Hair loss on Crown, permanent?

[graymonkey44]

A little background, I'm currently 22 years old.

I took a pretty heavy cycle of Protodrol, a DHT based compound for a workout supplement. I was very cautious about having side effects and took some cycle support supplements like Fish Oils, Multivitamins, Joint supplement, and a life support supplement which contained things like red yeast rice, saw palmetto, milk thistle, hawthorne berries.

I took the Protodrol for 6 weeks and made sure I had a proper PCT lined up which was Tamoxifen Citrate, a SERM. Two weeks into the SERM, my mom noticed that I had same very noticeable thinning on the crown of my scalp. I examined it and it was pretty significant.

I was pretty distraught about it and someone recommended Nioxin system cleaner, so I tried using it for 2 weeks and although I thought it was a good volumizing shampoo, I didn't think it was that great at lowering DHT and regrowth. I just recently purchased Regenepure which contains ketoconazole, which has been proven to inhibit DHT and I feel like it may be making some difference, but it's too early to tell.

I also just purchased some Aziderm's azelaic acid 10% cream and a microderm needle roller and I plan on using this too. I'm just unsure of when to apply and how many times a day. Do I rub it in and leave it or do I have to wash it out after using?

I don't believe I suffer from MPB because my dad is 62 years old and still has a full head of hair. We also have pretty similar hair styles. My hair is a little bit more curly and wavy, while his is just wavy. Also, my mom's grandfather is not bald either. My hair line has not receded either.

I was wondering if it would be all right to temporarily use minoxidil at a low dosage just to help stimulate some growth in the crown and then stop. I hear hair becomes minoxidil dependant after a period of time and I sure don't want that. I would appreciate any input you guys have.

Here's some pictures of it as well. In the one picture my scalp definitely look irritated.

[Tracy C]

You need to stop what you have been doing and talk to a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.

There are only products that are proven to treat hereditary hair loss and are FDA approved for that purpose are Propecia (Finasteride) and Rogaine (Minoxidil). Nioxin and all similar products do absolutely nothing to treat hereditary hair loss.

[graymonkey44]

You need to stop what you have been doing and talk to a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.

There are only products that are proven to treat hereditary hair loss and are FDA approved for that purpose are Propecia (Finasteride) and Rogaine (Minoxidil). Nioxin and all similar products do absolutely nothing to treat hereditary hair loss.

I have stopped taking both things for about 2 weeks now. I realized what I did was stupid. It was pretty much a legal steroid which made my DHT levels go extremely high. I think my DHT levels have lowered, now though, but I'm wondering if the damage I did to the crown is reversible. I am aware that those products are for hereditary hair loss due to the scalp storing the DHT which prevents the hair follicles from getting nutrients and growing healthy.

Minoxidil acts as a vasodilator, among other things, which should stimulate hair growth so I'm wondering if this would help with regrowth on the crown.

[Tracy C]

...so I'm wondering if this would help with regrowth on the crown.

Only time will tell if you did permanent damage by triggering MPB earlier in life than it would have on it's own. If not your hair should grow back on its own, but again this will take a long time.

If you are going to use Minoxidil temporarily, you need to understand more about it and how best to use it. If you know you do not have hereditary hair loss, you would not need to keep using it for life. If you know you do have hereditary hair loss, you will need to keep using it for life. It may best to wait until you know for sure. The best thing for you to do is talk to a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.

[graymonkey44]

Only time will tell if you did permanent damage by triggering MPB earlier in life than it would have on it's own. If not your hair should grow back on its own, but again this will take a long time.

If you are going to use Minoxidil temporarily, you need to understand more about it and how best to use it. If you know you do not have hereditary hair loss, you would not need to keep using it for life. If you know you do have hereditary hair loss, you will need to keep using it for life. It may best to wait until you know for sure. The best thing for you to do is talk to a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.

I don't think going to a doctor is a possibility. I understand that minoxidil does have side effects and that's what I'm worried about. How long exactly would I have to wait to see regrowth? I'm willing to wait as long as I know the hair will regrow. I'm sure that the doctor would tell me the same thing you're telling me anyways.

Also, as far as I'm aware, Ketoconazole does in fact inhibit DHT: there was a study done on it. Also Azelaic acid had a study that said it inhibited DHT as well.

[Tracy C]

How long exactly would I have to wait to see regrowth? I'm willing to wait as long as I know the hair will regrow.

There is no way to know how long for sure but a year is reasonable. There is no way to know if it will regrow at all except just to wait and see. Treating hair loss takes a painfully long time and there is nothing anyone can do to speed it up.

The only medications that are proven and FDA approved to treat hereditary hair loss in males are Propecia (Finasteride) and Rogaine (Minoxidil). There is sufficient evidence to suggest that using Nizoral (Ketoconazole) shampoo once or twice a week can help as an adjunct to proven treatments, especially for women. However, Ketoconazole is not a stand alone treatment. Azelaic acid can do more harm than good, so it's best to stay away from that.

There is no harm in starting to use Nizoral shampoo once a week, as long as you don't over use it. Over using any form of Ketoconazole can cause your hair loss to worsen. It would also be a good idea to replace your regular shampoo and conditioner with sulfate free shampoo and conditioner.

If you insist on trying Minoxidil now, take it slow. Don't jump onto the twice a day dose right away. Taper up slowly over time. When you decide to stop using Minoxidil, do the same thing in reverse. Never stop Minoxidil abruptly. Stopping abruptly can trigger a massive shed that might not recover.

[graymonkey44]

Uh oh. I've been using the regenepure twice a day for about a week now. You suggest I should only use it once a week? Is there any reason why it makes it worse? I'm also curious as to why azelaic acid would cause more harm? There's a lot of minoxidil formulas that include azelaic acid as one of the main ingredients. Thanks again for your input.

[Tracy C]

Uh oh. I've been using the regenepure twice a day for about a week now. You suggest I should only use it once a week?

The makers of Regenepure do not list how much Ketoconazole is actually in their shampoo. No one knows if the amount of Ketoconazole in Regenepure is even enough to do any good. One thing we do know for sure is that it cannot be more than 1%. So just stop using it twice a day and use it only once or twice a week. Regenepure is grossly over priced for what you get. Using it twice a day is quite a waste of money.

For your regular washing, especially if you intend to wash twice a day, switch to sulfate free shampoo and conditioner.

[mpb47]

Be careful of taking hormones as they will speed up MPB you would eventually would have experienced at some point.

Back in March my dr put me on a low dosage of T and shortly afterwords my inactive mpb became active again on crown.

If you stop using, your mbp might stop. Good luck

[graymonkey44]

The makers of Regenepure do not list how much Ketoconazole is actually in their shampoo. No one knows if the amount of Ketoconazole in Regenepure is even enough to do any good. One thing we do know for sure is that it cannot be more than 1%. So just stop using it twice a day and use it only once or twice a week. Regenepure is grossly over priced for what you get. Using it twice a day is quite a waste of money.

For your regular washing, especially if you intend to wash twice a day, switch to sulfate free shampoo and conditioner.

I mean no disrespect, but do you have a link to any of these studies? I would really appreciate knowing why using ketoconazole too much would be detrimental to hair and also why azelaic acid does not help in hair regrowth. Regenepure is a sulfate free shampoo and I think it has some pretty good ingredients like Linolenic acid, Emu Oil, B vitamins and even Saw Palmetto. If it does really contain less than 1% ketoconazole, couldn't that mean I could take it more than once or twice a week compared to Nizoral or something with 2%?

Also, what types or brands of sulfate free shampoos and conditioners would you recommend. Nioxin is supposed to be pretty good, but it does contain SLS. Thanks.

[Tracy C]

...but do you have a link to any of these studies?

Go to the FDA website, look up ketoconazole and azelaic acid and read the side effect information. Hair loss is a possible side effect of ketoconazole. This side effect, lake most others, is more likely to happen when the medication is over used (over dosed). However, when used in just the right dose, ketoconazole has the opposite effect and can be a helpful adjunct to proven treatments for hereditary hair loss. The devil is on the details.

The known side effects of azelaic acid outweigh the possible benefit in regard to treating hair loss. If you are under a doctor's care for your hair loss and the doctor puts you on it, that's one thing. If however you are treating your hair loss completely on your own, that's another thing entirely and you should avoid azelaic acid.

...and also why azelaic acid does not help in hair regrowth.

I did not say azelaic acid does not help. I said azelaic acid can do more harm than good. Refer to the side effect information on this specific medication.

If it (Regenepure) does really contain less than 1% ketoconazole, couldn't that mean I could take it more than once or twice a week compared to Nizoral or something with 2%?

Possibly but the problem is you just don't know how much ketoconazole is in Regenepure. You would be guessing. The only thing you can know for sure is that it legally cannot contain more than 1% ketoconazole because Nizoral still has an active patent on that 1% dosage.

Also, what types or brands of sulfate free shampoos and conditioners would you recommend. Nioxin is supposed to be pretty good, but it does contain SLS. Thanks.

Nioxin is a scam. Like Regenepure, Nioxin is way over priced for what you get. There are many less expansive products on the market that are every bit as good or better. Sulfate free is the way to go when you can, especially if you wash every day. Nizoral is not sulfate free, but since you only use it once or twice a week, your exposure to the sulfates in it are insignificant.

As far as brand preference goes, I like Aveeno. Aveeno makes an excellent sulfate free shampoo, conditioner and 2in1. As also like Nuetrogena BTW, but I use Aveeno.

[graymonkey44]

Thanks for the replies. If I were to take minoxidil, what would you recommend? There's been pretty good reviews with Lipogaine although it does contain azelaic acid, too. I've been looking at different doctors that specialize in hair loss and there is a Bosley clinic where I live. Should I schedule a free consultation there or would it be a waste of my time?

[graymonkey44]

Well I spoke online with a represenative from the Hair Loss Control Clinic. The woman I spoke to was very nice, but I'm still a little hesitant on whether I want to go. They are willing to do a free consultation, but I'm nervouse they will try to pressure me into buying something. It seems like they have some quality products, but I'm not sure if laser therapy is really necessary for me. I'm sure the products are probably pretty overpriced, too. Any thoughts?

[Tracy C]

Thanks for the replies. If I were to take minoxidil, what would you recommend?

If you are only going to use Minoxidil once a day, use Rogaine foam.

If you intend to use Minoxidil twice a day, use Rogaine foam for your morning dose and generic liquid Minoxidil for your evening dose.

Either way, taper onto the dose you decide on slowly over time. If you decide to stop using it, taper off of it slowly over time.

There is no need and too little benefit for the exotic blends. So don't waste your money on them. Rogaine foam, Generic Mioxidil foam and generic liquid Minoxidil are all available at Walmart for reasonable prices.

I've been looking at different doctors that specialize in hair loss and there is a Bosley clinic where I live. Should I schedule a free consultation there or would it be a waste of my time?

Stay away from Bosley or any other chain "clinic". Look for an IAHRS doctor in your area.

http://www.iahrs.org/hair-transplant/

It seems like they have some quality products, but I'm not sure if laser therapy is really necessary for me.

Many people feel low level laser therapy is a scam and a waste of money. I am not one of those people. My sister and I use the laser comb ourselves and I do feel it has helped both of us appreciably. However, there is the possibility that LLLT might work better for women than it does for men. Looking at the photos you have provided, I personally feel you would probably benefit from using the laser comb every other day. However, I do not think paying the high cost of laser treatments from a clinic is worth the money. If you are seriously considering LLLT, just buy a laser comb directly from Hairmax. That way you will at least get the money back guarantee if it doesn't work for you.

[graymonkey44]

Does the laser therapy actually promote regrowth? Or does it just make the hair look fuller? I emailed a doctor on the link provided and he recommended I go on finasteride 1/4 of a 5mg tablet every other day. I'm unsure of whether I want to go this route. I sent the doctor some pictures as well for reference. The doctor also said that minoxidil helps stop hair loss, but isn't a good promoter in hair growth. I thought it was just the opposite. I though minoxidil was supposed to be a great promoter of hair growth. I may go in for a personal consulatation, though.