Do Or Die (Literally)

[ronin77]

hey dgman

Therapists are bullshit..Xanax will help deal with the anxiety. The moving to Thailand idea isn't bad...The western society women are way too judgemental about looks. Online dating,bars,etc...they will definitely not pick the bald guy...I was at a comedy club with only 2 bald guys there and they made bald jokes yesterday...NOT FUNNY!!!I need to make a goal like you said Ronin and move there.
Is the phillipines really the way to go?? Any other countries?Ideas people?? I agree a cure should have been found by now too but society is making way way way too much money on so called hair regrowth surgeries and products!!!!

phillipines, thailand, vietnam, cambodia, laos and to some extent china and japan. Western society treats us bald guys as jokes, especially the women, i have 2 younger sisters that dont sugar coat shit and i asked them straight up about bald guys and they said not hot at all, but in the asian countries its certainly different. I believe some bald guys look fine but they are usually tall slim and have darker skin my problem is im white as hell and the sun glares off my head but the asian women care more about manners, job security, dress sense, family values, loyalty etc. i dont know any women from the other contries i mentioned but i imagine they are the same as thai women. infact in my experience going out to thai only discos ie. off the tourist track, if you have good manners and dress nicely (this is most important) you will have girls falling over you, more so than if you had cool hair but were wearing singlet and thongs. there is a huge misconception over thai girls being all sluts and bar girls, simply not true, if you venture off the tourist track you will find out what i mean. their culture revolves around a strong family as there is no social security/welfare in thailand so if you dont work you die and when you get old (no pension no superanuation either) if you dont have family to look after you, you die. so thai women hold a mans integrity and the above things i mentioned alot higher than having hair on the head. THE HIGHLIGHT OF MY THAI EXPERIENCE SO FAR: walking into a mens clothing store in northern thailand at the age of 31 (bald and no hat) and having to 2 beautiful 22-4 year something old thai girls giggling and gossiping in thai about me being cute and very white haha and then giggling about asking my phone number lol (not realising i can speak thai) and not once mentioning my bald head, i had fun standing there and listening haha WHAT I HATE MOST ABOUT BEING BALD is not recieving attention from woman, call me whatever you want but thats the truth. i would love to know what other people hate most about going bald is. but i have found a part of the world where im the tall handsome white guy and not just that bald guy, and in 2 years time im there for good.

[dgman21]

Therapists are bullshit..Xanax will help deal with the anxiety. The moving to Thailand idea isn't bad...The western society women are way too judgemental about looks. Online dating,bars,etc...they will definitely not pick the bald guy...I was at a comedy club with only 2 bald guys there and they made bald jokes yesterday...NOT FUNNY!!!I need to make a goal like you said Ronin and move there.
Is the phillipines really the way to go?? Any other countries?Ideas people?? I agree a cure should have been found by now too but society is making way way way too much money on so called hair regrowth surgeries and products!!!!

[DAVE52]

Now having said all that i can offer advice to the guy considering killing himself because i have also been there, first thing you need to do is buy some clippers and buzz it off because mate if your going bald your going bald none of these crap treatments everyone is talking about work, ive tried them all. and the faster you face that fact and accept reality the better..

Best advice i've read on here

I wish I could have done that 10 yrs ago but ............

Now I'm starting to see a psychotherapist ( my Company pays for it so what have I got to lose ) maybe he can find out why I am so hung up my hair loss

[ronin77]

going bald is devastating, but you still can get pleasure from life

FACE REALITY this forum isnt for guys to mull over new treatments, its for guys to vent their anger and frustration, why? Because their aint no treatment for hair loss we all know it we are just in lala land spending hard earned money on crap treatments that dont work in the hope it will grow us some hair so we dont look like freaks, oh and for the guys who promote the miracle cure just around the corner give it a break that miracle cure has been just around the corner now ever since i started going bald, its crap, i mean think about it anyway why would they cure baldness when these companies have all us freaks running around paying top dollar for their bullshit product, what you can clone a pig, grow an ear on a mouse but not hair on a head what a load of crap. Freaks: The time at my brothers wedding when it took the (oh so funny) camera man 30 minutes to find a filter for his camera so the glare from my bald head wouldnt ruin the otherwise perfect picture. Or that hot high school girl friend when i was 19 and she was 16 it was love and was way to short got seperated by circumstance but we knew it wasnt over and we would continue it later until of course she saw i was GOING BALD. i was 20 when i started going bald and am now 33. Baldness has ruined my self esteem and confidence, im not an idiot i can see the way women have changed in their reactions to me say at a bar or something, if i approach them, over the years as i have become more bald, or seeing old girl friends again etc. Sure i have a nice body and an ok face and i can get women if they are 100kg, or white trash with 4 kids and looking for a daddy.
Now having said all that i can offer advice to the guy considering killing himself because i have also been there, first thing you need to do is buy some clippers and buzz it off because mate if your going bald your going bald none of these crap treatments everyone is talking about work, ive tried them all. and the faster you face that fact and accept reality the better. then you have to ask yourself whats your main problem with going bald. for me it was easy WOMEN, 100% of women will take the guy with hair if the guys are equal in every other aspect. Hell i have lost a woman to guy with no job no teeth and he was abusive but hey he did have one of those wicked beckham style mow hawk hair style. getting crap from mates about my baldness doesnt worry me i learned very quick to fire back something personal ie. weight problem, cheating gf, slutty mum whatever it took haha my mates soon stopped teasing me about it. So as you can see i didnt take going bald easily and yes i had thoughts of killing myself many times before but you shouldnt go posting it on forums all you will achieve is people trying to wrap you in cotton wool. How will i live my life with baldness you ask? i have found that being bald in an asian country isnt nearly as bad as in a western, especially if you are a white westerner. most asian women in for instance thailand are more interested in man who can provide security, is not abusive, is a family man, does not cheat these attributes are far more important to a thai girl then being bald. I know this for a fact i have been to thailand many times i have had a thai gf before, i can speak basic thai conversation and lived there for 4 months at one stage. And no thai girls are not all prostitutes %90 of them are hard working family girls working long hours in offices and factories to support their families. im 33 now and am finishing up renovating my house to sell it now i will then gather together some more money over the next 2 years and then move to thailand to live when im 35 meet a nice beautiful 25 year old thai girl get married have kids and live happily ever after, hopefully lol. You see mate going bald doesnt have to be it for you just give it some time think about what you want in life and get back to me i think i can help you.

[Fixed by 35]

All people want to do for me is TALK !!!

Yeah, I get annoyed by this too. Women talk, men do. We don't want to chat about problems, we want to spend our time seeking solutions. The search for an effective treatment is what keeps me going.

[mlao]

mlao - First let me say how sorry I am to hear you and your Wife are unable to have children and the fact you have suffered with depression for such a long time. This is the first time in my 33 years of been on this earth I have ever had my confidence knocked or felt like my world is falling apart simply because of hair loss !!!

My two Boys are a gift. My ex and me both gave them the gift of life and they will make the most of it whether I am here or not.

I do live in the Uk, about 120 miles from Manchester. I have looked at DR Farjo's results but feel his before and after results are not that jaw dropping. Especially compared to the likes of Hasson & Wong in Canada, plus transplants dont work for everybody. DR Farjo also charges quite alot for a face to face consultation if I remember rightly? Surely a consulration should be free?

Thanks for trying to give me some hope in the propecia results pics, as you state, these are exceptions to the rule and most of the pics simply look as though the persons hair has grown out a bit longer as appose to any real re-growth?

I dont hold any hope of a miracle cure around the corner. Proof will be in the pudding. One thing I have learnt about the hair loss industry is that many companies claim to have the next big thing to combat hair loss in over priced medications just to make a few million pounds off many desperate men.

One the subject of my kids, I dont live with them, nor do I go to work with them for 10 hours a day, nor will they ever want to live with me as they build lives for themselves. I suppose you could call me selfish but as I said before, I cannot live a saden life just for the sake of my kids.

Thanks again mlao

Footymad - I'm not suggesting that you go to Dr. Farjo for a transplant but for his expertise in hair loss. I think if he can help by providing a proper diagnoses the fee is worth it. He might not give the answer you want but at least it is his field of expertise.

Believe it or not even the best restoration surgeons would rather see a person go the route of medications first.

How severe is your loss did it just start recently, is it diffuse or recession?

Those pictures on Bernstein's site are not just people who have grown their hair longer they are amazing results!!! I will agree that none of the pictures have brought the patients back to their 16 year old hair but the after shots are impressive.

As for your doubt regarding a miracle cure we all know it won't happen overnight. But the possibilities of something like Acell (listen to the information Spencer has provided) has even gotten the most conservative surgeons excited. When Dr. Rassman and Bernstein say they are working with it that is a clear indication that it has potential.

I don't know what you mean by companies promising the next big thing if you mean shampoos or magic non FDA approved snake oil I agree but Histogen, Aderans, Allergen, and Cosmo all have products in clinical or pre-clinical trial. Acell is already FDA approved!

I truly believe that you will not have to live a saddened life forever because companies working on a cure are a lot closer then we all think. I agree it's not fast enough for us but it is going to happen.

[Footymad]

Footymad
I think you should consult a competent hair doctor. I am assuming that you live in the UK. I don't know how far you are from Manchester but there is a doctor named Bessam Farjo who is a renowned hair restoration surgeon and he would be able to perform a complete examination on your hair to give you a better idea about your condition.
As far as a cure coming sooner rather then later we all feel the same way you do or we wouldn't be on this forum. Just this past week the hair restoration community became very excited about Acell which is a possible therapy that seems to produce more hair. At least five of the top hair doctors in the US are starting to explore its use for hair restoration. Even offering it in their practice now. And trust me when I say they are a very sceptical bunch. In addition to Acell there are at least 4 other companies working to get newer therapies to market as quickly as they can.
The fact that you have started propecia is good because almost everybody derives some benefit from using it. Most people get good maintenance and some even get re-growth. You should check this link from Dr. Robert Bernstein's site;

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medical-treatment/medications/patient-photos/

they are miracle pictures for sure, but it can happen. You will notice however that the patients were on the drug longer then five weeks.

In closing I just want to say that I try to avoid telling someone who is troubled and angry over their situation how they should deal with it.
As someone who has suffered from depression for 30 years I can tell you that it is only over when you say it's over no amount of therapy, support from loved ones or anti-depressants will help unless you are willing to let them.

I would only give you one piece of advice that may help. In your post you said you have two children who you have a great relationship with. That is a gift.
My wife and I were unable to have children and also couldn't adopt. I suppose it just wasn't meant to be. I love her very much and would not trade a day of the last 24 years I've had with her. Still I am envious of my friends who have kids so please try and see the gift you have in that.

I hope this helps you at least a bit. - mlao

mlao - First let me say how sorry I am to hear you and your Wife are unable to have children and the fact you have suffered with depression for such a long time. This is the first time in my 33 years of been on this earth I have ever had my confidence knocked or felt like my world is falling apart simply because of hair loss !!!

My two Boys are a gift. My ex and me both gave them the gift of life and they will make the most of it whether I am here or not.

I do live in the Uk, about 120 miles from Manchester. I have looked at DR Farjo's results but feel his before and after results are not that jaw dropping. Especially compared to the likes of Hasson & Wong in Canada, plus transplants dont work for everybody. DR Farjo also charges quite alot for a face to face consultation if I remember rightly? Surely a consulration should be free?

Thanks for trying to give me some hope in the propecia results pics, as you state, these are exceptions to the rule and most of the pics simply look as though the persons hair has grown out a bit longer as appose to any real re-growth?

I dont hold any hope of a miracle cure around the corner. Proof will be in the pudding. One thing I have learnt about the hair loss industry is that many companies claim to have the next big thing to combat hair loss in over priced medications just to make a few million pounds off many desperate men.

One the subject of my kids, I dont live with them, nor do I go to work with them for 10 hours a day, nor will they ever want to live with me as they build lives for themselves. I suppose you could call me selfish but as I said before, I cannot live a saden life just for the sake of my kids.

Thanks again mlao

[mlao]

Footymad
I think you should consult a competent hair doctor. I am assuming that you live in the UK. I don't know how far you are from Manchester but there is a doctor named Bessam Farjo who is a renowned hair restoration surgeon and he would be able to perform a complete examination on your hair to give you a better idea about your condition.
As far as a cure coming sooner rather then later we all feel the same way you do or we wouldn't be on this forum. Just this past week the hair restoration community became very excited about Acell which is a possible therapy that seems to produce more hair. At least five of the top hair doctors in the US are starting to explore its use for hair restoration. Even offering it in their practice now. And trust me when I say they are a very sceptical bunch. In addition to Acell there are at least 4 other companies working to get newer therapies to market as quickly as they can.
The fact that you have started propecia is good because almost everybody derives some benefit from using it. Most people get good maintenance and some even get re-growth. You should check this link from Dr. Robert Bernstein's site;

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medical-treatment/medications/patient-photos/

they are miracle pictures for sure, but it can happen. You will notice however that the patients were on the drug longer then five weeks.

In closing I just want to say that I try to avoid telling someone who is troubled and angry over their situation how they should deal with it.
As someone who has suffered from depression for 30 years I can tell you that it is only over when you say it's over no amount of therapy, support from loved ones or anti-depressants will help unless you are willing to let them.

I would only give you one piece of advice that may help. In your post you said you have two children who you have a great relationship with. That is a gift.
My wife and I were unable to have children and also couldn't adopt. I suppose it just wasn't meant to be. I love her very much and would not trade a day of the last 24 years I've had with her. Still I am envious of my friends who have kids so please try and see the gift you have in that.

I hope this helps you at least a bit. - mlao

[Footymad]

Footymad, I strongly encourage you to look into antidepressant medication as soon as possible. Imbalances in neurochemistry are as real, and potentially as dangerous, as many other medical conditions. They can literally force you to feel suicidal and hopeless no matter how you rationalize or philosophize things, no matter what is happening in your life, no matter if you're a NW1 or a NW7.
I have been in a similar position and understand the rollercoaster of intense anguish, numbness, fury, nihilism... when those feelings take 90% of your focus, you can't muster the will to do anything, let alone treat hair loss.
The one really permanent thing in life, is death. There's no coming back from that. So at least try talking to a doctor about meds before you decide to leave two children without a father at their high school or college graduations, and no father at their weddings, and no grandfather for their children.
That would cause as much pain as waiting three years for a hair loss cure, I promise you that.

25 going on 65 - If I were to stay alive now and live with looking like an dork for the rest of my life and turn up at my Son's graduation or weddings feeling and looking like their Grandfather and not their Father. NO THANK YOU.

I will also not be filled full of pills. All people want to do for me is TALK !!!

No good talking, give me my hair back and I would not feel like this. I am also realising that my hair loss appears to be all over my body. My chest hair, eye brows and eye lashes too. What does this mean???

[25 going on 65]

Footymad, I strongly encourage you to look into antidepressant medication as soon as possible. Imbalances in neurochemistry are as real, and potentially as dangerous, as many other medical conditions. They can literally force you to feel suicidal and hopeless no matter how you rationalize or philosophize things, no matter what is happening in your life, no matter if you're a NW1 or a NW7.
I have been in a similar position and understand the rollercoaster of intense anguish, numbness, fury, nihilism... when those feelings take 90% of your focus, you can't muster the will to do anything, let alone treat hair loss.
The one really permanent thing in life, is death. There's no coming back from that. So at least try talking to a doctor about meds before you decide to leave two children without a father at their high school or college graduations, and no father at their weddings, and no grandfather for their children.
That would cause as much pain as waiting three years for a hair loss cure, I promise you that.

[jooder]

Footymad - i think the shaven look does suit me to some extent.....but i have grown used to it i guess. There are many other people on this site that say 'shaved would never suit me'.....only to later shave and it does (weedwacker is finding this out at the moment).
Thanks for your comments, but im nothing remakable.
It really does seem to me that there is a background issue to this whole scenario......and that seems to be your chronic lack of self esteem......and that hairloss seems to be the final straw. I will say again - the only way to get through this and to feel better is to share, share and share. Confide in your family, confide to the professionals and also confide to us here if it helps.
Also, if i had to go into work everyday to be bullied........i would get another job. Maybe less money.....but whats money when you dont have happiness? Whilst you are going through this you certainly dont need others ebbing away at your confidence. So either get another job or in the short term get a sick note for stress - you certainly qualify.
Then with the help of professionals and others you can begin to rebuild your life and confidence and start seing things in a proper and realistic way.

[Footymad]

I am about a norwood 5......which is pretty much completely bald. I have shaved my head with a razor for the last 12 years - i never tried to fight it, just shaved the lot off.
Im 32 years old and live in England. So i think we have a lot in common?
My baldness has never stopped me doing anything in life, i have no problem getting girlfriends and my hair (or lack of) doesnt rule my life one bit. Ideally, everybody would probably like the option of more hair as it gives you more options in life........but its not a big thing to me. To be honest, even if i had more hair, i would still probably shave it.
I work in an all male environment where a lot of piss taking occurs. There is one guy who mentions my baldness, generally only when i have been taking the piss out of him. Ironically, hes a combover type guy who has just recently shaved his head like mine.......so i guess he didnt think it was that funny after all Even with him, i would say that he said something only about once every few weeks......nobody else says anything. To be honest, the people in my workplace who have hair get just as much if not more insults than i ever have.
It sounds to me as though your inadequacy about your hair has become evident for all to see......they know it gets to you so they do it more - the bully mentality.
If somebody rubbed my head and said 'hey up baldy'.....i would pick something their not happy with and respond e.g. rub their stomach and say ' you still pregnant, fat bastard?'......or 'not bad, you bent nosed clown'. Just make sure whatever you say back that it stings them. Believe me, bullies always pick somebody who doesnt answer back. After a few times of you giving tham a taste of their own medicine, they will back off and the jibes will become less and less.
You say your kids wouldnt miss you if you killed yourself. Would you miss your dad if he killed himself??
Dont back yourself into a corner where nobody will miss you and you going is better for everybody. That is NOT TRUE........i myself lost a person close to me when i was very young and it has affected my life and the relationships that i have with people. So if you think you going wouldnt affect anybody, you are kidding yourself.
I have had times in my life when i have felt very down, as though life is not worth living (nothing to do with baldness) and what i have found the most helpfull thing is to share with people what is going on in your head - dont hold back, spill everything, let people help you. You will find that as time progresses things get easy and that you can eventually look back and think 'was that me back then?'.
You may feel that you have lost your family (with the divorce) ... and now youve lost your hair.....so everythings going wrong?
Look at what you HAVE achieved........you have 2 children, you have been married. You have a loving father that cares deeply about you.These are things that some people will never, ever have. So in many ways your life has been a success.
Your going through a hard time at the minute - as are many, many more men around the world........so you are not alone.

Jooder

You seem like a really great bloke and I am really really grateful to you for all your responses. You say that even if you had more hair you would still shave it, this indicates to me that the shaved/bald look suits you? It does not suit me and I have never ever in my life shaved my head. Good for you that you have the courage and the fact you are strong enough to take on the bullies at work. I am not this strong or confident, never have been and never will be.

Thanks again.

[jooder]

Jooder

I have contemplated taking my life for several months now and each time I do, it hurts so much to think of leaving my boys behind but let me ask you this, am I expected to stay alive, live a very very unhappy and miserable live/existence just for the sake of my two boys when I spend 10 hours a day at work with people constantly making comments about me losing my hair and then to only spend 2 short days a week with my boys?

Were is the logic? Spend an eternity at work been ridiculed to spending a minimal amount of time with my Sons, who will no doubt have a replacement father figure in time once my ex-wife finds a new man in her life?

The bigger picture for me is not staying alive living a miserable life just for the sake of my kids who will grow up possibly hating me or simply moving on with their own lives once older enough to do so without a care for their Mother or Father??? Just for the record, I have a superb relationship with both my boys and the bond between me and my eldest is untrue.

Can I ask you a question? Are you completely bald? How old are you and what response do you give to people who mock you about your hair loss? For example if somebody patted you on your head in front of a crowd of colleagues and said loudly " HEY UP THERE BALDY" how would you respond to them?

I am about a norwood 5......which is pretty much completely bald. I have shaved my head with a razor for the last 12 years - i never tried to fight it, just shaved the lot off.
Im 32 years old and live in England. So i think we have a lot in common?
My baldness has never stopped me doing anything in life, i have no problem getting girlfriends and my hair (or lack of) doesnt rule my life one bit. Ideally, everybody would probably like the option of more hair as it gives you more options in life........but its not a big thing to me. To be honest, even if i had more hair, i would still probably shave it.
I work in an all male environment where a lot of piss taking occurs. There is one guy who mentions my baldness, generally only when i have been taking the piss out of him. Ironically, hes a combover type guy who has just recently shaved his head like mine.......so i guess he didnt think it was that funny after all Even with him, i would say that he said something only about once every few weeks......nobody else says anything. To be honest, the people in my workplace who have hair get just as much if not more insults than i ever have.
It sounds to me as though your inadequacy about your hair has become evident for all to see......they know it gets to you so they do it more - the bully mentality.
If somebody rubbed my head and said 'hey up baldy'.....i would pick something their not happy with and respond e.g. rub their stomach and say ' you still pregnant, fat bastard?'......or 'not bad, you bent nosed clown'. Just make sure whatever you say back that it stings them. Believe me, bullies always pick somebody who doesnt answer back. After a few times of you giving tham a taste of their own medicine, they will back off and the jibes will become less and less.
You say your kids wouldnt miss you if you killed yourself. Would you miss your dad if he killed himself??
Dont back yourself into a corner where nobody will miss you and you going is better for everybody. That is NOT TRUE........i myself lost a person close to me when i was very young and it has affected my life and the relationships that i have with people. So if you think you going wouldnt affect anybody, you are kidding yourself.
I have had times in my life when i have felt very down, as though life is not worth living (nothing to do with baldness) and what i have found the most helpfull thing is to share with people what is going on in your head - dont hold back, spill everything, let people help you. You will find that as time progresses things get easy and that you can eventually look back and think 'was that me back then?'.
You may feel that you have lost your family (with the divorce) ... and now youve lost your hair.....so everythings going wrong?
Look at what you HAVE achieved........you have 2 children, you have been married. You have a loving father that cares deeply about you.These are things that some people will never, ever have. So in many ways your life has been a success.
Your going through a hard time at the minute - as are many, many more men around the world........so you are not alone.

[DAVE52]

For example if somebody patted you on your head

Yup
I got that .
Did that ever P*ss me off
Fortunaelty I work in the office of a food processing plant and when ever we have to go into the Plant we must wear a hairnet .
Latelty I just been leaving the hairnet on all day ......it's like s security blanket
F*ck it is sd what this hair loss has done to me
Like yourself something has to give as I cannot continue to live like I have been the last little while .
I';ll end up having a stroke like my mother due to the stress, not sleeping and not eating

[DAVE52]

I understand the feeling but it's good you have someone to talk to
It doesn't appear you are thinking properly right now
I went through I think the same feelings and went to see a shrink , he gave me meds which were suppose to fix the chemical imbalance ( whatever that means )
Been off them for 2 years but I am now starting to get that really downer feeling again ....not being able to sleep properly, .crying , why me etc etc BS

I wish 10 yr ago I had the B*lls to at least try and cut my hair really short then It woudl have been doen and I would have had to live with it
This oen lady friend I confide in tells me I'll get through it .
I don't know how, it's been 10 yrs of hell with the only hope in site is I contnue to lose more hair ..............
I just for the life can't undersatnd why it bothers me soooooooooo much !!!!!

I wish you all the best and try to keep your spirits up