Histogen at the ISHRS conference

[garethbale]

Correct me if I am wrong...but histogen has already proved this product to be as affective or more affective than fin...they are just trying to improve the product in the phase III trials...plus there are no reported sides...I don't know why people are being so negative. This product can keep what people have plus regrow...so get a HT and use histogen's product and your golden for the rest of your life or until a cure comes along.

I'm not entirely sure of the implications of histogen on existing hair (ie whether it can retain it or not) and although the lighting in their photos wasn't very consistent, there is clear and visible regrowth at the temple areas in a number of the photos, the black person in particular. If it can be improved and can retain as well as regrow, its a massive step forward. That combined with a skilful FUE/HST could potentially produce an amazing result.

If the concept can be improved, I just hope we see this in the next couple of years. My fear is that this could take an age to arrive, as seems to be the case with new treatments.

[FearTheLoss]

Correct me if I am wrong...but histogen has already proved this product to be as affective or more affective than fin...they are just trying to improve the product in the phase III trials...plus there are no reported sides...I don't know why people are being so negative. This product can keep what people have plus regrow...so get a HT and use histogen's product and your golden for the rest of your life or until a cure comes along.

[Kiwi]

My optimism is based on the release of statistical results and the interview with Dr. Ziering on Spencer's show. Dr. Ziering gave a justification to why pictures are not so great, and I accept it based on my assumption that he would have no incentive lying and throwing garbage around. I think the statistical data is more significant that any picture at this point.

You also seem to refute their statistical data. Well I am perplexed, I was a math major and when someone tells me they achieved a statistically significant result it doesn't mean they are subjectively assigning significance to an event (like for instance "oh that was significant") but they are using hypothesis testing techniques that involve a level of conservativeness that are based on mathematical science. I am not sure you fully understand that from your post.

As to the "Histogen is way past the time where it would be obvious that this product works and is effective." part, well... I live in SD, have worked for an IT healthcare startup in its early stages (which by the way had its management very close to Histogen people), I have an uncle that founded and is CEO of a biotech startup (not so start up anymore after 10 years, but still looking for funding, testing product development, etc.), I also have friends that are PhD's or post graduate researchers at UCSD and other respectable institutions (all working in biotech research studies of course) and they have showed me how they do research in their labs and how long it takes to go anywhere in the field to one day mess up an experiment and lose months of work....

The point is, and I apologize if I sound arrogant, it doesn't sound like you understand how a biotech start up operates... the nature of their work is extremely complex and developing a working product from an initial concept may take years if not decades at times. Like I said, my uncle's company has been in business for 7 years, has raised 3 stages of financing, hires new people and expands its facility, but despite all this still doesn't have a product! But that is just how biotech works!

Not only do I find the notion of Histogen being slow refutable, but in the contrary I am even more excited because they are moving very fast for a start up in the biotech sector! Have you seen their timeline!

Going back to pharmaceutical product development, it is one thing to have a product that gives signs of benefits, it is completely different story to really understand how to use it.... it takes tons of tests and preparation and follow up tests years down the road... and financial resources... because biology and the human body are such complex fields of study, not to mention that if they rush into having a product and then something goes wrong near or after product release they will be crucified by their investors.

With all this in mind, yeah shit does happen and I guess there's a chance that Histogen will be the Enron of hair loss... and they have been openly and deliberately lying about their results to their investors... and all these reputable people that work for the company (check out who works for them, they seem to me like people who have already done well on their own...) might have just faked the numbers.... BUT in my opinion they are simply trying to optimize a concept they have shown to work so it can become a reliable, consistent product and they can make billions with it.

zomg! That's the best reply to 2020's sulking that I've ever read.

Thanks for taking the time to write that. It means a lot to me and gives me hope. As a small business owner I know exactly how long these things can take. I've been trying to launch a piece of software for over six years! And it's nowhere near as complex as anything biotech!!!

[Pate]

lolololololololololololololololololololol

Seriously man, I understand your pain but I think we are getting there.

Well we are not going backwards, that's for sure. We are only getting closer to an effective treatment. It's just a long, slow and painful road...

[Breaking Bald]

2020 Is totally right! If you donīt think so, you havenīt search a cure long enough!

I still after 6 years get my hope up sometimes but for no reason..... Scientist donīt even know what the reasons for hairloss are yet.....

lolololololololololololololololololololol

Seriously man, I understand your pain but I think we are getting there.

[FearTheLoss]

when is histogen supposed to post their next set of results? I was at a very respectable hair doctor the other day who said that histogen right now, according to what was presented at the meeting in the Bahamas, showing an alternative to fin but a little better...and they are only expecting the results to improve in the next trials..they have something that works, now they just are trying to make it work better...

[Thinning87]

That doesn't mean anything

[eqvist]

Ignore 2020, he's a sad little troll who loves feeding on negativity. Misery loves company you know.

2020 Is totally right! If you donīt think so, you havenīt search a cure long enough!

I still after 6 years get my hope up sometimes but for no reason..... Scientist donīt even know what the reasons for hairloss are yet.....

[Thinning87]

what specific did he say that made you so optimistic? Add "probably not" after every "could" "may" we think" "significant" from that interview and everything posted on their website...

Their pictures are poor and their data is inconsistent. Simply measuring hair growth is not enough. Fibrosis and Calcification are huge in those with significant balding. "growing hair" is not enough. After decades of studying this in rats, they still haven't realized that they're wasting time - YOU CANNOT simulate baldness on rats. Don't bother testing solutions in rats. It's that simple.

Histogen is way past the time where it would be obvious that this product works and is effective. I give 50% chance that this would even make it into the market...



at what point in that time have they ever said about medicine that future DOES NOT look promising? Future always look promising! It was like that 10 20 and 200 years ago yet here we are...

My optimism is based on the release of statistical results and the interview with Dr. Ziering on Spencer's show. Dr. Ziering gave a justification to why pictures are not so great, and I accept it based on my assumption that he would have no incentive lying and throwing garbage around. I think the statistical data is more significant that any picture at this point.

You also seem to refute their statistical data. Well I am perplexed, I was a math major and when someone tells me they achieved a statistically significant result it doesn't mean they are subjectively assigning significance to an event (like for instance "oh that was significant") but they are using hypothesis testing techniques that involve a level of conservativeness that are based on mathematical science. I am not sure you fully understand that from your post.

As to the "Histogen is way past the time where it would be obvious that this product works and is effective." part, well... I live in SD, have worked for an IT healthcare startup in its early stages (which by the way had its management very close to Histogen people), I have an uncle that founded and is CEO of a biotech startup (not so start up anymore after 10 years, but still looking for funding, testing product development, etc.), I also have friends that are PhD's or post graduate researchers at UCSD and other respectable institutions (all working in biotech research studies of course) and they have showed me how they do research in their labs and how long it takes to go anywhere in the field to one day mess up an experiment and lose months of work....

The point is, and I apologize if I sound arrogant, it doesn't sound like you understand how a biotech start up operates... the nature of their work is extremely complex and developing a working product from an initial concept may take years if not decades at times. Like I said, my uncle's company has been in business for 7 years, has raised 3 stages of financing, hires new people and expands its facility, but despite all this still doesn't have a product! But that is just how biotech works!

Not only do I find the notion of Histogen being slow refutable, but in the contrary I am even more excited because they are moving very fast for a start up in the biotech sector! Have you seen their timeline!

Going back to pharmaceutical product development, it is one thing to have a product that gives signs of benefits, it is completely different story to really understand how to use it.... it takes tons of tests and preparation and follow up tests years down the road... and financial resources... because biology and the human body are such complex fields of study, not to mention that if they rush into having a product and then something goes wrong near or after product release they will be crucified by their investors.

With all this in mind, yeah shit does happen and I guess there's a chance that Histogen will be the Enron of hair loss... and they have been openly and deliberately lying about their results to their investors... and all these reputable people that work for the company (check out who works for them, they seem to me like people who have already done well on their own...) might have just faked the numbers.... BUT in my opinion they are simply trying to optimize a concept they have shown to work so it can become a reliable, consistent product and they can make billions with it.

[Breaking Bald]

Ignore 2020, he's a sad little troll who loves feeding on negativity. Misery loves company you know.

[2020]

Well folks, why the heck are some of you so negative I think Histogen is going to be awesome. I read some stuff here in the previous pages and got worried after reading some of the things some of you posted but I have to say after hearing Spencer's episode with Dr. Ziering about Histogen (11/20/12 episode) I am even more faithful than before.

what specific did he say that made you so optimistic? Add "probably not" after every "could" "may" we think" "significant" from that interview and everything posted on their website...

Their pictures are poor and their data is inconsistent. Simply measuring hair growth is not enough. Fibrosis and Calcification are huge in those with significant balding. "growing hair" is not enough. After decades of studying this in rats, they still haven't realized that they're wasting time - YOU CANNOT simulate baldness on rats. Don't bother testing solutions in rats. It's that simple.

Histogen is way past the time where it would be obvious that this product works and is effective. I give 50% chance that this would even make it into the market...

The future is very promising hang in there guys! Cheers!

at what point in that time have they ever said about medicine that future DOES NOT look promising? Future always look promising! It was like that 10 20 and 200 years ago yet here we are...

[Thinning87]

Hi All

This is my first post on this forum although I have been following it for a long time (especially this section).

Well folks, why the heck are some of you so negative I think Histogen is going to be awesome. I read some stuff here in the previous pages and got worried after reading some of the things some of you posted but I have to say after hearing Spencer's episode with Dr. Ziering about Histogen (11/20/12 episode) I am even more faithful than before.

The bulk of it is that they have something that's working but they don't fully comprehend how to use it for best results. They are testing it on a larger scale now; but once they have more data and, more importantly, they have the ability to look at what happens to patients who were injected in the early trials, things are going to be a lot more clear.

Dr. Ziering said very good things about the technology and its results, and how it works on pretty much everyone to some extent, and even if it doesn't do miracles, it can make a hair transplant a lot better with a combination of techniques.

This is the best news ever! My father and other relatives affected by MPB would have seriously paid 50% of their income when they were my age 30 years ago to have what we have now.

The future is very promising hang in there guys! Cheers!

[Pate]

I have heard a lot about RU but dont think i have the balls or time to take that stuff. 2017 is actually pretty close, the way i think about it is the World Cup flies past and before you know its 4 years later and the next World Cup is starting. As you are NW5 have you considered the tranplant route yet or will you hold on for other options? Even though im only a 2.5 i can tell with my diffuse pattern im heading for NW6 so I am already thinking about future transplants (only once i get past 5).

I've thought a lot about a HT but I'm worried I won't have enough donor to get a natural look. Most of the NW5-6 transplants I see don't have good coverage at the back and don't look very natural until they get up to 7000+ grafts.

I personally would rather be bald than have a bad HT. There is a guy who works in my building who has tried to cover his slick bald NW6 with FUE and it looks terrible. There just isn't enough density and yet he's got a big bare patch at the back with serious donor depletion.

I'll consider a HT again if Histogen or Aderans can convert a decent amount of my thinning vellus back to terminal. Hopefully by the time you're at my stage you'll have an idea whether they can, so you can safely take the plunge!

[jman91]

I'm 31. Was NW3 until I was 28, started fin and within 6 months was a NW5. I have no idea whether fin was responsible for that or if it was just my time. I suspect fin accelerated my natural loss for a while as my body got used to the drug and upregulated androgen receptors. Eventually it stopped and fin has halted my loss since then except when I stop taking it for a month, which I've done twice and lost more hair both times.

I will be a slick bald NW6 when all is said and done, like my mother's father. Curretly I've got about 10% terminal hair left in my NW5 zone.

I used to use the Big 3, now I've dropped minox because its effects are pretty minor and I'm just trying to hang on to what I have until a stem cell based treatment comes out.

I'm also about to start RU, if it ever gets through customs. Apparently it's been shipped from the US so it should arrive soon.

I think Histogen and Aderans both have a marketable product that should be available around 2017. However neither of them are particularly good yet, and I wouldn't call either of them an effective treatment - just a more effective treatment than anything we have so far.

I am hopeful that if you get enough Histogen injections over a long enough period of time, most guys would be able to restore effectively full cosmetic density in parts of their scalp that have SOME terminal hair left.

But at this stage that's still a big unknown.

I have heard a lot about RU but dont think i have the balls or time to take that stuff. 2017 is actually pretty close, the way i think about it is the World Cup flies past and before you know its 4 years later and the next World Cup is starting. As you are NW5 have you considered the tranplant route yet or will you hold on for other options? Even though im only a 2.5 i can tell with my diffuse pattern im heading for NW6 so I am already thinking about future transplants (only once i get past 5).

[Pate]

whats ur NW history and regime? and out of interest when do you think histogen or any other will release a truly effective treatment?

I'm 31. Was NW3 until I was 28, started fin and within 6 months was a NW5. I have no idea whether fin was responsible for that or if it was just my time. I suspect fin accelerated my natural loss for a while as my body got used to the drug and upregulated androgen receptors. Eventually it stopped and fin has halted my loss since then except when I stop taking it for a month, which I've done twice and lost more hair both times.

I will be a slick bald NW6 when all is said and done, like my mother's father. Curretly I've got about 10% terminal hair left in my NW5 zone.

I used to use the Big 3, now I've dropped minox because its effects are pretty minor and I'm just trying to hang on to what I have until a stem cell based treatment comes out.

I'm also about to start RU, if it ever gets through customs. Apparently it's been shipped from the US so it should arrive soon.

I think Histogen and Aderans both have a marketable product that should be available around 2017. However neither of them are particularly good yet, and I wouldn't call either of them an effective treatment - just a more effective treatment than anything we have so far.

I am hopeful that if you get enough Histogen injections over a long enough period of time, most guys would be able to restore effectively full cosmetic density in parts of their scalp that have SOME terminal hair left.

But at this stage that's still a big unknown.