Cetirizine

[rdawg]

Does any body know how bad the shed is on this treatment?

Noones deep enough to know and if it's similar to other products it will vary from person to person.

But In general (other products i.e fin) i've never seen a person have a bald spot from a shed, you may thin out a bit but it's usually only for a few weeks.

[goingquick]

I'm pretty skeptical about this doing anything, but it's so cheap the only thing that's been keeping me from trying it is inconvenience. Some questions:

- Is it necessary to apply the cetrizine topical twice a day?

- Is the ppg really necessary? I used to use liquid minoxidil and found it irritating, I think because of the ppg (I use minox foam now with no irritating side effects).

- I'm thinking about dropping my night time foam application, and replacing it with a watered down minoxidil (5% minox watered down to 2.5%) and putting cetirizine in that--would that work?

Thanks for any help!

[Kirby_]

My thoughts...
* I think at this point it's quite likely that there's a synergistic effect between topical cetirizine and minox, with the later really required. However, that's nowhere near proven.
* if nothing else this shows the huge potential for topical PGD2 blocking. Remember that cetirizine is only weak for that function and isn't even a CRTH2 antagonist!
* bizarrely, there's more before/after photos of topical cetirizine use than there are for a whole host of experimental treatments, or over-the-counter stuff like Neogenic. (Actually the fact that there are any before/after user photographs immediately makes this remarkable! With so many experimental treatments there's literally none, at least on mainstream forums.)

[thechamp]

When starting treatment

Why don't we make a shampoo out of Zyrtec too it couldn't Hert?

[Pate]

I'm pretty skeptical about this doing anything, but it's so cheap the only thing that's been keeping me from trying it is inconvenience. Some questions:

- Is it necessary to apply the cetrizine topical twice a day?

- Is the ppg really necessary? I used to use liquid minoxidil and found it irritating, I think because of the ppg (I use minox foam now with no irritating side effects).

- I'm thinking about dropping my night time foam application, and replacing it with a watered down minoxidil (5% minox watered down to 2.5%) and putting cetirizine in that--would that work?

Thanks for any help!

Nobody knows yet. We don't know whether once or twice a day is better, we don't know whether PG is really necessary (though I suspect not since cetirizine is so water-soluble), we don't know what dose we need, and we don't know whether it can be put into minox or not.

Most guys seem to be applying the equivalent of 10mg once a day, some are 10mg twice a day. Some are using minox, some aren't.

So assuming you're happy to take the risks from trying a product that hasn't been proven safe in this application, jump on board and give it a go. You can test the path of putting cet in minox - just make sure you extract the cet in demineralised water before you combine it, if you just crush up pills and put them in minox you will get all the residue from the inerts in there.

[casperz]

Hey guys, I'm casperz from the *** forum that started the thread
on Cetrizine. One of the users here asked me to update here as well.

I've read through the last few pages and I wanted to respond to a few things.

Speaking for myself this is absolutely not a placebo affect. I've been on forums for many
years and I've tried a lot of things to regrow hair. I had some really good results with what I call
KSR. Basically it was the big3 with everything else known to grow hair all at the same time. I
reached the pinnacle around 2009 and since then have lost enthusiasm and lost most of the
gains. This is all documented with pictures on ***. The set of four pictures was where I started
in 2007 and the last one is Mar 2009. The bigger picture is from Sept of this year when I
started Cet. I had stopped all other treatments except Minox in Feb of 2012. Naturally without
Finasteride blocking DHT I regressed quite a bit. I'm still not where i was in 2007 but it's
pretty bad.

So with all that said I know this is not placebo effect. This is real regrowth in areas
that have been slick for years. I'm as skeptical as any of you and I'm telling everyone
to hold off on their excitement but with the results I'm seeing in my scalp and others Cetrizine
seems to be very effective.

As far as I know this was started by some German guys and they are about three months
ahead of me. I would guess that at the 6 month mark we will have some good results to
show. The German guys get there around Jan and I get there March 1 2013.

The last close up I'll post today is from this week. These hairs are near where my hairline was
in my teens and has been bald for at least 20 years. If you look closely you can see where the
ends of the hair are vellus and have gotten darker and thicker at the base. This is happening
all over my scalp.

My hope is that this will work well until the real PGD2 treatments are released.

I'll update as things change and I'll be glad to answer any questions.

Summary of pics:
Picture 1: 2007-2009 (Started treatments for first time in 2007)
Picture 2: Start of Cet Sept 2012 (no fin since Feb 2012)
Picture 3: closeup of new hairs
Picture 4: 60 days on Cet. (I'll take better overall pics at 90 days, around Dec 1st).

[Pate]

My thoughts...
* I think at this point it's quite likely that there's a synergistic effect between topical cetirizine and minox, with the later really required. However, that's nowhere near proven.
* if nothing else this shows the huge potential for topical PGD2 blocking. Remember that cetirizine is only weak for that function and isn't even a CRTH2 antagonist!
* bizarrely, there's more before/after photos of topical cetirizine use than there are for a whole host of experimental treatments, or over-the-counter stuff like Neogenic. (Actually the fact that there are any before/after user photographs immediately makes this remarkable! With so many experimental treatments there's literally none, at least on mainstream forums.)

1. I agree, and the interesting thing is that bimatoprost should be a much more potent PGE stimulator so the cet/bim combination could be even more effective than cet/minox.

2. Exactly. If these results we're seeing on the other forums can be repeated, the dedicated PGD2 inhibitors should blow them away.

3. Yep, and not only more photos but pretty unambiguous photos. You can't claim it's a case of different lighting or angles. This stuff really does appear to have regrown terminal hair at the hairline - the holy grail of hair loss science. The guys who have been urging caution are 100% right of course, and we have no conclusive evidence other than a handful of photos, but it's definitely worth investigating.

[Pate]

Hi casperz, thanks very much for dropping by - it is much appreciated!

I will be starting cet tomorrow. Could you tell us how you prepared your cet, and how much you are applying?

[casperz]

Hi casperz, thanks very much for dropping by - it is much appreciated!

I will be starting cet tomorrow. Could you tell us how you prepared your cet, and how much you are applying?

Glad to do it, I'm as excited about this as everyone else.

Everyone seems to be mixing it a little different. I was in such a rush to start after seeing some of the German guys pictures that I just crushed the Cet and added the power and tap water to an old minox bottle. I used 600mg of Cet (60 10mg tablets) to 60ml of tap water. I don't even filter out
the fillers, I just draw off the top. It starts to make your hair sticky the closer you get to the bottom of the bottle. I have gone through 2 bottles mixed like that and I'm about to make my third this weekend. This time I plan to use 151 or 190 proof grain alcohol(everclear), PG and water. I'm also planning on doubling the Cet to 1.2g to 60ml of liquid. If you want to use what I've been using for the past 2 months use Cet and water. I apply 1ml morning and night and follow up with minox after it dries a little.

I should have mentioned this in my original post. Expect to have the worst shed of your life when you start Cet. Mine lasted about 3 weeks but since then it has completely stopped. I've been used to seeing 10 to 20 hairs per day in my sink since about February when I stopped Fin. I saw many more than that the first 3 weeks of Cet but since then it's rare that I see even a single hair.

[casperz]

1. I agree, and the interesting thing is that bimatoprost should be a much more potent PGE stimulator so the cet/bim combination could be even more effective than cet/minox.

Some of the German forum guys are trying that combination. No results yet.

[Pate]

Glad to do it, I'm as excited about this as everyone else.

Everyone seems to be mixing it a little different. I was in such a rush to start after seeing some of the German guys pictures that I just crushed the Cet and added the power and tap water to an old minox bottle. I used 600mg of Cet (60 10mg tablets) to 60ml of tap water. I don't even filter out
the fillers, I just draw off the top. It starts to make your hair sticky the closer you get to the bottom of the bottle. I have gone through 2 bottles mixed like that and I'm about to make my third this weekend. This time I plan to use 151 or 190 proof grain alcohol(everclear), PG and water. I'm also planning on doubling the Cet to 1.2g to 60ml of liquid. If you want to use what I've been using for the past 2 months use Cet and water. I apply 1ml morning and night and follow up with minox after it dries a little.

I should have mentioned this in my original post. Expect to have the worst shed of your life when you start Cet. Mine lasted about 3 weeks but since then it has completely stopped. I've been used to seeing 10 to 20 hairs per day in my sink since about February when I stopped Fin. I saw many more than that the first 3 weeks of Cet but since then it's rare that I see even a single hair.

Okay so you're effectively using 20mg/day currently and about to upgrade to 40?

[thechamp]

Cet

There must be a more powerfull over the counter blocker than cet which would work even better ?

[Pate]

Okay, so this is the official launch of Pate's Phase II cetirizine trial. Pate skipped pre-clinical and Phase I because damn the torpedos, that's just how Pate rolls!

But seriously - I am extremely confident from reading up on cetirizine's safety profile that at the sort of doses we are using here, to use it topically for a few months is well and truly safe. I will report any systemic effects or sides I encounter.

The formulation is:

62 x 10mg Zyrtec tablets crushed up in 60mL of demineralised water (the 2 extras are to account for losses)

I will apply 0.5mL once daily to the right temple only, which is comletely bald in a NW3 pattern (the rest of my hair is thinning heavily in a NW6 pattern). The left temple will be control (unless I start sprouting new terminal hairs in which case I'll even it out so I don't look funny) This is 5mg total cet per day - even if the absorption systemically is 100%, it's still equivalent to only half a Zyrtec per day.

I will update here every month. If I see growth I will take photographs. If not I won't bother. If I see no growth whatsoever by 3 months, I will consider upping the dose and/or frequency and/or adding minox.

This is a weaker dose than casperz is using and there is no minox, so if it doesn't work, don't write off cet or PGD2 inhibitors entirely. I just want to start with a low dose.

I am also taking 1mg fin per day and using 2% Nizoral 2-3 times per week.

So here goes. Wish me luck!

[Conpecia]

good luck, pate! i'm gonna be right behind you in a couple weeks.

one favor, please update more frequently if you experience significant changes early, i.e. shedding absolutely stops, tons of vellus hairs start getting longer, or lots of hairs start turning terminal. you don't have to post pics, just a line or two would be great to let us know you're seeing comparable results to casperz and the others early on. i'd really appreciate that, and i'm sure others would too!

[casperz]

Okay so you're effectively using 20mg/day currently and about to upgrade to 40?

Correct. If my calculations are correct I'll be going from a 1% solution to 2%. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I used .6g / 60ml = .01% and 1.2g / 60ml = .02%?