Really need advice! Go ahead with dr Gho?

[censur]

Hi,

I am a 30 year old male and I have serious problems with hair loss.
It is indeed a life changing condition, and I am trying hard to cope with it.
I have tried using a hair clipper/buzzer to see how I look in a really short haircut, but phrankly, it simply doesn't look good.
I am now considering my options and of which dr Gho and HASCI certainly is the most attractive one.
Now I truly need the support and feedback from this forum!

I have also been on a live consultation with dr Bisanga, who I any many others consider to be a highly professional hair surgeon, in Brussels. He has concludeded that I am currently somewhere at a NW3-NW4, probably around NW4 now. He has also concluded that my donor area is very limited, and the therefore only reasonable option is a strip-surgery. He has estimated that a first strip (FUT) may give about 3000-3500 grafts and that a follow up surgery could perhaps give me about 1500-2500 more.
(I hope he rather under-estimates than over-estimates these numbers to avoid later disappointments!)
I am sure that 5000-6000 grafts would result in a vast improvement, but in a long term perspective I am very sceptical that it will suffice when very large portions of my original hair is lost.

I have also been on a consultation with dr Gho in Maastricht. There are of course no real guarantees that their donor regeneration technique really works, but for me it seems to only viable way to go now. My options now are pretty much to try HASCI or to give up and shave it all off!

Perhaps the about 1400 grafts that a HST can give me in one session is merely a drop in the ocean?
Or perhaps it can give me a good hairline to build from if I am willing to invest large amounts of time and money?
From what I have been able to read on forums etc etc, it is still not undoubtedly concluded that dr Ghos hair multiplication procedure actually works and that it actually results in donor regrowth,
but assuming it actually works to at least some extent: would that mean that in a period of a couple of years I could actually have good success in covering large parts of the head even with continued extensive hair loss of the original hair?
Counting on that HASCI in the future will be able to do larger surgeries than the about 1500 grafts they currently do, and that perhaps the prices may to some extent drop later when other cliniques catch on with the technique?

Why should I NOT try a HST? What is the realistic wost case scenario here? That my donor doesn't generate at all? That I will get some kind of permanent scarring that prevents me from having a shaved look in the future?
Or is the realistical worst case scenario that I have just wasted my money?
I can live with the economical risk since this is such a terrible headache for me!

For me it seems likely that a short haircut is the only haircut I will be able to have in the future. But right now my hair loss is almost too progressed for it to look good, because with a really short hair I can't use Toppik or Dermatch to conceal the balding areas.
Do you think 1400 grafts in the front will improve my appearence even with a really short hairut? Or will 1400 grafts in the front just look stupid?

And a final question: it is possible to get an appointment with HASCI the coming six months, but it is easier to get an appointment if dr Novia Mozart or someone else is the surgeon instead of dr Gho himself.
Do you think which of these two that performs the operation has any realistical implications on the quality of the operation, such as the hairline design etc?
I personally think this is an interesting question, although perhaps hard to answer.

I would truly and deeply appreciate all serious feedback you experts on this forum can give me!
As a thank you, I will of course update the forum with my progress and evaluation of the procedure if I go ahead an perform it!
I personally feel that the only thing that I can possible try to do to revert/slow down this terrible balding process is taking my chances with HASCI, but I certainly don't want to commit a mistake I cannot revert....

You can see photos of my hair at the bottom. The rightmost picture is taken a couple of weeks ago and the rest of the pictures a little more than year ago. This is pretty much how my hair looks today without any hair products such as Toppik etc (which in fact does major improvement)

[Gandolf]

Several things:

1.Given the extent of your hairloss at 30 years old, you seem destined to eventually lose all your native hair on top. I would imagine you have other males in your family with NW 6/7? This is significant because, some experience mild/moderate hairloss early on but are able to keep a good bit of hair on top of their heads and their loss stops progressing either through genetics and/or propecia use. Basically, whatever you plan, you have to take into consideration that you will likely lose everything you've got on top and have to think long term about how your hair transplant will age.

2.Given the above, along with your limited donor supply, I would be very, VERY hesitant to undergo a traditional hair transplant that simply moves hair form point A to point B, and does not multiple or regrow donor hairs. Dr. Bisanga is a good surgeon doing top work, but given your high norwood potential and limited donor supply, the most he (or any traditional HT surgeon) can offer you with his techniques would amount to would be a very conservative hairline with less than optimal density, basically a glorified comb-over.

3.I agree with you that Gho's technique, if it works, would be a better option because if you could multiple your donor by even 3X, you'd have way, way more options and better long term results. I also agree with you that it's far from proven that Gho's technique works, although I do think there is sufficient evidence that it looks promising.
_____________________________________________
Given all of that, my honest recommendation to you would be to wait it out a little longer before rushing into anything. Given the exposure that Gho is receiving recently from Spencer, he's basically in a position of "put up or shut up" so we will hopefully either see some better documentation or proof that the regrowth and yields are legit, or if we don't that we can reasonably conclude that he doesn't have the ability to back up his claims.

I know it's tough man, I'm 29 and about a NW 2.5 and even I get really depressed about my hair, I know that at 30 you're still young and most guys our age still have a large majority of their hair. I just think that your long term interests would be better served waiting out this Gho procedure for just a little while longer before taking the plunge.

Good luck to you and I hope some of the stuff I've written gives you some insight or helps you in some way.

[gc83uk]

Mate, don't waste anymore time, make an appointment to see Gho. 1400 grafts is more than you think and will get you well and truly on your way.

You will need further procedures, but combined with your hair on top which you may lose in time it'll look decent.

[didi]

Go and see Gho asap, get your first 1400 grafts then hope everything goes smooth and 9 months later try to get hasci to give you bigger session,maybe 2 day procedure, in meantime Ironmans HST 3.0 might become available

dont go to a to b doctor, you can always do that if you are not happy with gho

[Vox]

1.Given the extent of your hairloss at 30 years old, you seem destined to eventually lose all your native hair on top. I would imagine you have other males in your family with NW 6/7? This is significant because, some experience mild/moderate hairloss early on but are able to keep a good bit of hair on top of their heads and their loss stops progressing either through genetics and/or propecia use. Basically, whatever you plan, you have to take into consideration that you will likely lose everything you've got on top and have to think long term about how your hair transplant will age.

This is perhaps the most significant parameter to take into account. Around his age I had the same kind of diffuse hair loss, probably somewhat worse, and I ended up in the NW 6/7 realm. And yes, my grandfather (from the side of my mother) was like that.

A procedure with such diffuse hair loss pattern must be carefully planned out.

[aim4hair]

Bad news is: no HT will give u back the density u once had
Good news is: having a decent hairline will improve your look alot specially if you plan to buzz your hair or cut it short.

If i we you, i would go for the 1400 grafts on hairline for now. Get a buzzcut like snijder, and maybe use rogaine to slow down the mpb progress and then along the line go for other HSTs if you want.

The best advantage of HST is that it leaves no scars, so if along the line you decide to just shave your head and move on, you still can do it, so u really got nothing to lose..

[hellouser]

Gho is really the only option, any full blown or partial HT using either FUE or FUT is completely out of the question and playing with fire.... and thats being generous. Whatever hair you take away from the donor area and put to the front, youre most likely only going to have a better looking head of hair for a short while (assuming nothing else is done to prevent it and no measures of prevention work). Youre really only going to get a short term gain.

Here's what you need to do:

1) Save your pennies and get a procedure done with Gho. There's really NO way around this and no point in even rejecting this suggestion considering your desire for a transplant. Aim for the highest possible number of grafts your wallet will allow *or* whatever Gho and your donor hair will allow.

2) Save more pennies for RU58841 and get on that immediately. I wouldnt recomment Finasteride unless youre willing to run the risk of getting permanent erectile dysfunction or even temporarily f*cking up your libido and erections. RU isn't cheap but its come down in price so it isn't stupid expensive either. 10g should last you about 4-8 months depending on dosage. At 100mg it is a 10% solution and quite effective, 10g goes for $300 CAD at the most and at 100mg daily it lasts for 100 days, so just a little over 3 months. I'm sure you can afford $100/month. I pay more in car insurance per month and I used to pay significantly more than that for my CELL PHONE BILL.

3) Get Minox to go along with RU. Minox will stimulate growth while RU inhibits DHT. In combination the two work really well.

4) Get on Nizoral and use it at minimum 3X weekly.

5) Try using some shampoos with Saw Palmetto and L-Arginine. These are very weak but every measure counts.

6) Saw Palmetto extract pills are similar to finasteride but much weaker. Its a natural herb so its worth trying. Some people have reported lower libido while I've seen others report a higher libido. I've never read a report of permanent erectile dysfunction from Saw Palmetto.

All that in combination with a procedure with Dr. Gho should let you keep what you got until your ready for a second procedure with Gho in 9-12 months time. I wouldnt worry too much about donor regeneration too much, it has to work. Think about it; he's been in the business for years and as performed even on celebs. You'd think if he was lying he would have been sued, put into bankruptcy, out of business and dealt with a major criminal penalty for fraud. None of that has happened so you should be very confident.

Eventually after all this Aderans or Histogen will be available giving you even more hair and more options. Aderans looks most promising in regards to the fastest release date. In 2010 (iirc) they stated a Phase II trials would end in Q1 of 2013, Phase III trials would start shortly after and a commercial product by 2014. Guess what... theyre right on schedule and finishing up Phase II. Phase III typically takes 1 year to complete and I've been told by a pharmacist on the forum here that applications for a commercial release can be filed during Phase III trials. At best, we're looking at waiting for one more year. At worst.... who knows but I'd suspect 3 years *tops* since I can't see Phase III trials and a rollout taking any longer. They already bought out Bosley to have clinics ready (A $200 million dollar acquisition so you know theyre not f*cking around).

Buck up dude, future looks bright, just get on a good regimen and make sure your consistent with it and hang on to the hair you got. In the meantime, definitely go with Gho and you'll be really happy after your first procedure. By the time you may need a second procedure with Gho you should have the option of Aderans and you STILL have RU and Minox to fight through.

And if you got a lot of money to burn; get on CB-03-01. That stuff is supposed to be twice as powerful as Finasteride and its topical with NO known side effects. I'll be buying some of it myself soon.

Good luck!

[hellouser]

Good news is: having a decent hairline will improve your look alot specially if you plan to buzz your hair or cut it short.

Bingo.

Rogaine/Minoxidil combined with RU58841 will work best on the crown, so that along with a decent hairline will make a world of a difference until a second procedure. You may end up looking a little thin up top, but anyone looking straight at you probably won't be able to tell.

[Gandolf]

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start, I will put my own commentary in bold...

Gho is really the only option, any full blown or partial HT using either FUE or FUT is completely out of the question and playing with fire.... and thats being generous. While I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that a standard moving from point A to point B HT is a mistake for this particular guy, that does not make Gho the only option. Another option would be to wait it out and yet ANOTHER option would be to at least give Propecia a try and see first hand if he gets side effects of not. Whatever hair you take away from the donor area and put to the front, youre most likely only going to have a better looking head of hair for a short while (assuming nothing else is done to prevent it and no measures of prevention work). Youre really only going to get a short term gain.

Here's what you need to do:

1) Save your pennies and get a procedure done with Gho. There's really NO way around this and no point in even rejecting this suggestion considering your desire for a transplant. The OP is inquiring about HTs, but he didn't say with 100% certainty that he is going to go through with one in the near future. His post was more of an information gathering, weighing the pros/cons, risks/rewards of the standard HTs and Gho's HT.Aim for the highest possible number of grafts your wallet will allow *or* whatever Gho and your donor hair will allow.

2) Save more pennies for RU58841 and get on that immediately. I wouldnt recomment Finasteride unless youre willing to run the risk of getting permanent erectile dysfunction or even temporarily f*cking up your libido and erections. RU isn't cheap but its come down in price so it isn't stupid expensive either. 10g should last you about 4-8 months depending on dosage. At 100mg it is a 10% solution and quite effective, 10g goes for $300 CAD at the most and at 100mg daily it lasts for 100 days, so just a little over 3 months. I'm sure you can afford $100/month. I pay more in car insurance per month and I used to pay significantly more than that for my CELL PHONE BILL. There is NO credible proof that RU will help him at all, a much more proven drug exists in Propecia and it's less expensive.

3) Get Minox to go along with RU. Minox will stimulate growth while RU inhibits DHT. In combination the two work really well.

4) Get on Nizoral and use it at minimum 3X weekly.

5) Try using some shampoos with Saw Palmetto and L-Arginine. These are very weak but every measure counts.

6) Saw Palmetto extract pills are similar to finasteride but much weaker. Its a natural herb so its worth trying. Some people have reported lower libido while I've seen others report a higher libido. I've never read a report of permanent erectile dysfunction from Saw Palmetto.

All that in combination with a procedure with Dr. Gho should let you keep what you got until your ready for a second procedure with Gho in 9-12 months time. I wouldnt worry too much about donor regeneration too much, it has to work. Does it? Is this a proven fact or just your opinionThink about it; he's been in the business for years and as performed even on celebs. You'd think if he was lying he would have been sued, put into bankruptcy, out of business and dealt with a major criminal penalty for fraud. None of that has happened so you should be very confident. If this is your benchmark for how to prove the effectiveness of a new medical breakthrough, i.e. a lack of bankruptcy and lawsuits, then I don't think you are approaching things from a very scientific point of view.

Eventually after all this Aderans or Histogen will be available giving you even more hair and more options. Aderans looks most promising in regards to the fastest release date. In 2010 (iirc) they stated a Phase II trials would end in Q1 of 2013, Phase III trials would start shortly after and a commercial product by 2014. Guess what... theyre right on schedule and finishing up Phase II. Phase III typically takes 1 year to complete and I've been told by a pharmacist on the forum here that applications for a commercial release can be filed during Phase III trials. At best, we're looking at waiting for one more year. At worst.... who knows but I'd suspect 3 years *tops* since I can't see Phase III trials and a rollout taking any longer. They already bought out Bosley to have clinics ready (A $200 million dollar acquisition so you know theyre not f*cking around). The association with Bosley does not inspire confidence for me in the legitimacy of their product. With that being said, all of the possible products/procedures currently in research do make waiting a little more attractive, at least in my opinion.

Buck up dude, future looks bright, just get on a good regimen and make sure your consistent with it and hang on to the hair you got. In the meantime, definitely go with Gho and you'll be really happy after your first procedure. By the time you may need a second procedure with Gho you should have the option of Aderans and you STILL have RU and Minox to fight through.

And if you got a lot of money to burn; get on CB-03-01. That stuff is supposed to be twice as powerful as Finasteride and its topical with NO known side effects. I'll be buying some of it myself soon. I find it amazing that you back this guy away from Propecia, which is hands down the best non-surgical option we have right now, and recommend about a half dozen products with no proven track record, and 1 or 2 that I've never ever heard of despite countless hours of browsing these forums. I don't want to come off as a jerk as you seem to genuinely have a good nature in your post and in wishing this OP well, I just think you gave him some very questionable advice and it needed to be pointed out.

Good luck!

[hellouser]

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start, I will put my own commentary in bold...

In regards to Propecia, I completely agree that it is the best solution to fighting hairloss... at least best proven. RU has shown some fantastic results (look into IrishPride's journey, its better than any examples of Propecia). CB is supposedly 2X as strong as Fin so it could be even better though still not proven.

I would be more concerned about him developing permanent erectile dysfunction with Propecia. That terrifies me and for that reason alone I would never run the risk of using it.

In regards to Gho; logic tells me if there hasnt been a solid case disproving his science (because there hasnt been, neither legitimate nor legal) it is more likely than not a legitimate claim. More people are are coming out of Gho's clinics happy and claiming it works than the contrary and this has been going on for YEARS. Its pretty bizarre how people are STILL skeptical.

In regards to Bosley: seriously though.... $200 million to drop and NOT have a working formula? That would be plain stupid for any investor. Their photographs in Phase II proved a working formula, the most important trial of all. Phase III will only determine which route they take as they have many options and that will chose the best one in the end. I dont want to say Aderans is 100% guaranteed, but all signs point to it. Now, as for how well it works... thats yet to be determined.

[Gandolf]

In regards to Propecia, I completely agree that it is the best solution to fighting hairloss... at least best proven. RU has shown some fantastic results (look into IrishPride's journey, its better than any examples of Propecia). CB is supposedly 2X as strong as Fin so it could be even better though still not proven.

I would be more concerned about him developing permanent erectile dysfunction with Propecia. That terrifies me and for that reason alone I would never run the risk of using it.

In regards to Gho; logic tells me if there hasnt been a solid case disproving his science (because there hasnt been, neither legitimate nor legal) it is more likely than not a legitimate claim. More people are are coming out of Gho's clinics happy and claiming it works than the contrary and this has been going on for YEARS. Its pretty bizarre how people are STILL skeptical.

In regards to Bosley: seriously though.... $200 million to drop and NOT have a working formula? That would be plain stupid for any investor. Their photographs in Phase II proved a working formula, the most important trial of all. Phase III will only determine which route they take as they have many options and that will chose the best one in the end. I dont want to say Aderans is 100% guaranteed, but all signs point to it. Now, as for how well it works... thats yet to be determined.

Some valid point you've got. Even still, I really think the risk of PERMANENT side effects for a grown man taking propecia are just so low. I mean think about that for a minute, how could it still be causing the effects 6 months after cessation of the drug? We know it stops DHT inhibitance once you go off because the possitive benefits for the hair stop. So once you get your DHT back, what long term damage could you have really done? I know anything sexual scares the shit out of us, but the risks of PERMANENT bad effects (not sexual, just bad effects in general) are worse via surgery than Propecia, and that goes for tradition HT as well as Dr. Gho's procedure. There are risks of scarring, poor yield, lack of donor regrowth, poor aesthetic results, etc.

I agree with you that the absense of unhappy Gho patients online is very positive, he's been around years and done 1,000s of these, but that still doesn't mean that all his claims are valid. We know he's conservative and doesn't seem to be screwing people up...but then again you can approach from an opposite angle and say that he has virtually no documentation of making big visual transformations i.e. wow results online. Clinics like Rahal and H&W are limited by finite donor supply and have dozens of literally mind blowing results, and Gho claims to greatly expand the donor supply and you can't even find 2-3 pics of big transformations anywhere online? I want to believe as badly as anyone that he can do what he says he can do, and the story will play out, but until he has some documentation of great finished results, versus just the science and the donor regrowth, I have to remain cautiously optimisit but still far from convinced. And for that reason I think it's reckless to tell somebody "you've got no alternative, you need to immediately book with Dr. Gho!"

[Kiwi]

Some valid point you've got. Even still, I really think the risk of PERMANENT side effects for a grown man taking propecia are just so low. I mean think about that for a minute, how could it still be causing the effects 6 months after cessation of the drug? We know it stops DHT inhibitance once you go off because the possitive benefits for the hair stop. So once you get your DHT back, what long term damage could you have really done? I know anything sexual scares the shit out of us, but the risks of PERMANENT bad effects (not sexual, just bad effects in general) are worse via surgery than Propecia, and that goes for tradition HT as well as Dr. Gho's procedure. There are risks of scarring, poor yield, lack of donor regrowth, poor aesthetic results, etc.

I agree with you that the absense of unhappy Gho patients online is very positive, he's been around years and done 1,000s of these, but that still doesn't mean that all his claims are valid. We know he's conservative and doesn't seem to be screwing people up...but then again you can approach from an opposite angle and say that he has virtually no documentation of making big visual transformations i.e. wow results online. Clinics like Rahal and H&W are limited by finite donor supply and have dozens of literally mind blowing results, and Gho claims to greatly expand the donor supply and you can't even find 2-3 pics of big transformations anywhere online? I want to believe as badly as anyone that he can do what he says he can do, and the story will play out, but until he has some documentation of great finished results, versus just the science and the donor regrowth, I have to remain cautiously optimisit but still far from convinced. And for that reason I think it's reckless to tell somebody "you've got no alternative, you need to immediately book with Dr. Gho!"

You're both right and both wrong.

I had side effects from propecia. I think it sucks and wouldnt touch it. I feel lucky that everything is back in working order. It doesnt matter if the drug is out of your system - some people freak out and get obsessed and then the damage is done. Permanently. If you think you can't get an erection and worry about it too much you probably wont' get one.

Unfortunately I had an FUT procedure done and I'm pretty desperate. I feel terrible that I have scars. Such dumb vanity. If I could go back I would.

In hindsight I wish I'd at least spent my money on Gho. Its not like my FUT's provided good results. So that being the case why not see Gho.

At the very least it works as FUE does without scaring. For that reason alone its better then FUT and normal FUE.

[clarence]

At the very least it works as FUE does without scaring. For that reason alone its better then FUT and normal FUE.

For donor regeneration alone its better than FUT and normal FUE. Just saying I'm not sure I've seen more evidence for scarlessness than I've seen for donor regeneration. Then again, observing scars require a higher image quality.

[Gandolf]

You're both right and both wrong.

I had side effects from propecia. I think it sucks and wouldnt touch it. I feel lucky that everything is back in working order. It doesnt matter if the drug is out of your system - some people freak out and get obsessed and then the damage is done. Permanently. If you think you can't get an erection and worry about it too much you probably wont' get one.

I'm not sure how this makes me right AND wrong, your case pretty much illustrates what I said that surgery in a much, MUCH riskier option in the long run because whereas the side effects of surgery can be lifelong and potentially unrepairable, there exists no real evidence of Propecia causing permanent effects. Yes, you have people who are going to freak out and obsess over side effects and effect their libido due to their own anxiety about a physical problem that doesn't exist...but that is a different issue entirely and in my opinion can't really be pinned on Propecia itself. You had bad results from both surgical and medical and luckily, you were able to reverse the bad results from the medical treatments. Reversing the damage from your surgery will not be as easy and maybe not possible, but breakthroughs are occurring and I wish you well and hope that you eventually do get the results you're after.

[aim4hair]

there exists no real evidence of Propecia causing permanent effects.

What kind of evidence you need when the company itself admits the possibility of permanent side effects!!

Below is a quick look at the side effects from propecia site:

"In clinical studies for PROPECIA, a small number of men experienced certain sexual side effects, such as less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, or a decrease in the amount of semen. Each of these side effects occurred in less than 2% of men and went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them."

The above part is OK, since it mentions that sides wll go away once you quit the drug, but then comes the next paragraph:

"In general use, the following have been reported: breast tenderness and enlargement (tell your doctor about any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain, or nipple discharge); depression; decrease in sex drive that continued after stopping the medication; allergic reactions including rash, itching, hives, and swelling of the lips and face; problems with ejaculation that continued after stopping medication; testicular pain; difficulty in achieving an erection that continued after stopping the medication; male infertility and/or poor quality of semen; and, in rare cases, male breast cancer. Tell your doctor if you have any side effect that bothers you or that does not go away."