follicept - what's this?

[DerekM228]

Swooping reminds me of IronMan lol.... maybe its ironman with a new name lol.

anyway, you do raise a good question, but you present the question in the most annoying douchiest way possible. I am sure the scientist over at Follicept have already thought through what you are talking about.

I presume they're alleviating this issue with similar technology built into their "Heatwave" patch (http://www.prometheonpharma.com/technology/). I'm not saying the solution resides in a "patch," but possibly within some sort of packaging for each daily administration of the IGF-1. Not a doctor or scientist though, couldn't tell ya.

Though I agree with stayhopeful that they've most likely thought about this.

[follicept]

Devon, I never questioned your integrity by the way. I do think you are a honest person. To me you are just a dreamer though that's all. If you have a business degree or are entrepreneurial grounded you should know best of all that results count in the real world not loose talking. You can expect to be ridiculed upon in the until you prove yourself. Your time to prove it now, simple as that.

Now a valid question;

How are you going to cope with the stability of IGF-1? Mecasermin (INCRELEX) is also IGF-1 produced by recombinant DNA technology from e.coli (most likely same thing as you guys will be getting) but must be refrigerated upon and after opening the vials it isn't stable for too long (oxidation etc). I quote;



Mind you that this is a sterile solution with a preservative and specially packed. Please elaborate how you guys are going to cope with this and if you guys are going to do stability tests. Repeated opening with no refrigeration is going to be possibly highly detrimental to the stability of IGF-1.

If you say so. Not sure why I should expect to be ridiculed, and even less sure why you feel you should take it upon yourself. Awaiting a more intelligent response from our science team but this is yet another way that transdermal (at least ours) is better than injection. Our formulation is solid at room temperature, and a gel at skin temperature. The active ingredient is locked in a very stable solid matrix at room temperature. Turns out that the ingredients that help with this aspect have secondary and tertiary properties that are allowing the large molecules across. Also, Follicept will be in single use doses so you are not endangering the overall dose. Stand by for a more detailed answer.

[follicept]

All producers are "scalable". How do you think they make their money, selling small aliquots of product? No, they're in the business of mass production. Finding a supplier is going to be one of the easiest steps they have to go through in the entire process. If it causes them a great deal of difficulty then it doesn't bode well for them bringing this to market, IF it works.

Furthermore, at this point they don't have to worry about being scalable. They first need to worry about having a product that actually grows hair and doesn't have negative cosmetic effects. They don't need a huge supply to conduct a small human trial. So, lets go! Put that stuff on your head and start shooting high def video and lets see what happens. If you demonstrate growth, then it's time to start worrying about scaling up. Until then, you're just putting the cart before the horse. There is no reason follicept shouldn't be able to start putting this on his head in a very short amount of time. Certainly they have product in their lab. And I'm looking through a Sigma catalog right now and IGF is available for purchase.

So wrong in so many ways. Not all are scalable. You are right that we need to make sure it works first and that's why we are frustrated. Plenty of companies make IGF-1, but not for human use- only research/animal use. We don't have any in the lab, or we would have started a long time ago. The only company that makes it for human use has a very limited supply (until their new plant comes online in 2017), and has very strict policies/procedures in place to get a vial of the product. That's what we are having trouble with. We just want 1 vial to test, and then other companies have capability but do not actively produce it. An early indiegogo sale/ other investors would raise funds to start that production at scale.

[follicept]

My god, I don't know how Devon is able to handle responding to more than two or three follow ups. First, not all producers are "scalable". Many, in fact, are not. Second, finding a producer is extremely difficult - you need a company that can offer competitive pricing at scale. These are for profit businesses, not researchers.

And at this point, THEY DO have to worry about scaling. They are trying to go to market in the next few months and it would be disastrous to not be prepared to sell at scale. They aren't trying to be a boutique offering.

Haha it does get tough. Correct on all points.

[follicept]

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. None. Zilch. Nada.

Sorry, but he is very right.

[follicept]

LOL - they're trying to go to market? They don't even know if this will grow a single hair on a head.

We absolutely have to be prepared to. We will not sell anything until we are sure, but we have to be ready. We are proceeding under best case circumstances so we don't get caught unprepared.

[follicept]

Devon, thanks for checking in again and taking the time to respond. I'm sure you have more pressing matters. Please don't think that we are all moaning minnie's here. The majority of us are extremely excited by this and you have a lot of support here on this forum. You shouldn't be ridiculed for trying to help others and succeed at something. You certainly aren't stepping on anyone's toes and your passion and commitment is admirable. I apologise for the barrage of negativity you have received. I'd just like to say thanks for your efforts whether they are successful or not. Most of us are rooting for Follicept and can't wait to see what comes of it.

P.S. Maybe we should send Swoop off to Hawaii sounds like he needs to chill out a bit.

Sure thing, no worried. Much appreciated. Worse things have happened! If I (or anyone successful) lost sleep over people like Swooping, we would never get anything done. Thanks for the support. And no way in hell, I love my home way too much to do that to Hawaii.

[follicept]

I'm chilled as hell brah. I know this is going to fail. Worked as a clairvoyant. I'll take bets from everyone with 1:2 odds (with an escrow) that this isn't going to outperform minoxidil, to make this even more amusing. Open to any proposal, come on guys. Anyway hope Devon doesn't disregard my stability question. Having ordered cytokines & growth factors myself I know that they ain't that stable. They come shipped in cold ice and as lyophilized powder ready for reconstitution.

I was actually thinking more like a bet where if it works, you never get to use it... Detailed answer coming.

[follicept]

Hi Devon,

Just 2 questions, apols if you already answered before:

-assuming it all goes to plan, when would this product be available for those in the EU ?

-have you discussed this product at all with Spencer Kobren? There will be many who will be less sceptic if he vouches for this product (or at least your sincerity).

Cheers.

p.s. +1 for coming on the forums like you do. It's rare.

Not sure yet for EU- looking into regulations and logistics. Hopefully not long after US, but don't have enough info yet to make a promise I can't keep.

I emailed Spencer Kobren several weeks ago and said hey, just want to put us on your radar- won't ask for anything until we have some results. Haven't heard from him but assume he's aware. Will reach out again when we have results. Happy to help.

[follicept]

It's easy to get funding. Just take extremely good before and after video / pictures and if it can be proven to work, make a first batch and go on kickstarter and start selling or just asking for contributions.

In my opinion, success or fail at least it's another gain of knowledge in what works and what doesn't. MPB is a finite puzzle is it not?

Anyway I don't think Follicept is intending to scam us because... well I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't destroy my reputation for a few thousand bucks....even tens of thousands. cheers

Exactly. Always have to think long term.

[stayhopeful]

If you say so. Not sure why I should expect to be ridiculed, and even less sure why you feel you should take it upon yourself. Awaiting a more intelligent response from our science team but this is yet another way that transdermal (at least ours) is better than injection. Our formulation is solid at room temperature, and a gel at skin temperature. The active ingredient is locked in a very stable solid matrix at room temperature. Turns out that the ingredients that help with this aspect have secondary and tertiary properties that are allowing the large molecules across. Also, Follicept will be in single use doses so you are not endangering the overall dose. Stand by for a more detailed answer.

Swooping you've just been entirely owned.... when are you gonna give it a rest? sorry to break the news, but you are not a doctor or a scientist or a psychic bro... so stop pretending like one

[Stocione]

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. None. Zilch. Nada.

Except that I do. Whatever bro, believe what you want. Continue to think that biomedical start ups are a walk in the park. Keep believing fund raising is easy as pie. And by all means, go on thinking that finding a producer for a compound for human use should take a brief internet search, no business considerations and a phone call or two.

For realists in the world, setting up a supply chain is HARD. Don't let dumbasses convince you otherwise.

The funny thing is that I'm not terribly excited by IGF-1 as a hair treatment. I just can't stand watching you idiots bash a company that is doing exactly what other biomedical start ups do.

[Keki]

http://www.lonza.com/custom-manufacturing/capabilities-overview/our-commitment.aspx

I don't know but i think they are perfect, they produceincrelex worldwide so their active ingredients are for human use for sure, but it seems expensive
I just want to help somehow, i don't pretend to be an expert or have experience, i just want a trial in about... 2 days? sigh

[Swooping]

I was actually thinking more like a bet where if it works, you never get to use it... Detailed answer coming.

Tears are running over my face. Anyone can easily get recombinant human IGF-1 at very cheap prices nowadays. DNA technology has come a far way it isn't the year 2000 anymore. A simple hollow microneedle array will do for delivery. We'll see who will have the last laugh anyway. I'll await your answer, thanks.

One last question btw and I'll leave you alone and this topic; So you promise to everyone that in the assumption that it doesn't work effectively, you won't launch it to market? Or will you launch it to market anyway before having conclusive evidence that it actually does work?

Wouldn't it be a idea that when you get your first vial(s) of IGF-1 you ship the formulation out to a few users here on the forum to let them asses the effectiveness? For me, and I think for everyone that would be independent testing. Don't worry you don't have to send it to me. Just send it to objective members here like FearTheloss, KO1, BoSoX etc.

Can you elaborate on that?

[stayhopeful]

http://www.lonza.com/custom-manufact...ommitment.aspx

I don't know but i think they are perfect, they produceincrelex worldwide so their active ingredients are for human use for sure, but it seems expensive
I just want to help somehow, i don't pretend to be an expert or have experience, i just want a trial in about... 2 days? sigh

I feel your pain and eagerness Keki... I need something like NOW.... but we have to just trust in Devon and the team when they say they are just as eager as us. Like Devon said, it could be any day now that the trial commences and Devon starts a journal of his personal use too. Any day now!!!