follicept - what's this?

[EXprettyboy]

Everybody, listen up,
When you encounter a problem in life, you face it head on and you do everything you can to fix it. Male Pattern Baldness and our reaction to it is affecting our lives for the worse, so we gotta do something.
So we treat it with what we can at the moment. Next issue, treatments are somewhat ineffective and let's just say Problematic.
So we need to kick it up a gear, we research, we stay in tune with the latest developments and we make gradual changes to our regimens as treatments slowly improve.

My point here is that when you look at this follicept situation objectively, the decision about what to do regardless of any prior studies or evidence, is to proceed with a trial to see if the new topicon technology gets IGF-1 to the follicle and generates growth. Regardless of the chances of success, the decision to proceed is OBVIOUS.

In what universe would you not try? given the circumstances.

now I also want to address Devons morale and the effect the forum may be having on it. He has hinted several times that he is giving it everything he's got, but when he is heavily criticized it gets to him. We need this man at his best and feeling strong and supported, when he's on the phone to suppliers, when dealing with investors etc.

because the engine that is powering prometheon is Devon's heavily taxed nervous system. This engine needs the fuel of the tribal cheer behind it, ultimately so we can make sure we are doing everything we can to deal with our problem.

So Devon, Tune into the voices who are behind you and continue with force in your purpose... ...Tune out the critics, they don't understand what it takes to overcome adversity.

[nameless]

Bingo. Thank you thank you thank you. Dr. Hsu is an incredible human being and a brilliant scientist. If you guys had any idea what he and I have given up to get this business off the ground, you would be shocked. Know that we are in this for the impact. If the money comes, great, but that's not what this is about.

Follicept/Devon, if you guys start to show some success then some of us would like to invest in your company. Is that possible? BTW, that could be how you pay back the people who supported you and punish people who flamed you. You could decline to let the flamers invest while allowing the people who were supportive to invest.

Also, I read in one of the posts that the company feels positive about this treatment mostly because of one Japanese study which supports the treatment concept. Could you please post a link to that study? I would like to see that study if you can post a link please.

[follicept]

http://www.lonza.com/custom-manufact...ommitment.aspx

I don't know but i think they are perfect, they produceincrelex worldwide so their active ingredients are for human use for sure, but it seems expensive
I just want to help somehow, i don't pretend to be an expert or have experience, i just want a trial in about... 2 days? sigh

I wish it was that easy! Reached out to them but haven't heard back yet. They definitely don't just stock IGF-1, but may be able to produce it longer term. Thanks for the connection!

[follicept]

Tears are running over my face. Anyone can easily get recombinant human IGF-1 at very cheap prices nowadays. DNA technology has come a far way it isn't the year 2000 anymore. A simple hollow microneedle array will do for delivery. We'll see who will have the last laugh anyway. I'll await your answer, thanks.

One last question btw and I'll leave you alone and this topic; So you promise to everyone that in the assumption that it doesn't work effectively, you won't launch it to market? Or will you launch it to market anyway before having conclusive evidence that it actually does work?

Wouldn't it be a idea that when you get your first vial(s) of IGF-1 you ship the formulation out to a few users here on the forum to let them asses the effectiveness? For me, and I think for everyone that would be independent testing. Don't worry you don't have to send it to me. Just send it to objective members here like FearTheloss, KO1, BoSoX etc.

Can you elaborate on that?

That's just not true. At least not rIGF-1 for clinical use. And microneedles are incredibly complex, expensive to manufacture, and inconsistent. Hence the reason they aren't widely used for existing drugs. Without conclusive evidence, we will not launch it to market. I have said that a hundred times. And that idea contradicts itself. You cannot have independent testing that will give sufficient evidence by shipping out to a convenience sample all over the country/world and have them self report. With that said, and to answer another question from a later post:

The plan is: have myself and a few others test as a convenience sample. At the same time or shortly thereafter, we start a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial. The most rigorous. We don't plan to have those sketchy trial results that say 60% said they felt like they had more hair. We will compare treatment groups, and use hardware and software that counts hair follicles. We will publish this data in peer-reviewed journals, not just have a marketing study. Even if the results are not published in manuscript yet, but the evidence is convincing based on weekly follow ups, we will release a private batch via indiegogo.

[follicept]

Bla bla bla bla.
Someone who made valid points in here is spreading bullshit.
I bet there are thousands of desperate people all over the world waiting a miracle.
Someone has to protect them.
I also believe that Devon is a nice guy but he is too optimistic about something which hasn't even been tested yet and as a scientist should be more carefull when he refers to something i repeat which hasn't been tested yet.

About which I have been extremely clear, and again will not release until we have tested it.

[follicept]

Well I'll guess I'll give my two cents in this thread.

Its obvious Promethean pharma is legit, anyone who thinks this is a snake oil or some scam should be laughed at and ignored.

With that said I don't believe that IGF-1 is the answer for reasons that Swooping has already stated.

With that said I disagree with Swoopings statement that Promethean should provide samples/trials to run a "forum" trial. Those never work lol itll be a waste of time/money ending in tears and pain haha.

Bottom line is trials will be run by Promethean and if they're successful (which I hope they are, but dont hold out much hope for) then there will be people who purchase the product and validate it further. If it doesnt work it will be atleast a noble try which cant be said for most other "breakthrough" treatments.

Correct. Thank you.

[follicept]

Hi Devon! Maybe you don´t know that yet, but you also have a group of Spanish people behind you since we firmly believe in you. So don´t panic and help us with this please! Regardless of the place where we were borned, you (all!) should be aware of the fact that we are on this together and fortunately for us, this time we aren´t dealing with scammers but a leading scientist and his crew. Don´t forget that... And think about the women!

Ps. You seem a nice guy and we want you to stay strong. Please focus on the job because we want it done as soon as possible.

Big hug from Madrid.

I do know and thank you!! Of course, we are excited about helping women- nothing works well for them!Thanks for the encouragement.

[follicept]

They won't have a problem getting funding in the future unless they intentionally fabricate positive results. There are 3 possibilities:

1. If their new technology is effective that will get them a lot of respect.

2. If their new technology is ineffective and they admit it they will not suffer harm to their reputation.

3. If their technology is ineffective but they fabricate the false idea that the technology is effective then that could hurt them.

As long as they tell the truth then their reputation will be safe. All companies investigate treatment candidates that end up not working. The thing is to just state the facts and no harm will be done. A company only suffers harm to its' reputation when it doesn't tell the truth.

I think that Follicept will likely tell the truth about their hair growth results. They are looking at other treatments for other conditions. They don't want to screw up their rep by reporting false positives.

I kind of trust them to tell the truth. If they report good success with their hair treatment the world will be paying attention to whether or not the treatment lives up to the reported results. Follicept understands this. I think they will tell the truth one way or the other.

This is spot on and accurate. Thank you very much for this. We will absolutely be truthful and upfront. Anything else guarantees failure- if not today, somewhere down the line.

[follicept]

It bothers me a lot that they're doing the study on company staff. I think the study should be done on test subjects with no relation to the company. Imagine if Merk had done its' propecia testing on Merck employees.

That having been said it seems like a big stretch to say that this company (follicept) is going to produce false positive results (scam) so they can make 10K to 15K. It just isn't worth the damage their reputation would suffer. This company has plans to bring other treatment technologies into the marketplace so it needs to protect its' reputation. I think the likelihood is that they will report true results. I also think that there's a chance that the technology might work. The thing is that different delivery methods can cause the active ingredient to hang in the target area longer. When treatments are injected into tissue the active ingredient often dissipates or migrates out of the target area rapidly. If their technology can cause the active ingredient to hang in the target area intact longer than injection can that could make a big difference in the outcome.

The "company staff" is just me. And that's just a convenience sample of one, to stay in touch with you guys. As I told swooping:

The plan is: have myself and a few others test as a convenience sample. At the same time or shortly thereafter, we start a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial. The most rigorous. We don't plan to have those sketchy trial results that say 60% said they felt like they had more hair. We will compare treatment groups, and use hardware and software that counts hair follicles. We will publish this data in peer-reviewed journals, not just have a marketing study. Even if the results are not published in manuscript yet, but the evidence is convincing based on weekly follow ups, we will release a private batch via indiegogo.

[follicept]

I agree that Devon should talk with Histogen to make a topical ****tail or better still
Devon should look at the possibility of putting AAPE into his delivery vehicle. If he could put AAPE into his delivery vehicle then you could get AAPE to your follicles every day in a topical solution and AAPE is already FDA approved.

Possibly in the future. I did reach out to histogen, but both their treatment and AAPE would require FDA testing and take years. Not out of the question, but not the current focus.

[follicept]

O.K. first off, I would like to say that I myself have a masters in molecular and cellular bio, have published research and worked in a lab for a couple years... doing research, in many respects, similar in protocol to the stuff "follicept" is doing... IT MAKES NO SENSE that this would be a scam, not at all. Is it possible that they prematurely think they are onto a breakthrough that may end up being nothing, yes. But they admit the possibility of negative results. Once again, IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, for a reputable laboratory, one not even involved primarily in hair loss science, to come onto a forum and day after day try to manipulate people into buying some snake oil product. I can't believe this thread is 62 pages long and most of the posts have accomplished nothing, but racket back and forth about whether this will work or not. Give it a break. YOU DON'T KNOW THIS WON'T WORK. YOU DON'T KNOW THIS WILL WORK. WAIT AND SEE. As much research as y'all have done, YOU ARE NOT TRAINED SCIENTISTS. One thing I have learned working in the lab, is that in a given protocol, a single microliter off and your results may fail. You don't know specifically what their formulations are and the effect on the cells it will have.

Spot on. Thanks.

[follicept]

Sure, the IGF-1 part of it may have happened in "12 days" but the development of their delivery gel certainly took much longer than that.

Indeed. 5 years. And all I said was that "some current literature indicates that we could see results in as little as 12 days." Far from a promise.

[follicept]

This is not about delivery technologies. Igf1 is not enough for a decent regrowth.
This thread is full of nonsense.

Based on your rigorous research, scientific background, and trials you conducted?

[follicept]

Some people here like to be mr. "Know it All" and be able to say "i told you so" later when something doesn't work. Odds are in their favor because not too many things have worked lately, so they keep chanting their disapproval and doubts just so they can feel high and mighty later. C'mon we know this might not work...we get it. Just calm down and let it take it's course...time will tell.

Thank you Devon for your efforts and determination, and your politeness in sharing the knowledge. Your success will be our dream come true. Here's to hope...

Sure thing. Thanks!

[follicept]

This is how I understand it.
Bald mice treated with insulin don't grow hair.
Bald mice treated with insulin + new vehicle grow hair.
Will it work on humans ? We don't know.
Why new delivery method works better than injection ? We don't know.

Incorrect.

With insulin DID grow hair, which is where this all started. Suspected IGF-1R was responsible.
Tried just IGF-1, worked again.
Works on humans? We don't know.
Delivery method- true we don't know exactly WHY, but we do know THAT it works better than injection. Working on the exact Mechanism of Action with the world expert on skin structure.