Histogen – TrichoScan analysis vs. side-by-side comparison

**534623** · 10-20-2012, 09:35 AM

On Thursday, May 10, 2012, Histogen presented the following during the 2012 annual SID meeting:

http://www.histogen.com/downloads/sid_2012_HSC_Final.pdf

I enlarged this pdf-file and simply took a screen shot of the before/after pics of trail subject “S2018” – here it is:

In the next step, I tried to count the follicular units (FU’s) within the analyzed area …

And finally, I did the following:

TrichoScan

Data

http://trichoscan.com/media/download/validation_trichoscan.pdf

TrichoScan is a computer-assisted method for determining hair growth parameters. Version 5 introduces hair detection using artificial intelligence.

However, conventional visual hair counts are still performed and although no side-by-side comparison is available, visual hair counts are defined as the most precise method of measurement.
In our view, this might be the case when only the number of hairs in a very
small scalp area is counted. However, a rather large scalp area (up to 2 cm²) with about 400 hairs (fig. 1) is nearly impossible to accurately count for total, terminal and vellus hairs, hair thickness and hair growth rate.

In fact, I simply enabled least a side-by-side FU comparison in this about 2 cm² area:

Originally posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

Histogen's HSC study showed a statistically significant increase in the number of terminal hairs and hair thickness at 12 weeks. At the five month timepoint there was a decrease in hairs in a number of patients, but a significant increase again at 12 months, with the number of new hairs again reaching statistical significance at one year. There were approximately 25 new hairs per 0.1cc injection and the treatment effect was seen within 2mm of the injection site.

The HSC works by stimulating stem cells in the dermal papilla of the hair follicle to grow new hairs. It also seems that stem cells in the scalp can be stimulated to grow into new hair follicles. This has been shown to be possible in the mouse model using the components that are part of HSC and so Histogen's trial really substantiates in patients with male pattern baldness what has been shown to be possible in mice for the past few years.

Doc Z

Within 2 mm of the injection site?
WHERE are the “approximately 25 new hairs per 0.1cc injection” in this area (S2018)?

… because I assume that Histogen didn’t use the “worst-case-subject pics” for a SID presentation.

**bigentries** · 10-20-2012, 12:32 PM

Are you sure you counted right?
I see hairs that lack a green dot in the two pictures

And what is your definition of A FU? Hairs that are together but seem to come from diferent places sometimes get two or three dots and other times just one

**garethbale** · 10-20-2012, 12:48 PM

You have WAY too much time on your hands...

**534623** · 10-20-2012, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by garethbale

You have WAY too much time on your hands...

Instead of, I should do - what exactly?

Reading thousand user-posts to find out whether or not something is working as claimed?

**534623** · 10-20-2012, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by bigentries

Are you sure you counted right?
I see hairs that lack a green dot in the two pictures

Correct, I forgot to mark a few hairs/FU's - in BOTH pics (before/after) ...

But it doesn't matter - that's the reason why I made this sign -> ~

Anyway, load the pic above down, and cover up my green dots with another color - and count the clicks/dots during making them again. Let me know YOUR numbers ... that's actually the INTENTION of this thread - namely, to review my results.

**hellouser** · 10-20-2012, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by 534623

Instead of, I should do - what exactly?

Get laid....

**bigentries** · 10-20-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by 534623

Correct, I forgot to mark a few hairs/FU's - in BOTH pics (before/after) ...

But it doesn't matter - that's the reason why I made this sign -> ~

Anyway, load the pic above down, and cover up my green dots with another color - and count the clicks/dots during making them again. Let me know YOUR numbers ... that's actually the INTENTION of this thread - namely, to review my results.

Dude chill out I'm not a scientist. I would not do it because I can't do it, I don't know what the definition of FU, I don't have the knowledge to do it right

I just pointed out some flaws in your analysis

**garethbale** · 10-20-2012, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by 534623

Instead of, I should do - what exactly?

Reading thousand user-posts to find out whether or not something is working as claimed?

Go out for a beer...chat to girls etc

**534623** · 10-20-2012, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by bigentries

Dude chill out I'm not a scientist.

But you're able to count, you know, 1, 2, 3 ...

Originally posted by bigentries

I don't know what the definition of FU

Follicular Unit - Plain Speak

**gutted** · 10-20-2012, 04:52 PM

bringing hairs out of dormancy with one injection is a big accomplishment and quite possible this is what histogen can do!

From the publication of recent results it seems like women (or those who have mpb under control via balanced hormones/cox 2) will have the best results from histogen.

this is what the shed rate(telogen) Vs Growth rate (anagen) is all about and why thinning(density loss) appears in MPB -> desynchronised follicular cycling making it appear like a treatment did nothing regrowth.

If it is true that the basline shows the same number of FU's as the 3 month image then this could explain why.

Anyway i still think histogen for some is a major step forward than daily use minoxidil at reactivating dormant follicles.

**534623** · 10-21-2012, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by 534623

Anyway, load the pic above down, and cover up my green dots with another color - and count the clicks/dots during making them again. Let me know YOUR numbers ... that's actually the INTENTION of this thread - namely, to review my results.

Okay – I just did it again …

The counting of the green dots is unchanged (that means, I counted basically correct in both pics), and in addition, I counted and added the “ignored” hairs/FU’s (RED dots) in both pics. As you can see, I can do and try what ever I want, but I still can’t find the “statistically significant increase in the number of terminal hairs and hair thickness at 12 weeks”.

http://www.histogen.com/downloads/si..._HSC_Final.pdf

A Phase I/II 55 patient trial with a similar protocol but with 8 injections of HSC and control at baseline, and a repeat dose at week 6, has reached the 12 week primary safety and efficacy time point.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01501617
A total of 8 injections (about 3mm apart) will be administered into one of the 2 randomized sites (left or right) of the subject's scalp. Six weeks after the Baseline injection, the same treatment site will receive a repeat dose (the same volume and number of injections as used in the baseline) with no crossover.

The 8 blue dots in my 1st pic above mark the (estimated) position of the injection sites in the analyzed area. Remember, this trail subject got –all in all- 16 injections into this area: 8 at baseline and 8 again after 6 weeks!

Questions:

1) Why disappeared so many complete follicular units or single hairs COMPLETELY (15-18-24-26-41-45-48-58-63-70-79-81)
in the 12 weeks pic at all, if the “hair stimulating complex” is working so great?

2) Why did so many hair become THINNER in the 12 weeks pic at all,
within such a appropriate period, if HSC should actually effectuate completely the contrary?

3) Why did they inject the stuff in a completely NORMAL (hairy) cycling (anagen-catagen-telogen-anagen etc) area at all?

TrichoScan analyzed results of trail subject S2018:

Personally, I have no further comments, so at least ...
... here is what Mr. Tom Hanks is thinking about these investigated data:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjakaPkXghk

**clarence** · 10-21-2012, 04:19 AM

He needs to get laid......

but he is right.

**neversaynever** · 10-21-2012, 05:14 AM

They photos provided by Histogen are poor. They're dishing out all this amazing stats but the pictures show nothing like what they are claiming. Whats worrying is that surely they would use their best before / after picture to show obvious improvement?

They've recently updated everyone about their ever improving injections, but there is no photo evidence. I would have thought it would bring in investors aswell.

"with subjects age 40-59 seeing cosmetically significant results beginning at 12 weeks, including a mean increase of 39% in terminal hairs and 19.4% in total hair count in this age group in the current trial"

39% would be quite noticable, even without counting hairs. Prove it histogen! I suspecting they are distorting things to pull in the money. Lets hope they show us some impressive photos soon.

**Desmond84** · 10-21-2012, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by neversaynever

They photos provided by Histogen are poor. They're dishing out all this amazing stats but the pictures show nothing like what they are claiming. Whats worrying is that surely they would use their best before / after picture to show obvious improvement?

They've recently updated everyone about their ever improving injections, but there is no photo evidence. I would have thought it would bring in investors aswell.

"with subjects age 40-59 seeing cosmetically significant results beginning at 12 weeks, including a mean increase of 39% in terminal hairs and 19.4% in total hair count in this age group in the current trial"

39% would be quite noticable, even without counting hairs. Prove it histogen! I suspecting they are distorting things to pull in the money. Lets hope they show us some impressive photos soon.

The problem is this was a Phase I study with a 2cm2 treatment area, making it very difficult to provide a decent macro photo.

We have to wait till Phase II when they're injecting 200-300 injections into the entire scalp and then wait for a 6 month update. My guess is by October 2013 we will know how far they can go with this treatment.

Another issue I was thinking about is Minoxidil fails to maintain efficacy after a few years. How would Histogen be different, since we don't address the DHT issue? I guess only time will tell, as it did with Minoxidil.

I really hope Aderans also releases some positive results

that way we can all go nuts in world cup 2014 knowing a cure is just around the corner!

Histogen – TrichoScan analysis vs. side-by-side comparison

Histogen – TrichoScan analysis vs. side-by-side comparison

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