Dr Nigam agrees to doubling slick NW6/NW7

[Arashi]

Dude if you believe thats "really" going to happen you'd believe anything... thats like China saying they are going to "come down on piracy"... or New Zealand saying "they are clean and green"...

If doubling works as Nigams says it does, we don't need HM anyway. He already succesfully cured hairloss in that case. And in case doubling does NOT work, who will ever believe Nigams again ?

[bananana]

Dude if you believe thats "really" going to happen you'd believe anything... thats like China saying they are going to "come down on piracy"... or New Zealand saying "they are clean and green"...

Whats with the tone?
I'm just friggin' asking.

Why would Nigam say that anyhow?

[Kiwi]

But remember, we have only 1 or 2 years before Indian Parliament also passes law regulating stem-cell research and therapy.


What does this really mean for us? They (the govt) could ban Dr Nigams procedures? He will have to move his clinic?

Dude if you believe thats "really" going to happen you'd believe anything... thats like China saying they are going to "come down on piracy"... or New Zealand saying "they are clean and green"...

[bananana]

But remember, we have only 1 or 2 years before Indian Parliament also passes law regulating stem-cell research and therapy.


What does this really mean for us? They (the govt) could ban Dr Nigams procedures? He will have to move his clinic?

[Arashi]

If he's splitting grafts then he won't even come close to a full restoration. That's the nice thing about a NW6/7->NW2 transformation, you can't fake it easily.

In this case, I'd take a hands-off approach. Dr. Nigam knows the requirements. We're asking him to restore a patient to the greatest extent possible in the shortest amount of time. Let's see what he comes up with and judge it from there.

In theory you're right. But I fully agree with Gaz that we need to cover all angles here. We need to get this right, for once and for all. So let's get some good donor pre-op photo's and we're assured that we can draw a final verdict.

[hellouser]

If he's splitting grafts then he won't even come close to a full restoration. That's the nice thing about a NW6/7->NW2 transformation, you can't fake it easily.

In this case, I'd take a hands-off approach. Dr. Nigam knows the requirements. We're asking him to restore a patient to the greatest extent possible in the shortest amount of time. Let's see what he comes up with and judge it from there.

Video.

Good luck finding a con artist to fake a video documentary of the before and after results. Almost impossible and even if, its not worthwhile doing so.

Therefor, I think there should be videos to go along the NW7 - NW2 transformation. Most (well, damn near all actually) cameras have video capability. No reason why video can't be done.

[JJJJrS]

I know what your saying, but we're just covering all angles here. It should also be noted that Nigam mentioned 4000-7000 grafts to be extracted from the donor. If these turn out to be split grafts and a 1 hair grows back instead of a 2 hair FU in the donor then we're not going to be looking for 4000 grafts missing in the donor, but the equivalent of 2000 grafts. Granted 2000 grafts missing in the donor of a NW7 should be visible you'd expect. But that isn't guaranteed, especially somebody with excellent donor to begin with. Close up photos would be needed in this situation.

I'm also totally against mixing invivo and invitro.

If he's splitting grafts then he won't even come close to a full restoration. That's the nice thing about a NW6/7->NW2 transformation, you can't fake it easily.

In this case, I'd take a hands-off approach. Dr. Nigam knows the requirements. We're asking him to restore a patient to the greatest extent possible in the shortest amount of time. Let's see what he comes up with and judge it from there.

[gc83uk]

If you want to analyse one area, that's fine. I just don't see the point of it.

This isn't a 1.5k procedure from HASCI. Nigam claims he's going to extract 5-7k grafts from a NW6-7, possibly multiple times. It will be completely obvious if there's scarring and donor regeneration. As long as the head is shaved and the pictures are reasonable, everything will be clear.

If this was a patch test, than yes, preop pictures and all that would be important. But it's not and Dr. Mwamba will be going there to verify that anyway. This is a huge procedure, mixing invivo/invitro. I would just focus on the main goal which is a NW6/7->NW2 transformation which can't be faked easily.

If you want to analyse things though and Dr. Nigam agrees, then go ahead but I think you'd just be wasting your time.

I know what your saying, but we're just covering all angles here. It should also be noted that Nigam mentioned 4000-7000 grafts to be extracted from the donor. If these turn out to be split grafts and a 1 hair grows back instead of a 2 hair FU in the donor then we're not going to be looking for 4000 grafts missing in the donor, but the equivalent of 2000 grafts. Granted 2000 grafts missing in the donor of a NW7 should be visible you'd expect. But that isn't guaranteed, especially somebody with excellent donor to begin with. Close up photos would be needed in this situation.

I'm also totally against mixing invivo and invitro.

[JJJJrS]

In a perfect world we shouldn't need to count. Agreed. Nigams should just get a NW7 and turn his scalp into a scalp full of hair with at least 30 grafts/cm2. If that would happen, we wouldn't even need any donor photo's at all ! Just the end result should tell us enough.

However this is Dr Nigams. I'm expecting it's not going to happen like this. I'm expecting an end result with coverage all over his head but it's just going to be rather thin. And then what ? Did the test fail or is this a success ? Sure we can ask Nigams to do another procedure but that's going to take at least another 9 months.

Ideally, Dr. Nigam would continue adding grafts until the donor is depleted or the NW2 transformation is complete. After that, everyone will be able to judge the results for themselves based on the coverage in the recipient, level of scarring and depletion in the donor, etc. I don't think the judgement will be too hard as long as he follows a couple of the key requirements.

[JJJJrS]

No offense but you must have misunderstood me. I even said you wouldn't need to do any counting.

You would only need to take a sample area and analyse 50-100 grafts, Nigam wouldn't even know which area we were picking until long after the procedure is done.

These sample areas just help to make the test conclusive imo. But as I said in the previous thread before approaching Nigam with my suggestion, it would be plain to see after TWO procedures and after extracting 10-12k FU's from the donor area whether this has worked or not. Even if they only partially regrown in the donor, it will be easy to see.

But having photos where we can analyse areas (more than 1 imo, 3 areas would be best) helps to make this conclusive.

No need to count shit.

If you want to analyse one area, that's fine. I just don't see the point of it.

This isn't a 1.5k procedure from HASCI. Nigam claims he's going to extract 5-7k grafts from a NW6-7, possibly multiple times. It will be completely obvious if there's scarring and donor regeneration. As long as the head is shaved and the pictures are reasonable, everything will be clear.

If this was a patch test, than yes, preop pictures and all that would be important. But it's not and Dr. Mwamba will be going there to verify that anyway. This is a huge procedure, mixing invivo/invitro. I would just focus on the main goal which is a NW6/7->NW2 transformation which can't be faked easily.

If you want to analyse things though and Dr. Nigam agrees, then go ahead but I think you'd just be wasting your time.

[FearTheLoss]

I think Mwamba visiting and overseeing this is the biggest things. If Mwamba starts to practice the doubling technique, and confirms it's legitimacy...it's real.

[Arashi]

OK, what do you think about Nigam wanting to try 3 different tests on 5 people. That's just going to get confusing. I think we suggest him to just choose 1, what you reckon?

Invivo, invitro and another which I can't remember name of

Yeah I suggest just to perform his best yielding procedure on all of the subjects.

[gc83uk]

I guess nobody knows the answers to those questions .. But I agree we should focus on the procedure with the best results only.

OK, what do you think about Nigam wanting to try 3 different tests on 5 people. That's just going to get confusing. I think we suggest him to just choose 1, what you reckon?

Invivo, invitro and another which I can't remember name of

[Arashi]

Yes I do agree, but tell me the answer to my previous question would you (if you know)

I guess nobody knows the answers to those questions .. But I agree we should focus on the procedure with the best results only.

[gc83uk]

I do agree with JJJJRs that we should keep the whole thing as simple as possible. Getting the subjects each time to the clinic when it's not necessary should be avoided. And maybe I'm missing something but to me it just seems a matter of comparing pre-op to the final post-op. And if the final post-op isn't good enough, we can ask to shoot more.

Yes I do agree, but tell me the answer to my previous question would you (if you know)