Poll: What do you think of Hasci and their HST?

[Arashi]

Right - and now try to define and/or describe "thinning" (with photos etc) concerning HST.

Yeah, that should be English. On the other hand, how should someone understand my request in English, when he don't even understand his own native language?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thinning

verb (used without object)
18.
to become thin or thinner; become reduced or diminished (often followed by down, out, off, etc.): The crowd is thinning out.

And again, what did I not understand ? And make your question more specific if you want an answer. I honestly don't see your point.

[534623]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thinning

verb (used without object)
18.
to become thin or thinner; become reduced or diminished (often followed by down, out, off, etc.): The crowd is thinning out.

And again, what did I not understand ? And make your question more specific if you want an answer. I honestly don't see your point.

So, concerning HST, "thinning" means the patient's crown is thinning out.

Damn ... sometimes I would like to have THE patience from Dr. Kristel van Herwijnen...on the other hand, actually no.

Ops, sorry, I just had "loud thoughts" ...

[Arashi]

So, concerning HST, "thinning" means the patient's crown is thinning out.

Damn ... sometimes I would like to have THE patience from Dr. Kristel van Herwijnen...on the other hand, actually no.

Ops, sorry, I just had "loud thoughts" ...

Again, I really don't know what you're on to. Crown ? Why do you mention the crown ? Or are you using that a donor ? http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...7&postcount=27

*EDIT* Hehe, I get it, you misread 'crown' when I said 'crowd'. No worries, can happen to the best, Ironman, we all make mistakes.

[Arashi]

Anyway, I'm out of there. I find hitting the gym just slightly more interesting than talking to you. Just SLIGHTLY, you know that

[534623]

I just don't understand how you can have 85% regeneration and then advise against more procedures after 5100 grafts. If you extract 5100 grafts and get 85% regeneration then that means that only 765 grafts did not regenerate...

That's basically CORRECT. And now try to imagine ...



...which effects your "only" can already have for a guy, with a rather lower/bad donor density.

By the way ...

This is gc's well-known Day-15 after photo (15 days after his 2nd HST) ...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/gc83uk-Day-15.jpg.jpg

... and this photo (same photo!) ...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/day-15-white-dots-FUE.jpg

... shows how his donor area would look like with normal FUE:
I simply made white dots into every regeneration site ...

Click into every photo, enlarge them and - compare!

[greatjob!]

well maybe they are just super conservative, because if Saunders were to get 20,000 grafts that would mean that 3000 grafts did not regenerate. There are tons of cases of people getting traditional fue in excess of 3000 grafts without significant donor thinning. I am really not trying to start a fight or anything, it is just confusing because it leads me to conclude that either they are super super conservative or that they really aren't getting the regeneration figures they claim.

[534623]

There are tons of cases of people getting traditional fue in excess of 3000 grafts without significant donor thinning.

Right - and now try to find good quality photos of these tons of cases, where you can see their scalps shaved down to the bone after having normal FUE's.

And after more than 10 years of FUE and so many FUE docs out there, how many good quality photos can you find by HT doctors of former FUE patients, when (their) patients come to them for a 2nd or 3rd procedure, and when they must shave their heads down again?

btw - can you define "donor thinning" and in which case?

There are lots of guys who report that doctors tell them, that they can't even move 1000 grafts from their donor areas. So can you define "donor thinning" for such cases?

[greatjob!]

when I talk about donor thinning I mean the point where too many grafts have been harvested from the donor zone and it presents the moth eaten look when the hair is grown out to around a two guard.

I won't argue the fact that with hst you can shave down to a 0 guard, something that you surely can't do with any tradition transplant. I just don't see the point in going super conservative in order to shave down to a 0 guard. The point of a hair transplant is to have hair.

My point is that yes if they moved 20,000 grafts with 85% donor regeneration and lost 3000 grafts the patient would probably not be able to shave down to a zero, but why would they need to because they would have a full head of hair. And with the hair grown out to anything above a 2 guard there wouldn't be any noticeable donor thinning for most patients with reasonable density. The fact that they are recommending against moving the maximum amount of grafts leads me to the conclusion that they are not getting 85% regeneration

My question is really simple actually. 85% donor regeneration should essentially be a cure for baldness limited only by your bank account. I am critical of Dr. Gho, but I also watch his work with great hope. But this thing with Dean Saunders being recommended not to have additional procedures after only 5100 grafts suggests that they are not delivering the goods on their 85% regeneration claims.

[534623]

My point is that yes if they moved 20,000 grafts with 85% donor regeneration...

Does it make sense to talk about 20,000 HST grafts at all, when 99.9% of the guys on these forums can't even afford a 1500 grafts HST procedure?

[greatjob!]

Does it make sense to talk about 20,000 HST grafts at all, when 99.9% of the guys on these forums can't even afford a 1500 grafts HST procedure?

I only use that as an example of what should be possible if they are truly achieving 85% regeneration. With 85% regeneration they should be able to move that amount of grafts without donor thinning, yet they are recommending Saunders to stop after 5100 grafts which makes me wonder if they are really getting the regeneration rate they claim.

[Arashi]

Does it make sense to talk about 20,000 HST grafts at all, when 99.9% of the guys on these forums can't even afford a 1500 grafts HST procedure?

Yeah it does. For example GC83UK, Caddarick and me, we all have the money. But this 'max 3 HST thing' is holding me back. Oh that and the fact that Kristel even adviced me NOT to thicken up my temples, cause I'd need the donor for later on when the rest of my scalp would thin. Combine that with the fact that HASCI said I have good donor ! Something is fishy here, everybody knows that (ok except IronMan). My theory is that donor regeneration is about 50%, that would make a LOT of sense and also would be pretty consistent with gc83uk's results (where we saw 65% regen, but excluding failed extractions)

It's a shame though we're still debating this, cause we still don't have the facts. Hopefully that's going to change with gc83uk's next surgery, where he's going to take photo's of every single graft on his scalp, so that should finally yield the info we all seek.

[534623]

Yeah it does. For example GC83UK, Caddarick and me, we all have the money. But this 'max 3 HST thing' is holding me back.

You should send Kristel an email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...


... until even you get it.

[Arashi]

You should send Kristel an email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...

...and another email ...


... until even you get it.

She adviced me not to get another HST to thicken up my temples, cause I simply don't have enough hairs in donor for it. She also said that my donor is (very) good. What else do you need to know ? It just doesn't add up, even you know it, but because HASCI somehow has become personal for you, you don't want to admit it.

[Arashi]

it is just confusing because it leads me to conclude that either they are super super conservative or that they really aren't getting the regeneration figures they claim.

These are indeed the only 2 possibilities. And in the case they're super super conservative, they're not only damaging their own business but are also not acting in the best interest of their customers (cause frankly most customers wouldn't mind sacrificing 2k hairs in donor IF they could get 13k hairs back in recipient for that).

[534623]

She adviced me not to get another HST to thicken up my temples, cause I simply don't have enough hairs in donor for it.

And that's the point where Dr. Nigam comes into play:


... because he (and only he!) can give you all the sickness (erm..thickness?) and density you want!