Equol

[neversaynever]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15067102/

Studying relating equol producers to prostate cancer. These results suggest that the ability of producing equol or equol itself is closely related to the lower incidence of prostate cancer. The results also suggest that a diet based on soybean isoflavones will be useful in preventing prostate cancer.

Given that fin was designed for exactly that, means that equol can do the exactly the same thing. Its just a question of dosage and sides.

[neversaynever]

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

That snippet doesnt tell the full story. First of, 18 of the 28 people were equol producers, 10 were not. Also, im not sure what a significant decrease is. Here are the figures from that study...

Estradiol (pg ml−1) Baseline: 25.0±5.6 3 months later: 25.2±6.5
SHBG (nmol l−1) Baseline: 52.2±19.8 3 months later: 61.2±19.9
DHT (ng ml−1) Baseline: 0.96±0.27 3 months later: 0.79±0.23
Free testosterone (pg ml−1) Baseline: 74.9±3.5 3 Months: 70.9±11.2
Total testosterone (pg ml−1) Baseline: 541.0±125.0 3 Months: 576.0±135.0

Heres a more detailed results table of levels for both non equol and equol producers in that study...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834330/table/tbl4/

[BaldinLikeBaldwin]

you forgot about testosterone which fin definitely affects while equol does not

how about this study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19597532

"The serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin significantly increased, and the serum levels of free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) decreased significantly after 3-month supplementation."

[Jasari]

you forgot about testosterone which fin definitely affects while equol does not

But its still lowering DHT regardless of how.

[Jasari]

where are your sources?

do you really think this medicine would exist for androgenic alopecia if DHT was vital for muscle growth etc

^Yes because there is currently no cure to hairloss and the majority will take something regardless of other effects. In saying this I didn't say that you cannot gain muscle without DHT, I stated that DHT is important for muscle growth. DHT is active in the CNS, which is pivotel in increasing strength.

Testosterone works with DHT to make you stronger and bigger. To get stronger, you must either (1) increase CNS efficiency (get more efficient with the muscle structure you already have), (2) add more muscle tissue, or (3) some combination. Building additional muscle tissue is an expensive metabolic process. Therefore, the body would first prefer to increase CNS efficiency before being forced to add additional muscle. This is often why strength increases rapidly as a beginner, but muscle increases are slower.

Having optimum DHT will help you reach your CNS efficiency ceilings a lot faster which is obviously beneficial for developing strength and power; Cornerstones of athleticism. With lower levels of DHT in the body there is no scientific explanation to rationalize why performance would not decrease.

A good article on DHT: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

[2020]

There is no doubt the body requires DHT otherwise it wouldn't produce it. DHT is the most anabolic hormone in the body so it definately affects muscle growth and development aswell.

you forgot about testosterone which fin definitely affects while equol does not

[BaldinLikeBaldwin]

There is no doubt the body requires DHT otherwise it wouldn't produce it. DHT is the most anabolic hormone in the body so it definately affects muscle growth and development aswell.

where are your sources?

do you really think this medicine would exist for androgenic alopecia if DHT was vital for muscle growth etc

[gutted]

there is no doubt dht and androgens are needed. what is NOT needed is excess amounts of this hormone or the excess amounts of the enzymes that create this hormone.

The key is maintaing a healthy equilibrium between these hormones.

[Jasari]

There is no doubt the body requires DHT otherwise it wouldn't produce it. DHT is the most anabolic hormone in the body so it definately affects muscle growth and development aswell.

[garethbale]

Where can you buy equol? How do you get hold of it?

[yeahyeahyeah]

Actually, from what I've read, noone really knows fully DHTs connection with libido. There are guys who have a increased drive on fin. Some guys with low drive. Many are not effected sexually by reducing their DHT.

I believe the hormone balance (which varies greatly from person to person) is far too complicated to make a generalisation.

A person with natively low DHT levels might see more side effects on fin than guys with higher DHT levels. Guys with high estrogen levels might see more sides than guys with low levels, as DHT combats estrogen.

Equol also has other positive health benefits, quite a few actually. So the question is, if equol can be as effective as fin in reducing DHT...which would you prefer to use?

Blocking 5a (fin) effects other hormones, not just DHT. I think its fair to say that DHT is not the primary contributor to sex drive, there are other things at play. Obvious evidence for this is guys that are on fin, who see no decrease in sex drive.

Equol is potentially the only treatment that effects DHT only.

I really wish people would hurry up and try this shit. If it works - I will buy it. Rather then stating opinions, which HELPS nobody!

[neversaynever]

DHT has strong positive effects on the central nervous system and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress. It also ensures proper libido.
Regardless of the fact that S-Equol binds to DHT it still results in less DHT in the body. It sucks that we have hairloss and that we know DHT is a primary contributor but it doesnt change the fact that DHT plays an important role in the body. The human body doesn't contain androgens and hormones just for kicks, they serve a purpose.

Actually, from what I've read, noone really knows fully DHTs connection with libido. There are guys who have a increased drive on fin. Some guys with low drive. Many are not effected sexually by reducing their DHT.

I believe the hormone balance (which varies greatly from person to person) is far too complicated to make a generalisation.

A person with natively low DHT levels might see more side effects on fin than guys with higher DHT levels. Guys with high estrogen levels might see more sides than guys with low levels, as DHT combats estrogen.

Equol also has other positive health benefits, quite a few actually. So the question is, if equol can be as effective as fin in reducing DHT...which would you prefer to use?

Blocking 5a (fin) effects other hormones, not just DHT. I think its fair to say that DHT is not the primary contributor to sex drive, there are other things at play. Obvious evidence for this is guys that are on fin, who see no decrease in sex drive.

Equol is potentially the only treatment that effects DHT only.

[Jasari]

DHT has strong positive effects on the central nervous system and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress. It also ensures proper libido.
Regardless of the fact that S-Equol binds to DHT it still results in less DHT in the body. It sucks that we have hairloss and that we know DHT is a primary contributor but it doesnt change the fact that DHT plays an important role in the body. The human body doesn't contain androgens and hormones just for kicks, they serve a purpose.

[jpm]

equol could be fin replacement and better!

its frustrating that we have this drug but can't get it (in sufficient quantities) to be effective. Is anyone using the 10mg a day from folexen?

[neversaynever]

Learning more and more about the soy myth!

First of all. It reduces DHT WITHOUT A DOUBT. So of course it can help reduce, slow down, stop the balding process. The question arises of dosage...

As for side effects, my big concern is the reputation that soy products increase estrogen levels. Indeed equol binds to an estrogen receptor..BUT

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17585029

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/soy-protein-isolate-reduces-dht-in.html

I found more, that I didnt bookmark. It seems there is a big potential that equol affects only DHT, with minimal effects on T levels and other things. Its claimed that equol does not change the expression of estrogen receptor beta. Possibly a slight rise in estradol levels. Im not reading anything that scares me here...

"Serum DHT was significantly reduced following the consumption of both a low-isoflavone and high-isoflavone soy protein isolate compared to a milk protein isolate. The reductions were 9.4% and 15%, respectively. The DHT/testosterone ratio was also decreased by 9.0% and 14%, respectively.

The reduction in the DHT/testosterone ratio suggests an inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase. However, 3-alpha-AG, a marker of 5-alpha-reductase activity, was not significantly affected. Levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) were also not significantly different between the diets"

Opinions?