Gho's files patent for Hair multiplication

[cocacola]

@gc

Do you know approximately whats the area of your entire recipient?

[Arashi]

It is within the realm of possibility and reminds me of the day when plugs were used and no one bothered to try single hair placement for decades.

Acell has nothing to do with HST. HST is based upon the idea that if you'd split a FU, both halves would see themselves as 'damaged' and would use surrounding stem cells to 'repair' themselves et voila, 2 FU's created out of 1. This idea is not new. And it's not Gho's idea neither, it goes back way further. In fact, you're talking about Dr Woods in your last post, let me cite him cause he explained it very well:

Dr Bob Limmer was the guy who , back in the late 80s said that strips removed should be dissected into intact individual FOLLICULAR UNITS under stereoscopic control, ie magnification.

While struggling with my concept, the only doctor worth talking to was Dr Limmer. We first spoke in 1993. He thought my work was interesting , but impracticable due to the inevitable high transection rate. He thought it was of no practical significance. But I still called him from time to time to give him updates

The following year, he sent me his published paper. He implied that FUE would generate a majority of transections, and transections produce a grossly inferior yield

The idea that stem cells could make follicles magically multiply was a fascinating academic pursuit however

In his study, he took a completely bald guy, and placed transected follicles, at varying points along the follicle , into different areas.
And he reported his results , the same as I witnessed on countless occasions

YES, transected follicles, be they lateral or partially longitudinal can regenerate a terminal hair….too bad that the yield is very very very low. In my own observations since 1993, about 5% .
And Dr Limmer also observed that while regrowth can occur, the success rate is negligible and NOT viable .
The same holds for partially transected hair in the donor . Regrowth varies between zero and negligible

And later in that post he said:

What Dr Gho says in this “peer reviewed journal” is diametrically opposed and contrary to everything I have observed seen and studied over the past 20 years, and I am not alone.

Again, countless people tried it before Gho, they all failed. Then Gho publicized his 'magic success' in that Dutch peer reviewed journal (who NEVER verified the authenticity of it all, they just verified that he followed a scientific protocol, they NEVER checked the photo's, they NEVER asked for more info, so NOBODY has checked if it was true or correct, I think that's very important to realize here). He explained in that journal how he did it. Again, people tried it, EVERYBODY reported the same: it just does NOT work. It didnt 25 years ago and it doesnt now.

[35YrsAfter]

And you know what, we're never going to get that 50 graft test, Hasci screwed it up, but I also believe they don't trust people from the forums. I've pretty much heard from the horses mouth that they think whatever they do they won't be believed. I don't agree with that, but hey ho.

The fact they tried to do the test initially shows they actually believe in what they are doing and wanted to prove it, I just don't think they were prepared for the level of analysis, perhaps someone at Hasci took offense to that.

I understand you want to expose frauds etc, but I think this is totally different to the Nigam saga.

What I don't agree with is saying they can get 85% regen, but you know already.

The hair restoration industry of course has a history of deception, so I understand why people are skeptical and cynical. When I was around 27 I went to the big chair hair transplant company and agreed to their recommended course of hair restoration which included a scalp reduction and a great number of plugs. The hairline in particular stood out as unnatural. Ten years later I went back for a hairline refinement thinking surely they figured out how to place single hairs. I got more plugs on top of the old ones. I believe the doctor who did the "refinement" work advertises in the forums. As I grew older my donor thinned and the extraction sites began to show as I continued to lose more hair. Since my donor was shot, I searched the Internet to see if any doctor had ever tried using body hair for repair. FUE was ridiculed at that time because only Dr. Woods did it and there was secrecy surrounding his technique. So single hair placement, FUE and body hair have all been ridiculed. I have been the subject of body hair studies and have seen hair grow from extraction sites where ACell was applied. So giving the benefit of the doubt, Gho may be able to actually do what he claims to varying degrees. It is within the realm of possibility and reminds me of the day when plugs were used and no one bothered to try single hair placement for decades.

Chuck
Dr. Cole's office

[Arashi]

I think it's absolutely fine letting people know that they might get no regrowth or little regrowth but at the same time pointing out that's it's the only known scarless procedure faster healing times compared to other traditional hair transplants. Letting people know the pros and cons, nothing wrong with that.

And of course I agree with you on that ! HASCI in general is a fine clinic, I liked how they performed the treatment and I yet have to see someone with a horrible result from HASCI (unlike some Turkish clinics for example, who butchered up some of their patients let alone Nigam who almost killed a patient). I just really find it dispicable how they even now keep telling new clients that 85% regrowth fable.

[gc83uk]

I think it's absolutely fine letting people know that they might get no regrowth or little regrowth but at the same time pointing out that's it's the only known scarless procedure faster healing times compared to other traditional hair transplants. Letting people know the pros and cons, nothing wrong with that.

[Haircure]

Reach awareness: help people to realize that if they go to hasci because they believe in their regrowth stories, they most likely will be scammed.

I'm not going to sue them. It did cross my mind to contact the media, there's this Dutch show on fraudsters called "Tros Opgelicht", maybe HASCI would be a nice topic for them, but haven't contacted them yet.

Although I am not informed and experienced about this issue as much as some of the other guys here, I agree with Arashi that it's wrong to falsely advertise claims they cannot keep, especially when it involves such an expensive procedure.

I'm curious, do they have any refund policy if there is no regrowth?

[Arashi]

And more importantly how far do you want to take this? What's your objective?

Raise awareness: help people to realize that if they go to hasci because they believe in their regrowth stories, they most likely will be scammed.

I'm not going to sue them. It did cross my mind to contact the media, there's this Dutch show on fraudsters called "Tros Opgelicht", maybe HASCI would be a nice topic for them, but haven't contacted them yet.

[gc83uk]

And more importantly how far do you want to take this? What's your objective?

[Arashi]

hmm well I won't argue each and every point, because I'm sure on many points we already agree, however I don't think they deliberately screwed up the analysis. It would have been much easier to refuse to do the analysis at all. I think it's something else!

What else could it be ? Really ! Even if they were extremely dumb and ignorant: they had a pro photographer there the 2nd time ! They had all our guideliness up front, yet they messed up TWO times, even with pro photographer present ! What other explanation could there possibly be ?

3000 euros is maybe not enough to tempt them. If they contacted you tomorrow and said ok, 10,000euros and you can have your 50 graft test, would you do it?

Why ? I offered them 3000 euro's cause they once said the costs of a 50 graft test would be relatively a bit higher, because of fixed costs (eg, cost of their preservation medium). 3000 euro is WAY more than those costs could possibly be. Why would they agree to 10.000 euro if they refused 3000 euro ? This would have been FREE marketing, a FREE way to FINALLY prove their technology and they would even get paid 3000 euro too !! If they were honest, this would have been a dream come true ! There's only one possible explanation really, for refusing it: they were afraid to be exposed.

[gc83uk]

hmm well I won't argue each and every point, because I'm sure on many points we already agree, however I don't think they deliberately screwed up the analysis. It would have been much easier to refuse to do the analysis at all. I think it's something else!

3000 euros is maybe not enough to tempt them. If they contacted you tomorrow and said ok, 10,000euros and you can have your 50 graft test, would you do it?

I mean how far do you personally want to take this? What are you wanting them to do? Do you want to close them down?

They are not going to go public and admit any wrong doing, doing so would put them in a grave position, liable for all sorts!

And the 3 times thing, you know I've heard different things from different people at Hasci on a whole range of questions, I don't think that is automatically a fact. Afterall this is my 5th time and nobody has said anything to me.

[Arashi]

What has changed since then? There are probably better examples than the link I have posted there, but I couldn't believe that was the same Arashi

I remember coming to this forum to find out about a 'cutting edge' hair procedure cause I wanted to have something done. I quickly found the threads on HASCI with heavy fighting among forum members, there was one guy who called himself "Ironman" and he seemed 100% convinced HST worked as advertised I didnt know who to believe but I remember seeing his analysis on your first HST where he claimed 85% regrowth and I thought "WOW it works indeed !!!" Little did I know back then that the analysis was totally false, totally skewed by failed extractions and hairs growing back in smaller configurations. Anyway I was convinced. Then when I was at HASCI lying on their surgery table, listening to the 'clicks' (the counting of hairs) versus the number of drills, I figured WHAT THE F*CK, this guy Ironman never talked about failed extractions, this would have totally skewed the number and invalidates his research. After this, I was still thinking HST would work, but maybe just not up to the point of 85% regrowth.

The first moment of REAL doubt about HASCI came when I informed at HASCI about a 2nd procedure. They had told me my donor was above average and since I wasnt happy with the density in my recipient, I thought, letīs double the density there. HASCIīs response came to me as quite a shock: they advised me NOT to do it. I was really really amazed. Cause if HASCI worked as advertised, no even if it worked way worse than advertised, an 'above average donor' has WAY more than enough hair to give you full density on top. So that was the second, but this time a real big crack into my faith in HASCI. They said there wasnt enough hair in an 'above average' donor to get recipient upto a normal density. That's totally going against all of their claims. Then the evidence against HASCI just kept piling up:

* They agreed to that 50 graft test. Remember how we made guideliness to do it in such a way that they couldnt mess it up ? I was a bit reluctant to mail it to them, cause you know, most of it was quite trivial and they could take it as an offense, seen as questioning their ability to do scientific research. Kristel replied something like "Yeah you dont have to tell us how to do our work, we know". Thus really big was my amazement when they showed horrible useless photo's and went pretty much against all guideliness. When confronted with this major f*ck up, they agreed to a 2nd test, this time with professional photographers. So even bigger was my amazement when they showed horrible photo's AGAIN !!!!! How could this happen ? There was only one possible explanation: they did it on purpose. They didnt want to show us good photo's, they wanted to keep them to themselves and see first for themselves if it actually worked or not. Cause releasing good photo's to us would kill them in case it didnt work. So again, another huge crack into the whole hasci story
* Then that case of that Dutch singer. Remember how he went only 3 times to HASCI while he needed a LOT of more hair ? When asked, Kristel said 'yeah that's what we advise people in general, maximum 3 times HST'. That makes NO SENSE at all, cause the average patient could go over 20x times to hasci if HST really worked.
* Then we found out HASCI transplanted WAY less hair on average than other clinics. This explained a lot too
* Then I did my research on your case and it turned out regrowth was WAY lower than always claimed by hasci, possibly 0
* Then I contacted them to do a 50 graft test on myself, so we werent dependent on THEM, cause I would have everything in my own hands ! I figured, I'm going to offer them 3000 euro's to do it, cause i didnt want any excuses like 'yeah 50 graft test is very expensive for us to set up' and nonsense like that. We all remember how that turned out ... They refused to do it.
* Then I figured, what's left ? Where do their claims come from anyway ? And I found everything is based on that single ' peer reviewed scientific' publication they did. So I started researching into that. I saw that the photo's they publicized in that article were of such a lousy quality that they were impossible to verify. I then researched further and found out that the 'peer reviewers' only had access to that exact same article !! So they were never shown the original photo's. So they neither could have possibly verified if hasci's claims were true, cause the photos where just so lousy that you could impossibly deduce anything at all from them. So what do we have ? Yes, only THEIR claims. While EVERYTHING we know now, points against there claims.

Oh and maybe the biggest factor: they publicized exactly how their method works. However, even after all this time, NOBODY could reproduce the results HASCI claimed to have. That in itself is pretty much 100% proof it's all just BS.

[gc83uk]

And you know what, we're never going to get that 50 graft test, Hasci screwed it up, but I also believe they don't trust people from the forums. I've pretty much heard from the horses mouth that they think whatever they do they won't be believed. I don't agree with that, but hey ho.

The fact they tried to do the test initially shows they actually believe in what they are doing and wanted to prove it, I just don't think they were prepared for the level of analysis, perhaps someone at Hasci took offense to that.

I understand you want to expose frauds etc, but I think this is totally different to the Nigam saga.

What I don't agree with is saying they can get 85% regen, but you know already.

[gc83uk]

I could, but the photos are terrible when there is no flash, just from previous experience. It looks like I have a full head of hair usually, which I don't want to fool people into thinking so. I will have another go at some point, tbh I'm really disappointed with my new camera phone, it's meant to be a fkin upgrade lol

[gc83uk]

Yes you might have lost some grafts, but you know if you had done the same after an FUE and done a count, the same could have happened.

I'm sorry to say, but it does sound like you have a vendetta against Hasci now. That may not be the case, but it does come across that way.

Not so long ago your opinion seemed much more balanced:https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...t=14349&page=9
I found this when trying to find something from the Mwamba thing.

What has changed since then? There are probably better examples than the link I have posted there, but I couldn't believe that was the same Arashi

[Arashi]

BTW Gaz, one more thing then: I agree that your photo's were shot under unfavourable circumstances (= with flash). Could you maybe then shoot some photo's under normal daylight ? I think that would give a better impression of your current situation, agreed ?