Should I use propecia?

[mpb47]

I know one thing for sure your a smart person. I have no doubt that you have come to your conclusions with honest reading and consideration. I also know that from your words you believe passionately there is no correlation in fact we can call it the common belief even amongst doctors today. What you don't know is there has not been a person report a year of abstinence on any forum not one. If propecia takes a year then Why not abstinence. Second, I have had personal experiences and conversations with many people who have cured hair loss with full abstinence. I my self have not been able to go longer then 3 weeks because I don't care enough about going bald to give that up. However I do know it's my choice and people who have never used forums have not had the bad stigma that comes on forums. These people cured their hair loss and never knew there was a forum for hair loss. So be like me say fu*k it but don't deny that you can stop it with abstinence. Dht will stop If you don't use your prostate and none of you can say different because you haven't tested it so u don't know. Science has had numerous explanations that contradict previous "facts" every day for as long as mankind has been here. The world was not flat. So then the only thing you can rely on is self testing.

Please read this article:

http://www.bmj.com/content/310/6990/1289.full

DHT is why complete abstinence is impossible for most guys.
DHT makes us go bald.
DHT is going to be produced even if you could completely stop.
DHT is result of testosterone + 5 alpha reductase

[beatinghairloss]

Please read this article:

http://www.bmj.com/content/310/6990/1289.full

DHT is why complete abstinence is impossible for most guys.
DHT makes us go bald.
DHT is going to be produced even if you could completely stop.
DHT is result of testosterone + 5 alpha reductase

Do you realize you just posted a study that says if you ejaculate one more time per week your DHT is higher? Your not gonna say its the other way Around you don't spontaneously ejaculate because your horny you get Hornyer and do it more often because of sexual stimulation. So your counter argument study is oxymoron.

[beatinghairloss]

MPB…. did you even read that study you posted? Just wondering because that’s pretty much my biggest contributor for my theory and you tried to use it against me? Have you read any of the research on the link between the prostate, ejaculation and hair loss? Did you read the prostate function link I just posted or have you come up with your conclusions with no alternative thought at all?

Its scary to think you would rule this out without even an objective thought. Like I said I will lose my hair if it means enjoying one of the best things in life but that doesn't mean I dont fully understand that its a trade off.....Hair for sex....This ironic because without mastering self control and keeping ejaculations at bay you wont be able to get laid anyways....shity yes but it is the truth.

[mpb47]

MPB…. did you even read that study you posted? Just wondering because that’s pretty much my biggest contributor for my theory and you tried to use it against me? Have you read any of the research on the link between the prostate, ejaculation and hair loss? Did you read the prostate function link I just posted or have you come up with your conclusions with no alternative thought at all?

Its scary to think you would rule this out without even an objective thought. Like I said I will lose my hair if it means enjoying one of the best things in life but that doesn't mean I dont fully understand that its a trade off.....Hair for sex....This ironic because without mastering self control and keeping ejaculations at bay you wont be able to get laid anyways....shity yes but it is the truth.

Of course I read it. But it's pretty clear that you refuse to believe there is a difference between causality and correlation. If you really believe what you are saying then you should try it and see what happens. But think about this: if the prostate is the issue, then why do women, who do not have prostates often bald just like we do if given T ?

[beatinghairloss]

Of course I read it. But it's pretty clear that you refuse to believe there is a difference between causality and correlation. If you really believe what you are saying then you should try it and see what happens. But think about this: if the prostate is the issue, then why do women, who do not have prostates often bald just like we do if given T ?

Again you have brought up a double edge sword. Your prostate is not the only place where you convert T-DHT however it is the primary place. This means you can not use your prostate and work out like crazy all the time and still lose your hair. Women can convert DHT from the little amounts of T they have in the brain and muscles. If you give a women T it is probably because they are weight lifting which means they would be able to convert it that way. Either way the fact is if you do not alter a woman’s hormones by adding a male androgen then they never bald in the way we do and the ones who do lose hair are few and far between.

[beatinghairloss]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2055645

Read this article again. Notice how it says that there is 95% of the T being converted to DHT that travels through the prostate thats a pretty high number but leaves you enough T to still maintain other bodily functions.

[25 going on 65]

Most women who get T supplementation aren't weight lifters, they are FTM transgendered people.
Also the prostate gets used whether or not you ejaculate....and men who don't masturbate or have sex experience ejaculations during other times such as during sleep or even during certain exercises.
And women who experience pattern baldness are actually very common, most have experienced some degree of it by old age, but they typically have female-pattern loss and not male-pattern unless they are supplemented with T. Then it goes male-pattern.
DHT "traveling through the prostate".....correlation isn't cause

[beatinghairloss]

Most women who get T supplementation aren't weight lifters, they are FTM transgendered people.
Also the prostate gets used whether or not you ejaculate....and men who don't masturbate or have sex experience ejaculations during other times such as during sleep or even during certain exercises.
And women who experience pattern baldness are actually very common, most have experienced some degree of it by old age, but they typically have female-pattern loss and not male-pattern unless they are supplemented with T. Then it goes male-pattern.
DHT "traveling through the prostate".....correlation isn't cause

You have merely circle talked the points I made you cannot deny the fact that 95% of T is converted into DHT for the function of the prostate to add semen. If you do not use it often you will not just make semen that vanishes. Even if aroused and not ejaculating you urinate your semen out this is very noticeable and otherwise if you are not you will not make it. I have gone three weeks without and never had an exercise orgasm or anything like you describe. Most importantly you forget that Propecia was originally made for BPH, that castrated men don’t lose any more hair, and that 7 days of abstinence there is a spike in T because the body stops making DHT as it fills the prostate with semen. This is fact and I can't believe people on this who so badly want to keep their hair would ignore this. It’s mind boggling to me. I enjoy sex with my partner and will continue to do so till I am as bald as an eagle but I do know what’s causing it. At the very least you should be able to admit if the prostate converts T to DHT and some low level no matter what that if you are constantly using to ejaculate of course that would increase it. HOW AND THE HELL CAN ANY EDUCATED PERSON DENY THAT UNLESS THEY HAVE NOT DONE ANY READING ON THE SUBJECT AT ALL?

[25 going on 65]

You have merely circle talked the points I made you cannot deny the fact that 95% of T is converted into DHT for the function of the prostate to add semen. If you do not use it often you will not just make semen that vanishes. Even if aroused and not ejaculating you urinate your semen out this is very noticeable and otherwise if you are not you will not make it. I have gone three weeks without and never had an exercise orgasm or anything like you describe. Most importantly you forget that Propecia was originally made for BPH, that castrated men don’t lose any more hair, and that 7 days of abstinence there is a spike in T because the body stops making DHT as it fills the prostate with semen. This is fact and I can't believe people on this who so badly want to keep their hair would ignore this. It’s mind boggling to me. I enjoy sex with my partner and will continue to do so till I am as bald as an eagle but I do know what’s causing it. At the very least you should be able to admit if the prostate converts T to DHT and some low level no matter what that if you are constantly using to ejaculate of course that would increase it. HOW AND THE HELL CAN ANY EDUCATED PERSON DENY THAT UNLESS THEY HAVE NOT DONE ANY READING ON THE SUBJECT AT ALL?

Men who don't ejaculate through sex or masturbation do in fact have nocturnal emissions and can also ejaculate while awake. Hence the maligned "bench press ejaculation."
The varying levels of DHT that come with, eg, physical activity don't have an appreciable effect on balding because 1. long-term the changes aren't significant relative to DHT levels in general, and 2. the problem with MPB sufferers isn't actually DHT levels but follicular sensitivity to the hormone. Hence why some men with abnormally high DHT don't go bald, while men with abnormally low DHT do.
Also I might have misinterpreted what you were trying to say but 95% of T isn't converted to DHT in males, about 5% is.
And DHT is synthesized in testes, glands producing adrenal hormones as well as (importantly) hair follicles so even with no prostate synthesis the hormone would be produced exactly where we least want it (follicles).
Anyway I must bring us back to the fact that no study has ever shown reduced ejaculation to have any appreciable effect on hair loss, and those who have tried it have failed to stop their MPB.

[beatinghairloss]

Men who don't ejaculate through sex or masturbation do in fact have nocturnal emissions and can also ejaculate while awake. Hence the maligned "bench press ejaculation."
The varying levels of DHT that come with, eg, physical activity don't have an appreciable effect on balding because 1. long-term the changes aren't significant relative to DHT levels in general, and 2. the problem with MPB sufferers isn't actually DHT levels but follicular sensitivity to the hormone. Hence why some men with abnormally high DHT don't go bald, while men with abnormally low DHT do.
Also I might have misinterpreted what you were trying to say but 95% of T isn't converted to DHT in males, about 5% is.
And DHT is synthesized in testes, glands producing adrenal hormones as well as (importantly) hair follicles so even with no prostate synthesis the hormone would be produced exactly where we least want it (follicles).
Anyway I must bring us back to the fact that no study has ever shown reduced ejaculation to have any appreciable effect on hair loss, and those who have tried it have failed to stop their MPB.

Hair growth is affected by multiple factors much like the growth of a plant in your garden. You do not simply plant a seed in dry ground and expect the sun to do all the work. You also need water. Additionally this water and soil needs certain nutrients to maintain the optimal level of plant health. The soil must be loose enough for aeration to occur otherwise the water cannot move about freely to the roots. Well much like a plant needing sun, water, and nutrients hair needs nutrient rich blood, hormones and a healthy thick loose scalp. Some hormones promote body and facial hair and some promote hair on the head. It just so happens that the hormone that promotes facial and body hair also damages hair on the head under the “wrong” condition. I will get to that wrong condition in a moment. First what is this hormone that promotes facial and body hair and is also the main cause for Male Pattern Baldness (MPB)? It’s called Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and it’s a potent androgen that is converted from Testosterone (T) in many places but primarily in your Prostate. This is common knowledge that DHT is the culprit behind MPB and all medications on the market aim at stopping this conversion of T-DHT. The only medication that has had any real success with this was first introduced to the public under the brand name Propecia. Propecia claims to block the enzyme responsible for making this conversion of T-DHT and that enzyme is called the 5-Alpha Reductase. If you don’t already know, an enzyme is a catalyst that speeds up or in some cases makes a chemical reaction happen that otherwise would not have been possible. Propecia makers originally prescribed the medication for people experiencing Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride. In other words BPH is simply an enlarged prostate usually noticed by an increased in urine frequency and in most cases difficulty urinating. Propecia works by reducing the size of the prostate and it was later that it was discovered to grow hair on balding crowns of men. Sense then they have hypothesized that Propecia blocks T-DHT conversion via the inhibiting of the 5-Alpha Reductase. Its mechanism for doing this or to what degree it does is irrelevant because it’s merely counter acting what causes the prostate to work which is the 5-Alpha Reductase which is activated via ejaculation. As Testosterone leaves the testicle(s) along with Sperm it travels to the Prostate where the semen is excreted through Dermal Cells to join the Semen to make the total ejaculate http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2055645. Semen from the prostate keeps the sperm alive in the highly acidic Vagina. 95% of the Testosterone that gets to the prostate is converted into Dihydrotestosterone. These hormones are very much essential for reproductions and go on to be key in mammalian hair growth. Around age 12 your prostate is only the size of pea where it begins a rapid growth phase that will slow down in your early 20’s. After you have reached this age and subsequently this size prostate you now are able per ejaculation to put out more DHT than ever before. So then DHT will promote hair growth in many places in your body before it affects hair however at high enough levels you begin to experience free DHT that simply has nowhere to go. A hair has growth phase of 6 years so if you have all the hair you need growing and you continue to have high DHT it’s going to be expelled out of your body VIA acne. Now this would be fine if it were not for that “condition” that I mentioned in the beginning. Because of various factors that are being discovered as you read this the scalp of males and females can become very tight. It is in this tight scalp that DHT cannot make it across the tiny capillaries running across the top of your head. The DHT literally gets clogged in the “run off” to the hair follicle and the hair starves to death. The tightness of the scalp comes in many forms and where that pressure is applied is what will begin this balding process and also how fast the pressure is applied will determine how quickly you lose your hair in those areas. Some people the pressure gives at certain areas so they don’t lose as much hair other it’s all over and for some there is no pressure at all and you experience heavy body hair, acne, or sweat profusely and DHT exits without causing any hair loss at all.

[beatinghairloss]

Sense you are hell-bent on having proof. There is no evidence that DHT is made in the hair follicle, we find it there we only speculate that it’s synthesized there. If you dissect a body the highest quantity of DHT found anywhere is the prostate BY FAR!!! Most of your information comes from assumed scientific fact while mine comes from observed scientific fact.

[25 going on 65]

Hair growth is affected by multiple factors much like the growth of a plant in your garden. You do not simply plant a seed in dry ground and expect the sun to do all the work. You also need water. Additionally this water and soil needs certain nutrients to maintain the optimal level of plant health. The soil must be loose enough for aeration to occur otherwise the water cannot move about freely to the roots. Well much like a plant needing sun, water, and nutrients hair needs nutrient rich blood, hormones and a healthy thick loose scalp. Some hormones promote body and facial hair and some promote hair on the head. It just so happens that the hormone that promotes facial and body hair also damages hair on the head under the “wrong” condition. I will get to that wrong condition in a moment. First what is this hormone that promotes facial and body hair and is also the main cause for Male Pattern Baldness (MPB)? It’s called Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and it’s a potent androgen that is converted from Testosterone (T) in many places but primarily in your Prostate. This is common knowledge that DHT is the culprit behind MPB and all medications on the market aim at stopping this conversion of T-DHT. The only medication that has had any real success with this was first introduced to the public under the brand name Propecia. Propecia claims to block the enzyme responsible for making this conversion of T-DHT and that enzyme is called the 5-Alpha Reductase. If you don’t already know, an enzyme is a catalyst that speeds up or in some cases makes a chemical reaction happen that otherwise would not have been possible. Propecia makers originally prescribed the medication for people experiencing Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride. In other words BPH is simply an enlarged prostate usually noticed by an increased in urine frequency and in most cases difficulty urinating. Propecia works by reducing the size of the prostate and it was later that it was discovered to grow hair on balding crowns of men. Sense then they have hypothesized that Propecia blocks T-DHT conversion via the inhibiting of the 5-Alpha Reductase. Its mechanism for doing this or to what degree it does is irrelevant because it’s merely counter acting what causes the prostate to work which is the 5-Alpha Reductase which is activated via ejaculation. As Testosterone leaves the testicle(s) along with Sperm it travels to the Prostate where the semen is excreted through Dermal Cells to join the Semen to make the total ejaculate http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2055645. Semen from the prostate keeps the sperm alive in the highly acidic Vagina. 95% of the Testosterone that gets to the prostate is converted into Dihydrotestosterone. These hormones are very much essential for reproductions and go on to be key in mammalian hair growth. Around age 12 your prostate is only the size of pea where it begins a rapid growth phase that will slow down in your early 20’s. After you have reached this age and subsequently this size prostate you now are able per ejaculation to put out more DHT than ever before. So then DHT will promote hair growth in many places in your body before it affects hair however at high enough levels you begin to experience free DHT that simply has nowhere to go. A hair has growth phase of 6 years so if you have all the hair you need growing and you continue to have high DHT it’s going to be expelled out of your body VIA acne.

5-ar is produced with or without ejaculation.
Ejaculation occurs with or without sex/masturbation.
Quantity of acne and body hair aren't known to appreciably fluctuate with frequency of ejaculation--not from person to person and not over time in an individual. Probably because the average level of DHT in a person, over time, does not significantly change with the frequency of ejaculation.
Fin has been considered a 5-ar inhibitor since it was sold as purely a prostate drug; it wasn't marketed as purely a "prostate shrinker" which then was "theorized" to inhibit 5-ar.
Prostate shrinkage is the result of finasteride binding to the 5-ar enzyme and inhibiting production of DHT, not the other way around.

Now this would be fine if it were not for that “condition” that I mentioned in the beginning. Because of various factors that are being discovered as you read this the scalp of males and females can become very tight. It is in this tight scalp that DHT cannot make it across the tiny capillaries running across the top of your head. The DHT literally gets clogged in the “run off” to the hair follicle and the hair starves to death. The tightness of the scalp comes in many forms and where that pressure is applied is what will begin this balding process and also how fast the pressure is applied will determine how quickly you lose your hair in those areas. Some people the pressure gives at certain areas so they don’t lose as much hair other it’s all over and for some there is no pressure at all and you experience heavy body hair, acne, or sweat profusely and DHT exits without causing any hair loss at all.

Tightness of scalp as a hair loss catalyst is a wives tale with no solid evidence behind it. Many hair loss sufferers have higher scalp laxity than average, particularly those who perform scalp exercises in the run up to hair transplantation. Also many men free of MPB have tight scalps.
I don't know why this old idea doesn't die off in the era of the internet but here it is. Hair transplants alone kill this idea off. When you transplant DHT-sensitive follicles from the scalp to anywhere else, they keep miniaturizing regardless of surrounding tissue laxity. Yet hairs transplanted from the horse shoe region do not.

There is no evidence that DHT is made in the hair follicle, we find it there we only speculate that it’s synthesized there.

"Don't troll me bro."

On a last note, the reason I put emphasis on having ANY study showing that reduced ejaculation can slow, stop or reverse hair loss is because that's what would demonstrate a causal relationship. Correlation isn't cause. Determining a cause takes more than cherry picking a handful of observations and playing connect-the-dots with guesswork. E.g. from what we know about saw palmetto, it "makes sense" that this substance SHOULD be able to prevent or at least noticeably slow MPB. But it doesn't. It simply doesn't work.
The same goes for abstinence and scalp massages, except neither has the amount of promising evidence behind it as saw palmetto once did.

[25 going on 65]

.......however like with SP, we have a long procession of anecdotes from men who tried to treat their MPB by not ejaculating and by exercising their scalps. And like with SP, they failed to show improvement.

[beatinghairloss]

5-ar is produced with or without ejaculation.
Ejaculation occurs with or without sex/masturbation.
Quantity of acne and body hair aren't known to appreciably fluctuate with frequency of ejaculation--not from person to person and not over time in an individual. Probably because the average level of DHT in a person, over time, does not significantly change with the frequency of ejaculation.
Fin has been considered a 5-ar inhibitor since it was sold as purely a prostate drug; it wasn't marketed as purely a "prostate shrinker" which then was "theorized" to inhibit 5-ar.
Prostate shrinkage is the result of finasteride binding to the 5-ar enzyme and inhibiting production of DHT, not the other way around.




Tightness of scalp as a hair loss catalyst is a wives tale with no solid evidence behind it. Many hair loss sufferers have higher scalp laxity than average, particularly those who perform scalp exercises in the run up to hair transplantation. Also many men free of MPB have tight scalps.
I don't know why this old idea doesn't die off in the era of the internet but here it is. Hair transplants alone kill this idea off. When you transplant DHT-sensitive follicles from the scalp to anywhere else, they keep miniaturizing regardless of surrounding tissue laxity. Yet hairs transplanted from the horse shoe region do not.



"Don't troll me bro."

On a last note, the reason I put emphasis on having ANY study showing that reduced ejaculation can slow, stop or reverse hair loss is because that's what would demonstrate a causal relationship. Correlation isn't cause. Determining a cause takes more than cherry picking a handful of observations and playing connect-the-dots with guesswork. E.g. from what we know about saw palmetto, it "makes sense" that this substance SHOULD be able to prevent or at least noticeably slow MPB. But it doesn't. It simply doesn't work.
The same goes for abstinence and scalp massages, except neither has the amount of promising evidence behind it as saw palmetto once did.

5-Ar is produced without ejaculation....? PROVE IT... This and everything you have said including your claim that ejaculation frequency doesn't effect hair loss is a lie because you have not scientific proof. None show me a study that says if you dont ejaculate 5-Ar is still made show me one. You don't have any but you believe so much that ejaculation has nothing to do with hair loss you just assume.

[25 going on 65]

5-Ar is produced without ejaculation....? PROVE IT... This and everything you have said including your claim that ejaculation frequency doesn't effect hair loss is a lie because you have not scientific proof. None show me a study that says if you dont ejaculate 5-Ar is still made show me one. You don't have any but you believe so much that ejaculation has nothing to do with hair loss you just assume.

5-ar is produced not only in the reproductive anatomy but the skin. You don't have to ejaculate for this to happen, in fact males with anejaculation disorder still create the enzyme in their tissues. Anejaculation is actually fairly common and if it caused a complete halt of all 5-ar production (therefore a halt on all DHT synthesis) it would be highly obvious. (Come to think of it, a male going through puberty with anejaculation would not even be able to develop normally.)
Also females produce the 5-ar enzyme despite having different sexual anatomy (no prostate, testes, epididymis, etc.) and despite that they don't "ejaculate" in the sense men do. I don't know who gave you the idea that the body cannot create 5-ar without ejaculating but it's a completely random connection.
And I have no burden of evidence as far as "ejaculation doesn't make you lose your hair," it's not my responsibility to prove a negative. You're the one claiming ejaculation DOES make you lose hair, so the burden of proof is on you, or at least the burden to give us some kind of solid evidence of a causal relationship. This is like me insisting that ejaculation causes blindness because you don't have controlled studies to demonstrate it doesn't.