Really need advice! Go ahead with dr Gho?

[Gandolf]

No - that's NOT what he said. He said completely the contrary and he even explained why this can't happen.

Sorry buddy but you are 100% wrong. Just listen to this youtube clip of the interview for a few seconds starting at 21 min 10 seconds. I will also transcribe below the exact conversation which you can verify.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xapYyuI0lVA

Gho: We did some studies where we used the same donor area after 3 months, and 3 months is too short if you extract within 3 months, you will indeed, what you said, the donor area is not healed properly yet. And therefore, will damage the donor area too much within the 3 months, and therefore will leave scars.

Spencer: Right. But even if you leave 12 months, there's still going to be some degree, even if it's microscopic, of scarring?

Gho: Yes.

Spencer: Some degree of damage to the area?

Gho: Yes.

Spencer: Some degree of hardening, or fibrosis?

Gho: Yes.

Spencer: Whatever you want to call it.

Gho: Yes.

[534623]

1)Individual scars might be too small to be noticed on the head when looking at it but there is still scar tissue created (Gho admits this himself in one of the Spencer Kobren interviews).

No - that's NOT what he said. He said completely the contrary and he even explained why this can't happen.

[Gandolf]

What kinda greater risk of long term problems would a scarless surgery poses ?

1)Individual scars might be too small to be noticed on the head when looking at it but there is still scar tissue created (Gho admits this himself in one of the Spencer Kobren interviews).
2)Poor aesthetic results
3)Poor yields
4)Poor donor regeneration

I am not saying that numbers 1, 2, and 3 are going to happen...but they are certainly a theoretical risk of going under the knife.

[534623]

What kinda greater risk of long term problems would a scarless surgery poses ?

He is talking about this problem...

...in case if he will suffer from permanent shockloss or DUPA or senescent AGA after having his hair transplants by Rahal and/or Hasson&Wrong.
Especially above/behind his ears - everybody will see his stretching long strip scar and he will be unable to hide this "dirty secret". That is his problem.

[photo removed at user's request. Please not repost other's member's photos without their permission]

[Kiwi]

Do not goto Gho.

Get plucking from Jerry Cooley. I'm serious brother - ironman and hellouser work for Gho.

G3skock is just photos from Ghos secretary - it's all photoshopped

Sad but true

[aim4hair]

It says to tell your Dr. if you experience it, that's different from saying there's a probability you will experience it. I'm not opposed to those who say Propecia is too risky, I just think it's insane when those same people are saying have surgery. Surgery, without a shadow of a doubt, poses a significantly greater risk of long term problems than Propecia.

What kinda greater risk of long term problems would a scarless surgery poses ?

[Gandolf]

What kind of evidence you need when the company itself admits the possibility of permanent side effects!!

Below is a quick look at the side effects from propecia site:

"In clinical studies for PROPECIA, a small number of men experienced certain sexual side effects, such as less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, or a decrease in the amount of semen. Each of these side effects occurred in less than 2% of men and went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them."

The above part is OK, since it mentions that sides wll go away once you quit the drug, but then comes the next paragraph:

"In general use, the following have been reported: breast tenderness and enlargement (tell your doctor about any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain, or nipple discharge); depression; decrease in sex drive that continued after stopping the medication; allergic reactions including rash, itching, hives, and swelling of the lips and face; problems with ejaculation that continued after stopping medication; testicular pain; difficulty in achieving an erection that continued after stopping the medication; male infertility and/or poor quality of semen; and, in rare cases, male breast cancer. Tell your doctor if you have any side effect that bothers you or that does not go away."

It says to tell your Dr. if you experience it, that's different from saying there's a probability you will experience it. I'm not opposed to those who say Propecia is too risky, I just think it's insane when those same people are saying have surgery. Surgery, without a shadow of a doubt, poses a significantly greater risk of long term problems than Propecia.

[aim4hair]

there exists no real evidence of Propecia causing permanent effects.

What kind of evidence you need when the company itself admits the possibility of permanent side effects!!

Below is a quick look at the side effects from propecia site:

"In clinical studies for PROPECIA, a small number of men experienced certain sexual side effects, such as less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, or a decrease in the amount of semen. Each of these side effects occurred in less than 2% of men and went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them."

The above part is OK, since it mentions that sides wll go away once you quit the drug, but then comes the next paragraph:

"In general use, the following have been reported: breast tenderness and enlargement (tell your doctor about any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain, or nipple discharge); depression; decrease in sex drive that continued after stopping the medication; allergic reactions including rash, itching, hives, and swelling of the lips and face; problems with ejaculation that continued after stopping medication; testicular pain; difficulty in achieving an erection that continued after stopping the medication; male infertility and/or poor quality of semen; and, in rare cases, male breast cancer. Tell your doctor if you have any side effect that bothers you or that does not go away."

[Gandolf]

You're both right and both wrong.

I had side effects from propecia. I think it sucks and wouldnt touch it. I feel lucky that everything is back in working order. It doesnt matter if the drug is out of your system - some people freak out and get obsessed and then the damage is done. Permanently. If you think you can't get an erection and worry about it too much you probably wont' get one.

I'm not sure how this makes me right AND wrong, your case pretty much illustrates what I said that surgery in a much, MUCH riskier option in the long run because whereas the side effects of surgery can be lifelong and potentially unrepairable, there exists no real evidence of Propecia causing permanent effects. Yes, you have people who are going to freak out and obsess over side effects and effect their libido due to their own anxiety about a physical problem that doesn't exist...but that is a different issue entirely and in my opinion can't really be pinned on Propecia itself. You had bad results from both surgical and medical and luckily, you were able to reverse the bad results from the medical treatments. Reversing the damage from your surgery will not be as easy and maybe not possible, but breakthroughs are occurring and I wish you well and hope that you eventually do get the results you're after.

[clarence]

At the very least it works as FUE does without scaring. For that reason alone its better then FUT and normal FUE.

For donor regeneration alone its better than FUT and normal FUE. Just saying I'm not sure I've seen more evidence for scarlessness than I've seen for donor regeneration. Then again, observing scars require a higher image quality.

[Kiwi]

Some valid point you've got. Even still, I really think the risk of PERMANENT side effects for a grown man taking propecia are just so low. I mean think about that for a minute, how could it still be causing the effects 6 months after cessation of the drug? We know it stops DHT inhibitance once you go off because the possitive benefits for the hair stop. So once you get your DHT back, what long term damage could you have really done? I know anything sexual scares the shit out of us, but the risks of PERMANENT bad effects (not sexual, just bad effects in general) are worse via surgery than Propecia, and that goes for tradition HT as well as Dr. Gho's procedure. There are risks of scarring, poor yield, lack of donor regrowth, poor aesthetic results, etc.

I agree with you that the absense of unhappy Gho patients online is very positive, he's been around years and done 1,000s of these, but that still doesn't mean that all his claims are valid. We know he's conservative and doesn't seem to be screwing people up...but then again you can approach from an opposite angle and say that he has virtually no documentation of making big visual transformations i.e. wow results online. Clinics like Rahal and H&W are limited by finite donor supply and have dozens of literally mind blowing results, and Gho claims to greatly expand the donor supply and you can't even find 2-3 pics of big transformations anywhere online? I want to believe as badly as anyone that he can do what he says he can do, and the story will play out, but until he has some documentation of great finished results, versus just the science and the donor regrowth, I have to remain cautiously optimisit but still far from convinced. And for that reason I think it's reckless to tell somebody "you've got no alternative, you need to immediately book with Dr. Gho!"

You're both right and both wrong.

I had side effects from propecia. I think it sucks and wouldnt touch it. I feel lucky that everything is back in working order. It doesnt matter if the drug is out of your system - some people freak out and get obsessed and then the damage is done. Permanently. If you think you can't get an erection and worry about it too much you probably wont' get one.

Unfortunately I had an FUT procedure done and I'm pretty desperate. I feel terrible that I have scars. Such dumb vanity. If I could go back I would.

In hindsight I wish I'd at least spent my money on Gho. Its not like my FUT's provided good results. So that being the case why not see Gho.

At the very least it works as FUE does without scaring. For that reason alone its better then FUT and normal FUE.

[Gandolf]

In regards to Propecia, I completely agree that it is the best solution to fighting hairloss... at least best proven. RU has shown some fantastic results (look into IrishPride's journey, its better than any examples of Propecia). CB is supposedly 2X as strong as Fin so it could be even better though still not proven.

I would be more concerned about him developing permanent erectile dysfunction with Propecia. That terrifies me and for that reason alone I would never run the risk of using it.

In regards to Gho; logic tells me if there hasnt been a solid case disproving his science (because there hasnt been, neither legitimate nor legal) it is more likely than not a legitimate claim. More people are are coming out of Gho's clinics happy and claiming it works than the contrary and this has been going on for YEARS. Its pretty bizarre how people are STILL skeptical.

In regards to Bosley: seriously though.... $200 million to drop and NOT have a working formula? That would be plain stupid for any investor. Their photographs in Phase II proved a working formula, the most important trial of all. Phase III will only determine which route they take as they have many options and that will chose the best one in the end. I dont want to say Aderans is 100% guaranteed, but all signs point to it. Now, as for how well it works... thats yet to be determined.

Some valid point you've got. Even still, I really think the risk of PERMANENT side effects for a grown man taking propecia are just so low. I mean think about that for a minute, how could it still be causing the effects 6 months after cessation of the drug? We know it stops DHT inhibitance once you go off because the possitive benefits for the hair stop. So once you get your DHT back, what long term damage could you have really done? I know anything sexual scares the shit out of us, but the risks of PERMANENT bad effects (not sexual, just bad effects in general) are worse via surgery than Propecia, and that goes for tradition HT as well as Dr. Gho's procedure. There are risks of scarring, poor yield, lack of donor regrowth, poor aesthetic results, etc.

I agree with you that the absense of unhappy Gho patients online is very positive, he's been around years and done 1,000s of these, but that still doesn't mean that all his claims are valid. We know he's conservative and doesn't seem to be screwing people up...but then again you can approach from an opposite angle and say that he has virtually no documentation of making big visual transformations i.e. wow results online. Clinics like Rahal and H&W are limited by finite donor supply and have dozens of literally mind blowing results, and Gho claims to greatly expand the donor supply and you can't even find 2-3 pics of big transformations anywhere online? I want to believe as badly as anyone that he can do what he says he can do, and the story will play out, but until he has some documentation of great finished results, versus just the science and the donor regrowth, I have to remain cautiously optimisit but still far from convinced. And for that reason I think it's reckless to tell somebody "you've got no alternative, you need to immediately book with Dr. Gho!"

[hellouser]

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start, I will put my own commentary in bold...

In regards to Propecia, I completely agree that it is the best solution to fighting hairloss... at least best proven. RU has shown some fantastic results (look into IrishPride's journey, its better than any examples of Propecia). CB is supposedly 2X as strong as Fin so it could be even better though still not proven.

I would be more concerned about him developing permanent erectile dysfunction with Propecia. That terrifies me and for that reason alone I would never run the risk of using it.

In regards to Gho; logic tells me if there hasnt been a solid case disproving his science (because there hasnt been, neither legitimate nor legal) it is more likely than not a legitimate claim. More people are are coming out of Gho's clinics happy and claiming it works than the contrary and this has been going on for YEARS. Its pretty bizarre how people are STILL skeptical.

In regards to Bosley: seriously though.... $200 million to drop and NOT have a working formula? That would be plain stupid for any investor. Their photographs in Phase II proved a working formula, the most important trial of all. Phase III will only determine which route they take as they have many options and that will chose the best one in the end. I dont want to say Aderans is 100% guaranteed, but all signs point to it. Now, as for how well it works... thats yet to be determined.

[Gandolf]

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start, I will put my own commentary in bold...

Gho is really the only option, any full blown or partial HT using either FUE or FUT is completely out of the question and playing with fire.... and thats being generous. While I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that a standard moving from point A to point B HT is a mistake for this particular guy, that does not make Gho the only option. Another option would be to wait it out and yet ANOTHER option would be to at least give Propecia a try and see first hand if he gets side effects of not. Whatever hair you take away from the donor area and put to the front, youre most likely only going to have a better looking head of hair for a short while (assuming nothing else is done to prevent it and no measures of prevention work). Youre really only going to get a short term gain.

Here's what you need to do:

1) Save your pennies and get a procedure done with Gho. There's really NO way around this and no point in even rejecting this suggestion considering your desire for a transplant. The OP is inquiring about HTs, but he didn't say with 100% certainty that he is going to go through with one in the near future. His post was more of an information gathering, weighing the pros/cons, risks/rewards of the standard HTs and Gho's HT.Aim for the highest possible number of grafts your wallet will allow *or* whatever Gho and your donor hair will allow.

2) Save more pennies for RU58841 and get on that immediately. I wouldnt recomment Finasteride unless youre willing to run the risk of getting permanent erectile dysfunction or even temporarily f*cking up your libido and erections. RU isn't cheap but its come down in price so it isn't stupid expensive either. 10g should last you about 4-8 months depending on dosage. At 100mg it is a 10% solution and quite effective, 10g goes for $300 CAD at the most and at 100mg daily it lasts for 100 days, so just a little over 3 months. I'm sure you can afford $100/month. I pay more in car insurance per month and I used to pay significantly more than that for my CELL PHONE BILL. There is NO credible proof that RU will help him at all, a much more proven drug exists in Propecia and it's less expensive.

3) Get Minox to go along with RU. Minox will stimulate growth while RU inhibits DHT. In combination the two work really well.

4) Get on Nizoral and use it at minimum 3X weekly.

5) Try using some shampoos with Saw Palmetto and L-Arginine. These are very weak but every measure counts.

6) Saw Palmetto extract pills are similar to finasteride but much weaker. Its a natural herb so its worth trying. Some people have reported lower libido while I've seen others report a higher libido. I've never read a report of permanent erectile dysfunction from Saw Palmetto.

All that in combination with a procedure with Dr. Gho should let you keep what you got until your ready for a second procedure with Gho in 9-12 months time. I wouldnt worry too much about donor regeneration too much, it has to work. Does it? Is this a proven fact or just your opinionThink about it; he's been in the business for years and as performed even on celebs. You'd think if he was lying he would have been sued, put into bankruptcy, out of business and dealt with a major criminal penalty for fraud. None of that has happened so you should be very confident. If this is your benchmark for how to prove the effectiveness of a new medical breakthrough, i.e. a lack of bankruptcy and lawsuits, then I don't think you are approaching things from a very scientific point of view.

Eventually after all this Aderans or Histogen will be available giving you even more hair and more options. Aderans looks most promising in regards to the fastest release date. In 2010 (iirc) they stated a Phase II trials would end in Q1 of 2013, Phase III trials would start shortly after and a commercial product by 2014. Guess what... theyre right on schedule and finishing up Phase II. Phase III typically takes 1 year to complete and I've been told by a pharmacist on the forum here that applications for a commercial release can be filed during Phase III trials. At best, we're looking at waiting for one more year. At worst.... who knows but I'd suspect 3 years *tops* since I can't see Phase III trials and a rollout taking any longer. They already bought out Bosley to have clinics ready (A $200 million dollar acquisition so you know theyre not f*cking around). The association with Bosley does not inspire confidence for me in the legitimacy of their product. With that being said, all of the possible products/procedures currently in research do make waiting a little more attractive, at least in my opinion.

Buck up dude, future looks bright, just get on a good regimen and make sure your consistent with it and hang on to the hair you got. In the meantime, definitely go with Gho and you'll be really happy after your first procedure. By the time you may need a second procedure with Gho you should have the option of Aderans and you STILL have RU and Minox to fight through.

And if you got a lot of money to burn; get on CB-03-01. That stuff is supposed to be twice as powerful as Finasteride and its topical with NO known side effects. I'll be buying some of it myself soon. I find it amazing that you back this guy away from Propecia, which is hands down the best non-surgical option we have right now, and recommend about a half dozen products with no proven track record, and 1 or 2 that I've never ever heard of despite countless hours of browsing these forums. I don't want to come off as a jerk as you seem to genuinely have a good nature in your post and in wishing this OP well, I just think you gave him some very questionable advice and it needed to be pointed out.

Good luck!

[hellouser]

Good news is: having a decent hairline will improve your look alot specially if you plan to buzz your hair or cut it short.

Bingo.

Rogaine/Minoxidil combined with RU58841 will work best on the crown, so that along with a decent hairline will make a world of a difference until a second procedure. You may end up looking a little thin up top, but anyone looking straight at you probably won't be able to tell.