Hair loss gene to aggressive for big 3?

[Tracy C]

I know the feeling. The advice is keep going with medications, but I know as much as you do how much more difficult that is in theory than practice.

It is very difficult to ride out the shed. I've been there and done that, through three separate sheds. Each and every time, my hair grew back thicker than it was before. The shedding does eventually stop. Treating hereditary hair loss is a painfully slow process.

[Kirby_]

What worries me most is that I've stopped shedding ages ago, end of February, and it's nearly 6 months since then with no positive signs.

[25 going on 65]

What worries me most is that I've stopped shedding ages ago, end of February, and it's nearly 6 months since then with no positive signs.

So you've basically been static since March? Since then you haven't noticed excess hairs coming out every day and the top of your head hasn't visibly changed?
Also sorry if you've already mentioned this, but have you asked any doctors about the state of your hair and if anything besides MPB might be happening?

[Kirby_]

So you've basically been static since March? Since then you haven't noticed excess hairs coming out every day and the top of your head hasn't visibly changed?

Yes. I looked terrible in March, April, but was relaxed as I thought, don't worry, this is the result of a shed, it'll be over soon. (That why my posts were much more positive back then.) I don't see shed hairs on my pillow or in the bath tub any more, I did when on my shedding phase, when I saw loads.

Also sorry if you've already mentioned this, but have you asked any doctors about the state of your hair and if anything besides MPB might be happening?

Not yet... I'm reliant on what I get on the NHS, and anything 'cosmetic' isn't covered. But there may be something. No idea what though! I need suggestions for what it could be before I see a GP. (Otherwise they'll say you're going bald, that's that, case closed.) At the moment, unless I get suggestions for avenues of investigation for what might be wrong, I'm just going to chalk it up to Propecia causing hyperandrocity or whatever that is called.

What's causing it? No idea. I was checked out for iron levels recently, those were fine. I use a Seretide (Advair) inhaler and use Lorazepam occasionally. There must be a reason why I lost such quantities of hair but have regrown any months later.

[25 going on 65]

Yes. I looked terrible in March, April, but was relaxed as I thought, don't worry, this is the result of a shed, it'll be over soon. (That why my posts were much more positive back then.) I don't see shed hairs on my pillow or in the bath tub any more, I did when on my shedding phase, when I saw loads.


Not yet... I'm reliant on what I get on the NHS, and anything 'cosmetic' isn't covered. But there may be something. No idea what though! I need suggestions for what it could be before I see a GP. (Otherwise they'll say you're going bald, that's that, case closed.) At the moment, unless I get suggestions for avenues of investigation for what might be wrong, I'm just going to chalk it up to Propecia causing hyperandrocity or whatever that is called.

What's causing it? No idea. I was checked out for iron levels recently, those were fine. I use a Seretide (Advair) inhaler and use Lorazepam occasionally. There must be a reason why I lost such quantities of hair but have regrown any months later.

Ok. Well the end of shedding is a good sign. The Alopecia article on wiki has a bunch of possible non-MPB causes for hair loss, which you could bring up with a doctor. Some of them:
Telogen effluvium (from stress), alopecia areata (autoimmune disorder), radiation exposure (I know, this doesn't likely apply to you), scalp infections, hyperthyroidism (I have experienced this personally), malnutrition (not necessarily iron deficiency), vitamin A excess, and fungi.
If I were you I'd check out the article, which also lists some things to look for when you inspect your scalp.

I have read that the average telogen phase for hair follicles is 3 months, but quite a few anecdotes I've seen seem to suggest that it can be considerably longer than this in some men, and I'm also not sure whether or not med sheds affect the length of time your hair is in resting phase. However I know some people report taking a year or longer just to return to baseline on fin or dut.

Good luck man, I am truly hoping to see a success story here. It would be good to maintain what you have now (you would have gotten there eventually with or without meds) but of course it would be much better to regrow what you lost.
One other thing I can think of is that ketoconazole and especially minoxidil may help with regrowth. I don't usually feel comfortable recommending light laser therapy but some people say they've seen noticeable improvement with it also.

[Kirby_]

Ok. Well the end of shedding is a good sign. The Alopecia article on wiki has a bunch of possible non-MPB causes for hair loss, which you could bring up with a doctor. Some of them:
Telogen effluvium (from stress), alopecia areata (autoimmune disorder), radiation exposure (I know, this doesn't likely apply to you), scalp infections, hyperthyroidism (I have experienced this personally), malnutrition (not necessarily iron deficiency), vitamin A excess, and fungi.
If I were you I'd check out the article, which also lists some things to look for when you inspect your scalp.

I'll check that article out tomorrow... Past 3am and should try again to get to sleep (anxiety from hairloss has ruined my life since January). All of those sounds possible, although radiation exposure is unlikely, and the "other" alopecias don't (AFAIK) explain how the hairloss is patterned. I'll investigate the info online then see my GP.

(I did mention this on HLH, incidentally, but I've found some old photos of myself from August 2009 where my crown looks almost as ragged and see-through as it does now. But later photos show its looked quite a bit better/more solid later on, the following year. Hard to work that out, as I would've noticed MPB much earlier if it had been that obvious so far back. I'm convinced there's a secondary factor along with some very slow MPB. How I go about proving either way, I currently have no idea.)

I have read that the average telogen phase for hair follicles is 3 months, but quite a few anecdotes I've seen seem to suggest that it can be considerably longer than this in some men, and I'm also not sure whether or not med sheds affect the length of time your hair is in resting phase. However I know some people report taking a year or longer just to return to baseline on fin or dut.

I hope, if there is no secondary factor, that I just having drawn out telogen phases. I genuinely wasn't stressed about the shed loss when it happened earlier on, as I though, this will be back by June/July...

One other thing I can think of is that ketoconazole and especially minoxidil may help with regrowth. I don't usually feel comfortable recommending light laser therapy but some people say they've seen noticeable improvement with it also.

I use the keto shampoo (Nizoral), started it before Propecia as it doesn't require a prescription. Caused me a very painful, fiery scalp to begin with, but that hasn't been the case for quite a while. Minox I didn't want to touch when I started Propecia, as basically my hair was 'good enough' beforehand so that minox wasn't needed, and wanted to see how far fin got me. (Before I started Propecia, I was worried about sexual side effects and being denied a prescription, the hair side of things didn't concern me that much then.)

[25 going on 65]

You might even want to see a hair loss specialist about all this since other doctors (even dermatologists) can be surprisingly ignorant about hair loss. I think the only UK doc recommended by the IAHRS is Farjo. But a GP is a fine place to start if money is a concern.
That's interesting you noticed years-old photos of your crown looking thinner. Could be other factors at work besides MPB. But I also know a lot of things can make your hair look thicker or thinner in places, such as lighting, style, cleanliness, the angle of viewing, etc.
I'm guessing you use the 1% keto shampoo? 2% may be mildly more effective if you're interested in trying it. But it requires a prescription in USA so maybe it does in the UK too. Either way just don't overuse it, no more than once a week for 2%.

[Harris]

The one thing I always see is people denying shedding, this is why I find it hard to be positive qualified doctors like the one from the "balding blog" actually says "Shedding is rare and very unlikely after 6 months" he also says that "your hair shouldn't look worse after six months of Propecia" ---William R. Rassman

why would a qualified expert in this field say this and then people on here say its normal? Im not doubting anyone's opinion and am very grateful for everyone that has replied but just very confused

[25 going on 65]

The one thing I always see is people denying shedding, this is why I find it hard to be positive qualified doctors like the one from the "balding blog" actually says "Shedding is rare and very unlikely after 6 months" he also says that "your hair shouldn't look worse after six months of Propecia" ---William R. Rassman

why would a qualified expert in this field say this and then people on here say its normal? Im not doubting anyone's opinion and am very grateful for everyone that has replied but just very confused

If I'm not mistaken Merck also suggests a similar time frame (6 months) but anecdotally it seems to be nonsense in many or most cases. Honestly quitting due to lack of improvement after 6 months is shooting oneself in the foot.
A number of Rassman's opinions are controversial on hair loss forums. I'm not knocking him or his credentials, but on this I have to disagree with him from what I've been reading for the last couple of years

[Harris]

yes I can see that but its not due to no improvement my hair is 3 times worse than it was I have diffuse thinning and the last two weeks my hair has just been falling and thinning hopefully it will grow back thicker and stronger in the next few months and these sheds happen during the first couple of years, I can see the logic in that

[25 going on 65]

yes I can see that but its not due to no improvement my hair is 3 times worse than it was I have diffuse thinning and the last two weeks my hair has just been falling and thinning hopefully it will grow back thicker and stronger in the next few months and these sheds happen during the first couple of years, I can see the logic in that

Well I'm hoping to not have to go through cyclical sheds forever (besides seasonal ones) but at this point I'm kind of resigned to it being a part of treating MPB with fin, at least for some guys like myself.
btw, like Kirby, you might consider seeing a doctor about other possible causes for your shedding, for peace of mind if nothing else. Sorry if you've already discussed that and I missed it.

[Kirby_]

You might even want to see a hair loss specialist about all this since other doctors (even dermatologists) can be surprisingly ignorant about hair loss. I think the only UK doc recommended by the IAHRS is Farjo. But a GP is a fine place to start if money is a concern.

I hope so, as seeing a private specialist would be out of my price range! I just wish I could see a dermatologist on the NHS, and if so without the 18+ month wait. Was just VERY worried when I browsed The Farjo website and it said "Finasteride’s action only begins to ‘kick-in’ at 3-4 months, while results should begin to be apparent after around 6 months." It's not, I'm actually balder than ever could have imagined!

I'm guessing you use the 1% keto shampoo? 2% may be mildly more effective if you're interested in trying it. But it requires a prescription in USA so maybe it does in the UK too. Either way just don't overuse it, no more than once a week for 2%.

2% shampoo, yes, I don't think the 1% type is still available. It is potent stuff, yes, I remember my first shampoo with Niz was an ordeal!

Exactly like Harris, I'm majorly concerned about Rassman's claims that sheds don't exist. I read that over 6 months ago, and it's always been at the back of my mind hanging over me.

[notgoingout]

I hope so, as seeing a private specialist would be out of my price range! I just wish I could see a dermatologist on the NHS, and if so without the 18+ month wait. Was just VERY worried when I browsed The Farjo website and it said "Finasteride’s action only begins to ‘kick-in’ at 3-4 months, while results should begin to be apparent after around 6 months." It's not, I'm actually balder than ever could have imagined!


2% shampoo, yes, I don't think the 1% type is still available. It is potent stuff, yes, I remember my first shampoo with Niz was an ordeal!

Exactly like Harris, I'm majorly concerned about Rassman's claims that sheds don't exist. I read that over 6 months ago, and it's always been at the back of my mind hanging over me.

Kirby, you need to ask your GP to refer you to the Dermatolgy Department at St Thomas Hospital in London. There's a consultant dermatoligist there that is probably the leading authority on the UK on this stuff, a chap called Dr Fenton. You may need to do some serious arm-twisting to get a GP referral but it will be worth it. You can also see him privately; I think he practices in Harley Street. Even if you have to go private it would be money well spent. Can't promise it will solve everything but it's your best chance of getting a first class medical opinion about what's going on with you, which treatments are appropriate and what you can expect from them.

Good luck buddy!

[Kirby_]

Kirby, you need to ask your GP to refer you to the Dermatolgy Department at St Thomas Hospital in London. There's a consultant dermatoligist there that is probably the leading authority on the UK on this stuff, a chap called Dr Fenton. You may need to do some serious arm-twisting to get a GP referral but it will be worth it. You can also see him privately; I think he practices in Harley Street. Even if you have to go private it would be money well spent. Can't promise it will solve everything but it's your best chance of getting a first class medical opinion about what's going on with you, which treatments are appropriate and what you can expect from them.

Good luck buddy!

I'd like to do that but I probably have no means of affording private treatment, let alone the high cost of travelling all the way to London! I'm at an absolute loss, no chance of getting a referral via the NHS(distance from London, will just get told, you're going bald, shave your head you're thirty), I want this to be something other than MPB but I'm 99% sure it's just very aggressive MPB causing my sudden heavy balding. Is there any way I can get "clearance" over other issues without private treatment in distant London? I wish I would die in my sleep every single night, I can't stand looking at myself in yhe mirror heavily balding because of these shitty worthless tablets

[Harris]

Try not to feel like that stay with the tablets and hopefully there may be some improvement around the corner. If you cant hold off ur hairloss for 3ish more years theres a good chance things like histrogen will be available. do what ever you can to hide it in the meantime keep going with tablets and maybe get some toppik. Do you buzz your hair? I buzz mine to 0 and it takes your mind of the balding and actually gives you the impression that you arnt balding at all for a few days this may reduce the stress a bit and help you and people around you get used to what might become, or maybe buzz to a 3 and get some toppik I have never used it but I here it can save people 2 years of there hair looking ok. At least we have hope with future treatments just a waiting game until they are available