of obsessed and involved in the hair thing, starting from funny doctissimo threads to end up like a communication assistant for Mousseigne or whatever.

I called you "asshole", just because I though you simplified it too much for a smart guy I know you are...it's not that simple and of course, regarding the budget, prices, is a hot spot and a subject that will arrive in a thread....

If you are a diffuse NW6, you know it even better then me, you need far more then 1500 grafts to get an acceptable result...but with 1500 session over 15.000 euros, it's unfeasable.

So, let's come back to peace, I was reactive, but not irrescpectuous, until you gave me that wrong impression...
It's true that we need things to move on in the hair loss treatment because from drugs with side effects or topical that are just a prison sh*tty ritual, we are not there yet.


I know what you do on the french forum you created, it's nice, some very happy customer with various talented HT doctors.
But you know as much as I know, that the only real deal, is Gho and the people who will follow the same way...if Dr Mousseigne goes on the road of regeneration, it's true that it's a great news, the future is unlimited donor, that's the only way a young NW6 like you can recover his real age matching appearance... not with a 6000 maximum transplant, you need to regenerate your donor and to gradually reverse your Norwood to it's normal stage...that's what we all need and want.

I don't care who will bring it to it's best level, I just want it to be available (not for free of course, I'm realistic), but to be available for people who want to have their hair back without being oblige to shut any other project down.

That's why I think, we need the market to be hit by more talented doctors offering regenerated donor...
So yes, it's welcome, yes you are right, we can not communicate with consecutive arguments, I'm not pro-argument...
It's just like I mentioned in another thread, the prices for hair restoration are so unfair compared to any other cosmetic surgery...and makes hair loss look like a prison or a never ending story (and while I'm saying that, I can afford it, but I think about the period when I certainly couldn't).

So you see Mathieu, I'm like you, young, full of knowledges about the subject, still enjoying my life to the fullest (because hair loss can not be the only point of course)....and I 'm very strategic and I even openly talk about the new treatments available to my "real life" friends who are losing hair but are still buying those stupid so called anti-hair loss shampoos with the hope that they will have their hairline back.


I really want to help it, I want it to move on, I ask lots of questions to hasci staffs who always answer.
To me, in 2013, the only option is Gho, maybe Mousseigne will be the second to come, and I hope some others will follow and I hope the technique will evolve and the density possibilities as well and a slight democratisation of the prices while staying costy but not unaffordable for 80% of the suffering people....

So I guess we want the same things, I propose to let the arguments episode behind us, I was not sure who you were... I am like IM, for the moment I only trust Gho....but any other leap in the right direction is more then welcome and still, even if I consider Gho being the only option for now, it has its own negative sides (cannot do bigger sessions, expensive on long term, the 9 months waiting but I did not find them sooo conservative with my hairline for example)

So I guess it's time for you to bring us very documented cases (because you know how meticulous and full of knowledges, people are here, which is a good thing in the end, it gives real value to the forum, and it helps anyone who will make the effort of reading and thinking)

BTW, I kind of knew without being sure that it was you and even addressed you message in french to confirm it... we were even FB friends, I know which black and white beanie guy picture you are, I match it, don't worry.

[Mathieu]

Perhaps should I have stated the following earlier in the discussion: I'm not Dr Mousseigne's employee, I'm not paid, nor commissionned to post here on the forums. I have never been directly associated with his FUE work, although I've had multiple occasions to discuss it with him.
So who is this Mathieu guy? Don't worry, I'm not an impostor either. I collaborate with Dr Mousseigne to build up the project around the FUE-L technique; we share insights, ideas, and plans, because our respective knowledge and networks are complementary. If this project pans out and reaches the commercial phase, then, yes, I'll have a financial interest in it (and not as a mere "consultant" or "assistant").
I should repeat once again that I didn't come here to do business; I registered here because I wanted to share good news and some documentation to back it up. I wasn't planning to get involved in typical forum arguments, nor did I intend to debate pricing.
So, for now, consider me as an insider willing to share exclusive data, and not as some used-car salesman who wants to empty your pockets. That's also why I don't feel like I should put my balls in a drawer, lock them up, and then give you my best corporate smile and stick to political correctness BS, while you're basically trolling me & calling me names (ex: Caddarick79 calling me an "asshole", and pretending that I had used this word myself... which is entirely false. It's funny because Caddarick and I had a few friendly exchanges back in early 2007, discussing trips in South-Eastern Asia among other things, and I doubt he's aware of it now hehe). I'm a 29yo guy with a diffuse NW6 pattern and 2 unsuccessful transplants, so you can be sure I do understand very well MPB's psychological implications on every aspect of life. I'm also the creator and co-admin of the main french-speaking forum dealing with the topic of hairloss... so I also know too well forum folks and I therefore concur 100% with Spencer Kobren when he says that it's "unfortunate" that some guys come off as "total lunatics", who make doctors & researchers shun away from the website. Guess what? Unless a strict moderation policy is applied, every hairloss forum I read, whatever the language & country, does host a bunch of resentful "lunatics" at some point. Same sh*t everywhere, because these forums attract specific types of psychological profiles, often plagued with obsessional, anxious, overly narcissistic, depressive traits. So my "coked-up chimp" comment related to this, and not to anyone in particular on BTT; if you have never attended hysteric scenes and over-the-top reactions on a hair loss board, then you must have landed here just a few hours ago
First let me address the inquiries unrelated to pricing in this topic, and then I'll tackle the thorny issue of MONEY (later on today or tomorrow).

[Winston]

Malicious, false and defamatory content will not be hosted on BTT forums.

In the United States, the right to freedom of speech or freedom of expression is not absolute. It is subject to significant limitations and recognizing these limitations is not censorship. Libel, slander, obscenity copyright violation, revelation of classified information or the incitement of ethnic hatred does not fall within the parameters of protected speech, and again will not be hosted on BTT forums.

The spreading of false rumors also does not fall with these parameters, and will not be hosted on this forum.

Exercising freedom of speech comes with special duties and responsibilities that are subject to certain restrictions in respects to the rights and reputation of others and will not be allowed to be abused on this forum.

[Dees Dab]

You join the forum a month ago and come here to drive doctors away? We have no time here for you at the bald truth talk forum. Go elsewhere with your sarcasm and negativity as you are useless and destructive to this forum. Better yet, spend the time you are wasting trash talking doctors to go make some money and then you will be able to afford a treatment...there's a thought.

If you feel the prices are too high please direct all your concerns and questions to my coked-up chimp rep thank you.

Regards,

[FearTheLoss]

No need for your technique as me and my coked-up chimp have developed a better alternative which we will divulge soon. Ours is much more expensive, 150-200k no scars/dots cure and worth every penny. Currently working on gettng a pic or two up on our new website once we build it properly.

Our pricing is based on this particular HT market's reality and also our love for lots of mansions, yachts, lear jets, and fine automobiles.

You join the forum a month ago and come here to drive doctors away? We have no time here for you at the bald truth talk forum. Go elsewhere with your sarcasm and negativity as you are useless and destructive to this forum. Better yet, spend the time you are wasting trash talking doctors to go make some money and then you will be able to afford a treatment...there's a thought.

[Dees Dab]

When I read forums, and BTT is unfortunately no exception, I often imagine that some users' head is a hollow cavity hosting a screaming, randomly jumping around chimp which is high on coke. I admit that this hysteria is both entertaining and distressing to watch. I also very much doubt it can be stopped with rational & honest arguments.... so I guess I'll just have to cope with it!

Anyway, I notice that the last pages are filled with agressive rants & speculations, fueled mostly by simplistic & demagogic reasonings. Some guys obviously have no grasp of economics, just as much as they ignore this particular HT market's reality.

Give me a few hours and I'll answer in detail to your main concerns. Hopefully it will clear out any misunderstanding for those who, inside their head, have an operative brain instead of a raging coke-addicted chimp.

No need for your technique as me and my coked-up chimp have developed a better alternative which we will divulge soon. Ours is much more expensive, 150-200k no scars/dots cure and worth every penny. Currently working on gettng a pic or two up on our new website once we build it properly.

Our pricing is based on this particular HT market's reality and also our love for lots of mansions, yachts, lear jets, and fine automobiles.

[The Alchemist]

but Mathieu here looked like an asshole, very too easily upset by skeptical or insisting forum members, categorising them very quickly and insulting, that looked lame... far from Gho team professionnalism + why is it so upseting to have people being completely disgusted by huge FUE prices?

Agreed that Mathieu didn't come off too well by referring to critical posters as coke addicted chimps. It was very childish. They're the tactics of someone who has no rebuttal to legitimate criticisms.

But, then again, Gho hasn't been too professional either.

If doctors want to come and post (ie. advertise) in an open discussion forum then they better damn well have the maturity and confidence to hear dissenting opinions and criticism. In an open forum, you have to know that you're going to get the good and the bad. It's just the way it goes. Knowledge levels, motives and sincerity of comments are different for everyone and the comments will reflect that. If you don't like it, set up your own blog and feel free to control the content as much as your heart desires.

[Arashi]

Mathieu, I'm really missing some info regarding this doctor on your website. Where and what did he study ? Did he graduate cum laude ? Did he write any papers ? Things like that I usually want to know before I even consider visiting a doctor. Furthermore, honestly, I think your website is quite bad. No highres examples of patient cases at all, the website is quite ugly as it is and it just lacks all the needed info that would make me even consider visiting your clinic.

If you can show us solid proof of your technique, I'd probably care less, but I'd still highly recommend to redo your website.

[Arashi]

Regarding the pricing scheme, I am very pessimistic about what we will see. Pricing about pretty much everything in France is crap, why this should be any different? Because desperate bald souls wish so?

Pretty much my point. I'm 100% sure he won't set prices according to what some people on these forums want. There's so much wealth in a city like Paris alone, that I'm sure he'll be more expensive than Gho, even if he'd have an inferior technique. But in the bigger picture, it will still be a great development. We need more trustworthy doctors to jump onto this bandwagon.

[Vox]

But sure, now that everything was put on table, it's time to listen and to look peacefully at what Mathieu has to bring.

Regarding the pricing scheme, I am very pessimistic about what we will see. Pricing about pretty much everything in France is crap, why this should be any different? Because desperate bald souls wish so?

The good news would be if this technique is proved to work well on both ends (donor/recipient) and if the doctor is really willing to share the know-how. Then, others will pick it up and there will be some chance for reasonable prices.

[Jasari]

To be frank I hope that a product like Histogen can make treatments such as this obsolete, because essentially it's like taking a knife to a gun fight.

At the end of the day over the course of ones hair loss journey most people will need around 10k grafts which is around $100k & 7 odd years of treatment.

I think Caddarik has a fair point when he mentions prices. The FUE cost at this clinic is huge and you wonder why anyone would pay more money for results they can get elsewhere for a fraction of the price.

In this regard if a clinic is serious about a new treatment they must keep this in mind.

[caddarik79]

he is for sure talented as a hair surgeon, this I won't deny... for the rest, let's see where this all go.

It's just guyz... we are in 2013, paying 30k for just keeping a poor not dense and still thinning head of hair (because the process of losing existing hair will not stop since you started to transplant new hair).

I'm in the situation (and even considering a second HST but very much thinking about the best strategy time/progress/money/new treatment on the horizon), I'm glad Gho and maybe Mousseigne exist, it's better then to be 45 in the 80's or 90's... but being an HST customer (and I can afford), I still find it so unfair that you need so much budget to fight hair loss, and not to have a Tom Cruise dense result but rather a Nicolas Cage situation.
I mean if you do 3* 1500 grafts on a NW5-6, he will not look dense, he will just cover somehow... and yet he will have already spent 30k for that.

Things need to evolve in our favor a bit...

But sure, now that everything was put on table, it's time to listen and to look peacefully at what Mathieu has to bring.

It's cool we might belong to the cure period..I just hope we won't be broke for the sake of having a normal head of hair, that's all.

[didi]

I partly agree with you, sincerely...the fuss came from Mousseigne site and his crazy FUE prices... I think that's a legit reaction.
Now sure you are right, let's see what's next...and I promise I will shut up until price question is coming.

My point was that we should remember that we are the market, so let's not encourage crazyyy prices by being soooo happy about regeneration.
Gho is the reference at this time, also in terms of price (monopole position)...I want it to go a bit down, am not naive, not for free, but a bit more affordable for average NW4 Mr Smith ;-)

As long as he is willing to share his technique Im happy, somebody from Turkey will pick it up and offer it for 3 Euros per graft.

Lets see if it works first

[caddarik79]

I dont understand why so much fuss here lol. Lets just wait and see whats the deal instead of speculating.

I partly agree with you, sincerely...the fuss came from Mousseigne site and his crazy FUE prices... I think that's a legit reaction.
Now sure you are right, let's see what's next...and I promise I will shut up until price question is coming.

My point was that we should remember that we are the market, so let's not encourage crazyyy prices by being soooo happy about regeneration.
Gho is the reference at this time, also in terms of price (monopole position)...I want it to go a bit down, am not naive, not for free, but a bit more affordable for average NW4 Mr Smith ;-)