Equol

**yeahyeahyeah** · 07-21-2012, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by neversaynever

yea ok, will do.

Anyone know what kind of reduction in DHT would equal 1mg fin?

Thanks.

What I dont understand - we are lowering DHT, just via a different mechanism.

How is this any different to fin?

**neversaynever** · 07-21-2012, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah

Thanks.

What I dont understand - we are lowering DHT, just via a different mechanism.

How is this any different to fin?

1. The body needs to convert T to DHT. its an important function. Blocking the bodies ability to do this can cause havoc in the hormone feedback loop. T levels then rise. Equol allows this conversion, but handcuffs just dht. So thats one problem eliminated.

2. the 5ar that fin blocks is responsible for more than just T to DHT conversion. Amazingly, we still dont know fully what 5ar is doing in terms of hormones. There is plenty of evidence to suggest it doesnt exist to just convert T to DHT. If this is the case, then equol would have massive benefits over fin.

People equate all of fins side effects to DHT. There is far more at play here. Including sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG is regulated by the levels of many hormones, and its important that it retains a good ratio to T levels. When T rises, SH

I dont think its fair to say that equol will have zero side effects. But so far, from the information at hand, it seems a FAR safer proposition than fin or dut.

**2020** · 07-21-2012, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by neversaynever

Maybe companies dont see it as 'worth doing' considering it wont be more effective than fin.

ha... that's the thing - it's DOSE DEPENDENT. the more you take, the more DHT it binds to. I'm sure there exists a dose where it would block 100% of DHT.
Can you say the same about fin or dut?

Big Pharma should be interested in this...

**NeedHairASAP** · 07-21-2012, 10:50 AM

Hey whats up... just wondering if anyone has had any results from this.... or any of the other chemicals you guys sit around speculating about for months and months and months, yet have not one picture of success.....other than the guido guy who may or may not have had success. his success depends which pictures you look at...

im just tired of these research chemical threads that never have ANY pictures to prove anything.. just endless back and for ranting.

**PatientlyWaiting** · 07-21-2012, 11:11 AM

Once again, just like TRX2, no before and after pictures, just a whole lot of articles and promises. But no results. And people still buy it. You guys are amazing.

Hey why don't you guys also try Procerin while you're at it? Lol.

http://www.amazon.com/Procerin-Tablets-Supplement-bottles-tablets/dp/B000F49F7U

Ingredients
Saw Palmetto Berries, Gotu Kola, Nettles, Magnesium, Zinc Sulfate, Eleuthero Root, Vitamin B-6, Pumpkin Seed Meal, and Muira Puma Root.

**PatientlyWaiting** · 07-21-2012, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by NeedHairASAP

Hey whats up... just wondering if anyone has had any results from this.... or any of the other chemicals you guys sit around speculating about for months and months and months, yet have not one picture of success.....other than the guido guy who may or may not have had success. his success depends which pictures you look at...

im just tired of these research chemical threads that never have ANY pictures to prove anything.. just endless back and for ranting.

My thoughts exactly. The problem is, they just buy this stuff without even seeing if it works. A bunch of scientists say it works, explain the "science" behind it, and that's it, hair loss sufferers buy it. It's sad. Look at the price on that thing too, it's a scam. Some dude trying to get as much money as possible, and go on a permanent vacation.

Closest cure for hair loss right now? Finasteride, Minoxidil, Hair Transplant.

**yeahyeahyeah** · 07-21-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by NeedHairASAP

Hey whats up... just wondering if anyone has had any results from this.... or any of the other chemicals you guys sit around speculating about for months and months and months, yet have not one picture of success.....other than the guido guy who may or may not have had success. his success depends which pictures you look at...

im just tired of these research chemical threads that never have ANY pictures to prove anything.. just endless back and for ranting.

Well if there is any consolation.
Equol has been proven to lower DHT clinically.

Problem with this product is that it is too new.

**2020** · 07-21-2012, 12:23 PM

it binds to DHT without any side effects as proven here:

Equol an isoflavonoid: potential for improved prostate health, in vitro and in vivoevidence - Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology

http://www.rbej.com/content/9/1/4/

Background To determine: in vitro binding affinity of equol for 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT), in vitro effects of equol treatment in human prostate cancer (LNCap) cells, and in vivo effects of equol on rat prostate weight and circulating levels of sex steroid hormones. Methods First, in vitro equol binding affinity for 5alpha-DHT was determined using 14C5alpha-DHT combined with cold 5alpha-DHT (3.0 nM in all samples). These steroids were incubated with increasing concentrations of equol (0-2,000 nM) and analyzed by Sephadex LH-20 column chromatography. 14C5alpha-DHT peak/profiles were determined by scintillation counting of column fractions. Using the 14C5alpha-DHT peak (0 nM equol) as a reference standard, a binding curve was generated by quantifying shifts in the 14C5alpha-DHT peaks as equol concentrations increased. Second, equol's in vitro effects on LNCap cells were determined by culturing cells (48 hours) in the presence of increasing concentrations of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) (vehicle-control), 5alpha-DHT, equol or 5alpha-DHT+equol. Following culture, prostate specific antigen (PSA) levels were quantified via ELISA. Finally, the in vivo effects of equol were tested in sixteen male Long-Evans rats fed a low isoflavone diet. From 190-215 days, animals received 0.1cc s.c. injections of either DMSO-control vehicle (n = 8) or 1.0 mg/kg (body weight) of equol (in DMSO) (n = 8). At 215 days, body and prostate weights were recorded, trunk blood was collected and serum assayed for luteinizing hormone (LH), 5alpha-DHT, testosterone and 17beta-estradiol levels. Results Maximum and half maximal equol binding to 5alpha-DHT occurred at approximately 100 nM and 4.8 nM respectively. LNCap cells cultured in the presence of 5alpha-DHT significantly increased PSA levels. However, in the presence of 5alpha-DHT+equol, equol blocked the significant increases in PSA levels from LNCap cells. In vivo equol treatment significantly decreased rat prostate weights and serum 5alpha-DHT levels but did not alter LH, testosterone, and estradiol levels. Conclusions Equol administration appears to have potential beneficial effects for prostate health and other 5alpha-DHT mediated disorders. Equol administration: reduces PSA levels from LNCap cells under 5alpha-DHT stimulation, decreases rat prostate size, decreases serum 5alpha-DHT levels and androgen hormone action, while not altering other circulating sex steroids or LH levels.

do you really need pictures to show what would happen to your hair once you block DHT?

**yeahyeahyeah** · 07-21-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by 2020

it binds to DHT without any side effects as proven here:

Equol an isoflavonoid: potential for improved prostate health, in vitro and in vivoevidence - Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology

http://www.rbej.com/content/9/1/4/

Background To determine: in vitro binding affinity of equol for 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT), in vitro effects of equol treatment in human prostate cancer (LNCap) cells, and in vivo effects of equol on rat prostate weight and circulating levels of sex steroid hormones. Methods First, in vitro equol binding affinity for 5alpha-DHT was determined using 14C5alpha-DHT combined with cold 5alpha-DHT (3.0 nM in all samples). These steroids were incubated with increasing concentrations of equol (0-2,000 nM) and analyzed by Sephadex LH-20 column chromatography. 14C5alpha-DHT peak/profiles were determined by scintillation counting of column fractions. Using the 14C5alpha-DHT peak (0 nM equol) as a reference standard, a binding curve was generated by quantifying shifts in the 14C5alpha-DHT peaks as equol concentrations increased. Second, equol's in vitro effects on LNCap cells were determined by culturing cells (48 hours) in the presence of increasing concentrations of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) (vehicle-control), 5alpha-DHT, equol or 5alpha-DHT+equol. Following culture, prostate specific antigen (PSA) levels were quantified via ELISA. Finally, the in vivo effects of equol were tested in sixteen male Long-Evans rats fed a low isoflavone diet. From 190-215 days, animals received 0.1cc s.c. injections of either DMSO-control vehicle (n = 8) or 1.0 mg/kg (body weight) of equol (in DMSO) (n = 8). At 215 days, body and prostate weights were recorded, trunk blood was collected and serum assayed for luteinizing hormone (LH), 5alpha-DHT, testosterone and 17beta-estradiol levels. Results Maximum and half maximal equol binding to 5alpha-DHT occurred at approximately 100 nM and 4.8 nM respectively. LNCap cells cultured in the presence of 5alpha-DHT significantly increased PSA levels. However, in the presence of 5alpha-DHT+equol, equol blocked the significant increases in PSA levels from LNCap cells. In vivo equol treatment significantly decreased rat prostate weights and serum 5alpha-DHT levels but did not alter LH, testosterone, and estradiol levels. Conclusions Equol administration appears to have potential beneficial effects for prostate health and other 5alpha-DHT mediated disorders. Equol administration: reduces PSA levels from LNCap cells under 5alpha-DHT stimulation, decreases rat prostate size, decreases serum 5alpha-DHT levels and androgen hormone action, while not altering other circulating sex steroids or LH levels.

do you really need pictures to show what would happen to your hair once you block DHT?

If it is so good, why dont you find the money and buy the product

**2020** · 07-21-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by yeahyeahyeah

If it is so good, why dont you find the money and buy the product

will do very soon...

**Dazza** · 07-21-2012, 01:14 PM

How expensive is this stuff? Where is this drug being sold. My google search sent me into hair forums lol.

Also question, say this stuff worked, if you remove the DHT from those areas would hair fully return? Or are some hair follicles too damaged and need a boost? Say with a hair growth topical?

**neversaynever** · 07-21-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by PatientlyWaiting

Once again, just like TRX2, no before and after pictures, just a whole lot of articles and promises. But no results. And people still buy it. You guys are amazing.

Hey why don't you guys also try Procerin while you're at it? Lol.

Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Procerin-Tablets-Supplement-bottles-tablets/dp/B000F49F7U

Ingredients
Saw Palmetto Berries, Gotu Kola, Nettles, Magnesium, Zinc Sulfate, Eleuthero Root, Vitamin B-6, Pumpkin Seed Meal, and Muira Puma Root.

Ahhh damn. Youre right. Pumpkin seeds dont work, so equol must also not work. Damn!

**neversaynever** · 07-21-2012, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by 2020

ha... that's the thing - it's DOSE DEPENDENT. the more you take, the more DHT it binds to. I'm sure there exists a dose where it would block 100% of DHT.
Can you say the same about fin or dut?

Big Pharma should be interested in this...

Ive not read anything that indicates equol dosing is linear.

**2020** · 07-21-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by neversaynever

Ive not read anything that indicates equol dosing is linear.

more equol -> more effective

**thechamp** · 07-21-2012, 05:28 PM

Propecia vs eqoul

The problem fin works proven results but alot of us get sides,equol not proven to work with results true?

Equol

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