The Ironman Procedure

[Arashi]

No, I'm not aware.
If there are indeed so many as you pretend - come on, is it really so difficult for you to post the sources?
Seems it is ...

GC83UK, mine, Tobian, C5000, now yours and probably more (I haven't been following any foreign forums myself like you have been).
You know this better than anyone so I'm really not sure why you're asking ...

[Arashi]

But anyway, you're obviously not interested in the questions raised. So, good luck with your healing and although you're the most worst mannered person I have ever encountered on any internet board (seriously), I sincerely hope you'll have a nice result. Good luck !

[didi]

Arashi
i agree, these are some good questions, i told c5000 to ask about grafts breakdown but im not sure he did,
on hasci website Gho says 2.5 grafts on average, with that average theres no place for singles

[c5000]

Arashi
i agree, these are some good questions, i told c5000 to ask about grafts breakdown but im not sure he did,
on hasci website Gho says 2.5 grafts on average, with that average theres no place for singles

I asked the technician about 1s, 2s and 3s and he said my donor was really good so it was mainly 2s and 3s, I should maybe have pushed for an exact number.

I have to say that when you ask them questions they don't seem to like it. I asked how many failed extractions there were and he said "around 80" which I know for a fact is nonsense, because I was couting... the ratio of holes made to extractions taken was never much less than 2:1 for me as they admitted to having difficulties... I wasn't too happy about him saying only 80.

They have two clickers for counting: 1 counts the number of holes and the other counts the number of grafts taken, but only the one counting the number of grafts taken is ever displayed, I asked to see the one counting the total number of holes and that's when he just said "oh about 80".

I'm overall very happy with my procedure but trying to remain unbiased, there is definitely an element of secrecy around this whole procedure, especially this failed extraction thing.

What worries me also is that they left a technician to work on me who was apparantly using the needle at too deep a depth, is this likely to cause me scarring?

Again, I have to say I'm very pleased overall, but the customer service/communication could be a hell of a lot better.

[534623]

Hypotheticly if we knew that there were 500 3s,(33&#37 of extracted grafts(assuming you had 1500 transplanted) then you could just monitor donor area and it should regrow 33% 3s...

And now explain how exactly you would accomplish this.

An averarage donor area, and I'm talking about the REAL DONOR AREA (safety zone), contains anywhere around 12,000 and 16,000 follicular units/grafts. In may personal, specific case, pretty exactly 11,704 grafts.
FUE or HST grafts being harvested (if you allow the clinic to shave the whole head) from ALL OVER the safety zones, which contain all in all 11,704 grafts.

And now explain me, how do you will find the sites of extracted 3-hair grafts again, without marking them (with tattoos next to them or better encircling them etc) all these 500 3-hair grafts, spread all over the donor area, just to see how many of these extracted 3-hair grafts regenerated?

Everything is possible, if you pay the doctor for tattooing every 3-hair extraction site, immediatelly after extraction of a 3-hair graft, why not ...

Furthermore, not every 3-hair graft is a 3-hair graft as such, because many of them appear on the skin surface in different configurations - sometimes rather in a row, sometimes all 3 hairs somewhat too far appart from each other, so that a very small needle is unable to catch all hair shafts together.
Even with normal FUE, in such cases (ask FUE doctors!) the doctor has to use BIGGER extraction instruments, to catch such follicles completely INTACT. Doing this, creates on the other hand just bigger FUE scars/white dots.

[didi]

IM, you dont need tattoos to find 3 hair extraction sites.
What you do is simply observe certain area or few areas that have say 100 extractions, now if you know you had 500 3s or 33% ...these random observed areas should reflect that...

basically 33% of extraction sites shd grow back 3s,..its not rocket science, your case was good as you didnt have these 'failed' extractions if i rmbr rite, not many anyway

[Arashi]

I'm overall very happy with my procedure but trying to remain unbiased, there is definitely an element of secrecy around this whole procedure, especially this failed extraction thing.

I was overall happy too. But the mere fact that Gho seems to be the only clinic out there where they don't give you a breakdown of 1s, 2s and 3s is just suspcious, especially since people are reporting thin recipient.

But since Iron Man is unwilling to help out here, we'll have to wait for somebody else to clear this up.

And regarding the failed extraction thing, my main technician also was at about that 2:1 ratio too, but when she went for a break, another technician came in and the ratio dramatically fell to around 20:3. I hope she didn't do too much damage to my donor. When I later checked Gho's website, I saw that she was an *assistant* technician !! I wasn't too happy finding that out ... I mean I understand they need to teach others but when it can possibly do damage to the patient's donor AND you're paying a LOT of money, I feel they shouldn't let apprentices take over ...

[c5000]

I was overall happy too. But the mere fact that Gho seems to be the only clinic out there where they don't give you a breakdown of 1s, 2s and 3s is just suspcious, especially since people are reporting thin recipient.

But since Iron Man is unwilling to help out here, we'll have to wait for somebody else to clear this up.

And regarding the failed extraction thing, my main technician also was at about that 2:1 ratio too, but when she went for a break, another technician came in and the ratio dramatically fell to around 20:3. I hope she didn't do too much damage to my donor. When I later checked Gho's website, I saw that she was an *assistant* technician. I wasn't too happy finding that out ... I mean I understand they need to teach others but when it can possibly do damage to the patient's donor AND you're paying a LOT of money, I feel they shouldn't let apprentices take over ...

How did you find out that she was an assistant technician, can you send me a link to their staff details? I have a feeling that we had the same "assistant", although I don't really want to name her in public like this, she was very nice, she just struggled to extract my grafts.

Have you noticed any damage to your donor?

When I asked Gho about getting another procedure for my crown next year, he said "we will wait and see if you have any scarring first"... that didn't sound to good as normally he says there won't be any scarring.

[Arashi]

How did you find out that she was an assistant technician, can you send me a link to their staff details?

You can see it here: http://www.hasci.com/homepage.aspx

Out of respect for her I won't mention here name but the Maastricht clinic only has 2 ASSISTANT technicians ...

*EDIT* hyperlink doesn't work. Go to "institute" and then "who are we".

[didi]

it looks like Gho puts 1s 2s and 3s in the same partition of petri dish, am i rite?


if thats true it means he wouldnt himslelf know real breakdown, unless some separate counting is taking place which i doubt

[Arashi]

it looks like Gho puts 1s 2s and 3s in the same partition of petri dish, am i rite?

I think so. I only took a brief glance at the petri dish. It looked kind of bloody, didn't want to focus too much on it

[didi]

'When I asked Gho about getting another procedure for my crown next year, he said "we will wait and see if you have any scarring first"... that didn't sound to good as normally he says there won't be any scarring. '

not reassuring, thought no scarring is given...

[c5000]

You can see it here: http://www.hasci.com/homepage.aspx

Out of respect for her I won't mention here name but the Maastricht clinic only has 2 ASSISTANT technicians ...

*EDIT* hyperlink doesn't work. Go to "institute" and then "who are we".

Arashi, do you have an email address I can contact you on?

[Arashi]

Arashi, do you have an email address I can contact you on?

I'll send you a PM.

[Arashi]

did you get it ? I removed it from your wall again for privacy purposes