Fin it to win it

[Zao]

The Nocebo effect is very real and the power of suggestion when it comes to sexual function is very powerful. I have been reading the hair forums for the past 12 years and have only recently come across these type of escalating side effects. 10 years ago nobody was complaining about permanent side effects, lack of sensation in their flacid penis, etc, but now it’s common place to read these complaints. Honestly if I read this stuff before taking Propecia I am sure that I would not have had the great experience that I have had over all of these years. People are being psyched into thinking they have permanent side effects only days after they start taking Propecia. This NEVER was posted about before anywhere until these past few years. I believe that their is a lot of bull shit about Propecia being pushed on these forums and I think there is a hidden agenda here. Abusername could have had a chance to keep his hair, but it has been ruined by people like PropeciaVictim, who actually seemed very happy to hear about abusernam thinking he had side effects..
PropeciaVictim has been terrorizing anyone who thinks about taking Propecia, like PatinetlyWating said.

[PatientlyWaiting]

You were absolutely terrorizing him throughout the whole thread. I'm 100% sure that if you would have never posted here and he would have stayed positive, none of this would have happened. You forced the side effects in his head. I gotta hand it to you though, good job. You and your friends' Propecia smear campaign is working very well.

[PropeciaVictim]

It's really hard to say if abusername really genuinely got sides, with PropeciaVictim in his head from page 1 all the way to the present page. Basically convincing him in to having sides, or at least making him think about sides a lot.

You are in serious denial if you think the internet commentary of a single user are likely to cause fake side effects in a patient.

Notice the contrast - many guys have previously written about how scared they were to take the drug but when they decided to give it a chance they were fine. In contrast, his title was "Fin it to win it" and he was hardly concerned about side effects. While an imperfect experiment, he was psychologically much less likely to develop these side effects, when in reality it is a complete crock that thought patterns can even cause said side effects.

He has not yet come back to comment, but given the fact he had loss of sensation and not just your more common ED, I would not be surprised if he was one of the less fortunate long-term sufferers. More than 50% of the guys that experience side effects see a complete reversion after quitting the drug but they generally do not experience loss of sensation which could indicate a more serious problem like nerve damage.

I am really curious to see how things have been turning out for him.

[PatientlyWaiting]

It's really hard to say if abusername really genuinely got sides, with PropeciaVictim in his head from page 1 all the way to the present page. Basically convincing him in to having sides, or at least making him think about sides a lot.

[PropeciaVictim]

even though this one study was small, it clearly demonstrates the existance of the nocebo effect in the 5ar class of medications.

This is untrue. Men naturally feel very uncomfortable talking about sexual dysfunction directly with anybody. If they had been warned of the possible side effects from the drug before taking it, it is much more likely they would be upfront with their doctors about this problem. This factor is not controlled for in the data you presented.

[the_charger]

There is nothing in the medical literature to suggest a nocebo can cause the numbing of sexual sensation and there is evidence to suggest Propecia can cause nerve dysfunction/damage.

even though this one study was small, it clearly demonstrates the existance of the nocebo effect in the 5ar class of medications. This shows sexual problems like ed and lowering of libido exist at a much higher rate in informed patients versus non informed. Its powerful data even though it was with only 100 or so test subjects.

This was pulled from Dr. Wasserbauer's post a few months back:

[PropeciaVictim]

http://www.mendeley.com/research/the...acebo-effects/

Nor is this study relevant. This experiment shows that the nocebo effect can alter a patients subjective report of a very real painful stimulus. This is very different from the possibility of causing simultaneous inhibition of erectile function and impaired sensation often in combination with the non-subjective and measurable decrease in volume and alteration of consistency in semen.

There is nothing in the medical literature to suggest a nocebo can cause the numbing of sexual sensation and there is evidence to suggest Propecia can cause nerve dysfunction/damage.

[dkayla77]

This presumptuous post is very rude. The nocebo effect cannot account for sharp decrease in tactile sensation. Sure, it may account for general malaise or complaints of nausea or other non-specific problems, but its not going to do something so specific as to reduce neurologic activity in your penis. People with PFS have been tested to show nerve dysfunction, so it is not shocking to hear this kind of claim. I wonder if he has improved in the given time since he hasn't responded.

http://www.mendeley.com/research/the-role-of-learning-in-nocebo-and-placebo-effects/

[PropeciaVictim]

http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/t...bo-effect.html

This presumptuous post is very rude. The nocebo effect cannot account for sharp decrease in tactile sensation. Sure, it may account for general malaise or complaints of nausea or other non-specific problems, but its not going to do something so specific as to reduce neurologic activity in your penis. People with PFS have been tested to show nerve dysfunction, so it is not shocking to hear this kind of claim. I wonder if he has improved in the given time since he hasn't responded.

[dkayla77]

Eh thanks for all the replys here guys, propecia victim is absolutely right please believe me when i say that this is not by any means just mental...

So its been exactly 7 days since discontinuing propecia. Just 2 days ago i was able to final get and maintain a full erection which let me tell you was a happy fricken day indeed!

However, i still have very little sensation in my penis.. i can however slowly feel it coming back just at the tip and kinda working its way down.

I went into this with a level head and a healthy body, and i can say without any shadow of a doubt that this medicine did something to take away all the sensitivity in my penis.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/the-nocebo-effect.html

[PropeciaVictim]

Good to hear you have shown some resilience. Now that an additional 3 days have passed, have you rebounded any more? Obviously, you should be sure to remember this experience and never touch the stuff again. You dodged a bullet, but may not be as lucky next time around. If you look at the Propecia Prescribing Information you will not see a single mention of loss of penile sensitivity.

http://www.propecia.com/propecia/shared/documents/pi.pdf

[abusername]

Eh thanks for all the replys here guys, propecia victim is absolutely right please believe me when i say that this is not by any means just mental...

So its been exactly 7 days since discontinuing propecia. Just 2 days ago i was able to final get and maintain a full erection which let me tell you was a happy fricken day indeed!

However, i still have very little sensation in my penis.. i can however slowly feel it coming back just at the tip and kinda working its way down.

I went into this with a level head and a healthy body, and i can say without any shadow of a doubt that this medicine did something to take away all the sensitivity in my penis.

[PropeciaVictim]

Youve already given up on propecia, convinced yourself you have PFS problems and are posting on propeciahelp after like a week? Im sorry but its painfully obvious that you are just falling victim to your own fears

It is not obvious that he is falling victim to his own fears because it is possible, but very unlikely, to develop permanent side effects within a short time frame. Why don't you wait to see if he fully recovers after a couple of weeks of discontinuing the drug?

At this point his side effects are very tangible (loss of sensation and arousal) but minimal as he seems to still be able to achieve a tangible erection. Fortunately, very few have reported getting significantly worse after discontinuing. There is a good chance he will fully recover and if not, his degree of impact seems pretty manageable compared to some of the other cases.

If you revisit some of his earlier posts, I would say he was even a bit cavalier about the irrelevance or inapplicability of side effects to him so you can be certain he was not as worried as some of the other Propecia customers. Compare his thread title (Fin it to win it) to some of the others - 23 year old terrified to take Propecia and do a simple assessment as to who is more likely to develop psychogenic effects.

[Follicle Death Row]

Dude, you said this yourself!





Youve already given up on propecia, convinced yourself you have PFS problems and are posting on propeciahelp after like a week? Im sorry but its painfully obvious that you are just falling victim to your own fears

That might be a bit harsh. Supposedly it's not unusual to suffer these sides in the first couple of weeks after which things usually revert back to normal while still on finasteride. Happens to many and they continue with it and the side effects subside. I wouldn't recommend taking finasteride myself though. Tried it and wasn't for me. It's not for everyone.

[the_charger]

I saw from your new post on Propeciahelp that your side effects have not yet reversed. Just wanted to point out that you should be more respectful to people, especially since you one day may require their assistance.

"I told you so" is what you really mean, right?