The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[JJJJrS]

Requirements for test:

- 50 grafts should be extracted from a small area (~3-5 cm^2) in the donor. These extracted grafts should include 1-hair, 2-hair, and 3-hair follicular units. At a minimum, five 3-hair units should be extracted, preferably more if possible.

- These 50 grafts should be implanted into a slick bald area, ~2 cm^2 in size. It is important to choose as slick bald of an area as possible to minimize any confusion between implanted and preexisting hairs.

- Both areas must be kept small to simplify the analysis and photo-taking process.

- High quality, zoomed-in photographs must be taken. It is important that these photos are clear enough that the characteristics of the individual hair units are evident (i.e., it is clear how many hairs are in each follicular unit). In other words the process of counting the hairs should be relatively easy. The more clear the photos are, the less that is left to interpretation. This is paramount for the procedure. For examples of good photos please refer to gc83uk or Iron_Man.

- While it is not absolutely necessary to mark the monitored donor and recipient areas, if it's possible, it would be preferred if these areas were marked with non-permanent tattoos. For example, maybe two or four small dots defining the boundaries can be marked.

- The following photos must be taken:
Monitored donor and recipient:
- Before the procedure
- Immediately after the procedure
- 2 days after the procedure
- 2 weeks after the procedure
- 1 month after the procedure
- 6 months after the procedure
- 12 months after the procedure

If possible, more photos can be taken (1 week, 3 months, 5 months etc.) but at a minimum, we should see the photos listed above. The patient must be willing to shave these small monitored areas each time the photos are taken.

A picture of the petri-dish immediately after the extractions must also be taken. In addition, a picture of the entire donor and recipient should be taken immediately after the procedure to confirm that no additional grafts were extracted or implanted.

[JJJJrS]

If anyone else has any additional suggestions, please feel free to add any.

Eventually Arashi can pass along the instructions. I think the ones I wrote above are clear enough and if HASCI follows them, the test will turn out very well.

[Arashi]

I'd personally suggest to go with 100 grafts. Still very manageable and statistically much more significant.

[Arashi]

And yeah, I'll forward your list. But really, the more I think about it, the less I feel like putting in any effort to make sure anybody is there during surgery, make photo's the 2nd day etc. There's no doubt in my mind that the people at HASCI are sincere. They're real doctors, with sworn oaths, in a Western civilized country. I'm just interested in the regrowth percentage.

To people like Didi who obviously don't trust HASCI I say: make sure you witness the surgery yourself. Kristel already told me that she'd have no problems if someone wanted to witness the surgery. And maybe she's willing to arrange for a meeting at day 2 and later. Who knows. I don't really care. Sorry Didi. If you want to have it done, put some effort in yourself.

[Arashi]

LOL, almost forgot about that, he didn't even want to post that donor picture eh. And that's the thing. First of all I'm arriving friday in the Netherlands, while the surgery is Wednesday. Of course I could ask them to do it a week later, they might do that. But secondly I'm staying with family who live 2 hours drive away from Maastricht, so that would be 4 hours in a car to be there during surgery. And then at day 2 and day 10 and what more. And for what ? To make Didi happy ? The guy who did absolutely NOTHING but complain and attack them with the most ridiculous questions and statements ? And even if I'd go through all the trouble of doing that I'm SURE he'd just find something new to complain about. He'd probably bring up that I'm not neutral, that I'm photoshopping the pictures and what's more. So what's the use anyway ?

So no, I wont do that, if Didi wants to do it or arrange for someone to do all that: perfect. If not: perfect too. Suit yourself, put in some effort yourself for once, to get things done.

All I'm interested in is the regrowth percentage and this we'll get from the test anyway.

[Dees Dab]

So the chances of extracting a 3 hair graft I assume would be very low in such a small test area? The test is for regeneration % only or also recipient yield?

Would be interesting if they could extract a triplet, have it regenerate a triplet and grow a triplet in recipient. Something Didi says is impossible to do by HASCI. That would be icing on the cake.

Maybe HASCI can prove him wrong.

[Arashi]

So the chances of extracting a 3 hair graft I assume would be very low in such a small test area?

It depends. Some people have a lot of triplets. From what I've seen here most people seem to have mainly singles and doubles. I have mainly singles and doubles myself but they managed to transplant a few triplets in my case. If you have extremely thick hair, like James has, then HASCI won't be able to transplant triplets since the drill is just too small. If you have normal hair, they don't have any problems. However like said, from what I've seen here it seems most people don't have many triplets anyway.

The test is for regeneration % only or also recipient yield?

Both.

Would be interesting if they could extract a triplet, have it regenerate a triplet and grow a triplet in recipient. Something Didi says is impossible to do by HASCI.

He'll just make up a new claim, don't you worry.

[didi]

http://www.clinicajimenezacosta.com/pdf/publicacion1.pdf

Objective:
To study the distribution of follicular units in the
human occipital (donor) scalp.
Methods:
Using digital photography, we counted in 50 patients
the hair density, follicular unit density, and the proportion
of 1-, 2-, and 3-hair units per square centimeter

In all patients,
the most common type of hair grouping was the 2-
hair follicular unit, followed by the 3-hair and 1-hair
unit.

In human scalp, the majority of the hair emerges as
2-hair follicular units. The second most common unit
is the 3-hair unit.


How come Gho patients end up with mostly singles when there are more tripletes than
1s?

Distribution of hst grafts should be 2s followed by 3s then 1s(without cherrypicking).....hasci patiens end up with 70% singles, and 30% doubles...


What you think arashi..are you surprised by number of 3s people have

[534623]

What you think arashi..

He is thinking the same:

Where the hell are YOUR OWN high quality donor area photos??
You know, those with "more tripletes than 1s" in your donor area...

[534623]

How come Gho patients end up with mostly singles when there are more tripletes than 1s?

Excuse me, but where is your proof for your ridiculous bold claim?

[didi]

I counted GCs recipient and came ith 1.35hairs/grafts(and I was generous)...sample size 20% of transplanted hairs..

other hasci patients also reported only singles, james bald another one where hasci wanst able to extract anything above 2....

[gc83uk]

I counted GCs recipient and came ith 1.35hairs/grafts(and I was generous)...sample size 20% of transplanted hairs..

other hasci patients also reported only singles, james bald another one where hasci wanst able to extract anything above 2....

Didi I've re done this again and found an average of 1.5 hairs.

I had to use 2 photos side by side....why? Because on some photos a hair appeared as 1 hair, when in fact it was actually 2 on another photo and sometimes a 3 hair grafts can look like a 2. So it's possible the average is in fact more than 1.5 and I probably need to use 3 photos to take the average over 1.5, but it's an absolutely ball ache doing it like this.

BTW the sample size was almost 400 grafts! Significantly higher than your sample.

The point is, some hairs might appear as 1 in any given photo, whereas it could in fact be a 2 hair graft.

[Arashi]

I counted GCs recipient and came ith 1.35hairs/grafts(and I was generous)...sample size 20% of transplanted hairs..

other hasci patients also reported only singles, james bald another one where hasci wanst able to extract anything above 2....

And like said, both GC, Ironman and me, we mostly have singles and doubles in our donor. Just look at the pictures. And then you're surprised how it's possible that we end up with mostly singles and doubles in recipient as well ? I do have some tripples in recipient by the way, but only a few, just like in my donor.

What you do, is count hairs/graft for a few patients here, only in recipient, you then compare it to some average you've heard of and then conclude that Gho can't do tripples. But of course this is a pretty dumb way of reasoning. What you SHOULD have done, is compare the hairs/graft in donor vs recipient for the SAME patient.

[didi]

Congratualtions GC you found 0.15 hairs more per graft than me... not bad for a fanboy..but not impressive either..

Im sure if you use 4 photos there will be plenty of triplets...

[gc83uk]

Congratualtions GC you found 0.15 hairs more per graft than me... not bad for a fanboy..but not impressive either..

Im sure if you use 4 photos there will be plenty of triplets...

Are you trying to mock me?